The Joe trade smells of an implosion here and a Dynasty in NJ.

[Plainview1981]

It's misleading to say that NJ will trade if they can't seem to get D-12.I think the opposite is true.They trade:Petro, Jordan, Morrow and Wallace for Joe.Then send Brooks, Humphries, and Lopez to Orlando for D-12...Then they resign Deron..and they got instant Big 3.Deron, Joe, and Dwight.That multiple fronts statement says to me that they may even figure a way to get Josh.Us trading Joe tells me that Ferry wants to start from scratch.I'm not against that if we get something worth getting... Some draft picks... and we leave only Teague and Horf.Bottom line is that we're going to suck. Many of you will see again that we can't draw FAs...

This team can't draw free agents now. They can't even sign free agents. They can't do anything hardly. Joe has become Allen Houston. His boards and playmaking skills are only getting worse. This is going to end how I suspected it would end 3 or 4 years ago. After about 1 more season I think you will see a steep decline in Joe's game. This franchise rode him hard while the team won 30 games. His career is going to go the way of Michael Finley. Despite my trashing Joe all of these years, I understand your position. But this is going to be the outcome no matter if it happens this year or in 3 years.It's not all of Joe's fault by any means. Honestly, he didn't doom this franchise. The drafting of Marvin and Shelden Williams put a huge limit on this teams potential. It's sad, but it's true.

[Plainview1981]

I think when you have a big 3 of Big Dog, Reef and Apple turnover Terry while being over the cap and only winning 30 games a season, THATS WHEN YOU BLOW IT UP. When you are where we are you need to make smart trades that get good players in return.

Can they do anything that will make a major difference in this franchise without getting rid of Joe? Not seeing it.I will say this... This does put us into another position of putting another franchise over the top. A trio of Howard, Williams and Joe could be really good for a couple of years before Joe drops off. It's possible that we could be boosting another franchise to a finals level. Like we did with Philly and Detroit. After the initial excitement of getting rid of Joe does wear off I have to admit that I don't love making this happen. Edited July 1, 2012 by Hotlanta1981

[Joker]

í kind of laughed when hots said michael finley. Naw hots, finley lost his athleticism while joe's personnel just got worse and worse and worse. Most of joe's decline is due to what's around him in atlanta.

[Joker]

Can they do anything that will make a major difference in this franchise without getting rid of Joe? Not seeing it.

Playmaking pg. Getting rid of the redundancy between josh smith and al horford. More depth Edited July 1, 2012 by Joker

[Plainview1981]

í kind of laughed when hots said michael finley. Naw hots, finley lost his athleticism while joe's personnel just got worse and worse and worse. Most of joe's decline is due to what's around him in atlanta.

How has Joe's Personal got worse? This team is at the same level it's been at for 3 years.

[willthepureshooter]

It will cripple us for years to come.. Ferry will tear this franchise apart. We're getting close to cracking a finals appearance, there's no need to trade a valuable piece. Ask him to take a freaking pay cut!!!!!

[Plainview1981]

Playmaking pg. Getting rid of the redundancy between josh smith and al horford. More depth

There is nothing that can be done with this core that will get this team at a finals level. Joe has a year or two before he is pushing role player status. You can't put a finals team around Joe Johnson. He isn't that good and he never was.

[thecampster]

í kind of laughed when hots said michael finley. Naw hots, finley lost his athleticism while joe's personnel just got worse and worse and worse. Most of joe's decline is due to what's around him in atlanta.

Okay, this is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard said on the squawk in all my time of visiting here. Added to the squad in Joe's time here.Smith (2nd year)HorfordPachulia (first year)CrawfordTeagueBibbyMarvin (1st year)NBA starter on the roster year 1 - Al Harrington.Joe did not build this house. Smith, Horford, Williams and cast's improvement did.Remember we lost 13 the year before Joe, we won 26 the next year but we also moved Josh to the starting lineup, added Marvin (8.5, 4.9), Zaza (11.7 and 7.9) the same year replacing nothing of value. We sucked the next year and the following year until we added Bibby. Joe is not a requirement to win here.

[Plainview1981]

Okay, this is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard said on the squawk in all my time of visiting here. Added to the squad in Joe's time here.Smith (2nd year)HorfordPachulia (first year)CrawfordTeagueBibbyMarvin (1st year)NBA starter on the roster year 1 - Al Harrington.Joe did not build this house. Smith, Horford, Williams and cast's improvement did.Remember we lost 13 the year before Joe, we won 26 the next year but we also moved Josh to the starting lineup, added Marvin (8.5, 4.9), Zaza (11.7 and 7.9) the same year replacing nothing of value. We sucked the next year and the following year until we added Bibby. Joe is not a requirement to win here.

Joe's production has fallen off as this team has got better. Yes, the team lost Crawford last year and Bibby is gone. All Bibby did his last year and a half was bring the ball up court and shoot 3's. Bibby's playmaking skills severely dropped off after about a full seasons worth of games here.

[willthepureshooter]

Okay, this is by far the stupidest thing I've ever heard said on the squawk in all my time of visiting here. Added to the squad in Joe's time here.Smith (2nd year)HorfordPachulia (first year)CrawfordTeagueBibbyMarvin (1st year)NBA starter on the roster year 1 - Al Harrington.Joe did not build this house. Smith, Horford, Williams and cast's improvement did.Remember we lost 13 the year before Joe, we won 26 the next year but we also moved Josh to the starting lineup, added Marvin (8.5, 4.9), Zaza (11.7 and 7.9) the same year replacing nothing of value. We sucked the next year and the following year until we added Bibby. Joe is not a requirement to win here.

Cmon man! Lol! So you're telling us that Joe doesn't demand double and triple teams. Or the fact that he's been in the top 10 in clutch shooting for the last couple years. Top 5 this year.... You take Joe off this team and you will see the difference. Teague is the only player on the team that create his own shot.

[chuck15]

im sorry but blowing it up and restarting with JT and Al is not the way. if we're to blow it up get rid of everybody. get back in the lottery and lets rebuild. but all this chatter of Al being a cornerstone is garbage. he's good but he's just a piece he's no franchise.

[Diesel]

This team can't draw free agents now. They can't even sign free agents. They can't do anything hardly. Joe has become Allen Houston. His boards and playmaking skills are only getting worse. This is going to end how I suspected it would end 3 or 4 years ago. After about 1 more season I think you will see a steep decline in Joe's game. This franchise rode him hard while the team won 30 games. His career is going to go the way of Michael Finley. Despite my trashing Joe all of these years, I understand your position. But this is going to be the outcome no matter if it happens this year or in 3 years.It's not all of Joe's fault by any means. Honestly, he didn't doom this franchise. The drafting of Marvin and Shelden Williams put a huge limit on this teams potential. It's sad, but it's true.

The problem is not Joe's contract. Joe's contract is not even comparable in money to the big three's contract... pick any big three you want. The problem is when you sign guys like Marvin for 8 million and Hinrich for 10.. The point is that Joe.. on the court is still one of the best players in the game. You say... watch he will decline. Well, he hasn't declined yet.So in essence, those for this trade are saying..Let's just take ourselves out of contention so that we can have capspace?What's capspace when you can't draw good FAs?

[thecampster]

The point is that Joe.. on the court is still one of the best players in the game. You say... watch he will decline. Well, he hasn't declined yet.

There's a reason they call it silly season.

Joe Johnson 2005-2006

25ppg, 4.2rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.1 spg

2011-2012

18.8ppg, 3.7rpg, 3.9apg, .8 spg

Joe Johnson PER 2011-2012 - qualified players.

18.5 - 56th in the NBA. 5th among SG. 3 per above Gerald Green and Tony Allen.

Joe doesn't suck but when you try and justify a 20 million dollar contract for the 56th rated player...you are reaching. By your logic, Gerald Green is worth 16 million.

[Diesel]

There's a reason they call it silly season.Joe Johnson 2005-200625ppg, 4.2rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.1 spg2011-201218.8ppg, 3.7rpg, 3.9apg, .8 spgJoe Johnson PER 2011-2012 - qualified players.18.5 - 56th in the NBA. 5th among SG. 3 per above Gerald Green and Tony Allen.Joe doesn't suck but when you try and justify a 20 million dollar contract for the 56th rated player...you are reaching. By your logic, Gerald Green is worth 16 million.

That's the thing. There's no reason to try to justify salary in the NBA. That's a losing cause all the way around. Could you justify Dirk's Salary last year? How about KG's? Most of the time in the nba, you don't pay a guy because it's his true worth. Most of the time, you pay a guy because you need to hold on to him because he's worth that to the team. Most of the time, you pay a guy because the market (at that time) set his price there. Lastly, there's no evaluative stats that tells you without a doubt the worth of a player to his team. Last year, Joe had one of the more efficient seasons that he has had as a pro. He didn't score as much and he gave room for other guys to score. Most players as they get older determine that the team can't win if I take every shot. For you to sit here and try to make a team game and play on the court about salary is funny.So I guess you want a Ball hogging take every shot Joe??Maybe you can use that thinking to max out SMoove when Joe's gone.

[EazyRoc]

He is reaching no doubt and definitely isn't one of the best in the game. There are quite a few wingmen out there who are better on the court and a much better value. The fact is Joes contract has us in a bad position. We have no depth and will not have any with so much money committed to a player who is nowhere near as effective as he was. If this.was.2008 or so,.I think it would be foolish to trade him, but his game isn't what it used to be. He performs horribly in the playoffs and he is due $88 million for the next 4 years.

[Joker]

Hots and camp, since he signed the new deal, our personnal is worse go from a real pg to a lou williams and bobby jackson type. Go from jamal to willie green. Just those two players made a big difference and joe was even more efficent last year. Joe is not the problem. The lack of a playmaking pg, more true center depth and I don't consider guys like collins depth and a lack of balance in the starting five is the issue.

[EazyRoc]

Joe is a streaky inconsistent player. Other than the month or so when he plays spectacular, he is rather underwhelming. It's even worse in the playoffs.

[Diesel]

He is reaching no doubt and definitely isn't one of the best in the game. There are quite a few wingmen out there who are better on the court and a much better value. The fact is Joes contract has us in a bad position. We have no depth and will not have any with so much money committed to a player who is nowhere near as effective as he was. If this.was.2008 or so,.I think it would be foolish to trade him, but his game isn't what it used to be. He performs horribly in the playoffs and he is due $88 million for the next 4 years.

OK... You will see. If you read the title of my post I said implosion here and Dynasty in Brooklyn. What will we do when we are in the same conference as Miami's big three and Deron, Johnson, and D-12 in Brooklyn? Not to mention Boston?We will never make it to the finals at this rate. We'll be a feeder team with capspace.A team for FAs to use to get better contracts.I wanna wait til I see the whole deal laid out.. However, I can see how they would trade us some of their undesirables. Trade Orlando Lopez and picks for D-12. Then resign Deron (Bird Rights) and have a monster in Brooklyn. I guess the first trade has to be for D-12 because Hennigan is not stupid enough to hand Brooklyn a dynasty. We would.

[EazyRoc]

In another thread, Ive stated I wouldn't do this trade now that Dwight has come with new demands for a trade to the Nets.

[Plainview1981]

The problem is not Joe's contract. Joe's contract is not even comparable in money to the big three's contract... pick any big three you want. The problem is when you sign guys like Marvin for 8 million and Hinrich for 10.. The point is that Joe.. on the court is still one of the best players in the game. You say... watch he will decline. Well, he hasn't declined yet.So in essence, those for this trade are saying..Let's just take ourselves out of contention so that we can have capspace?What's capspace when you can't draw good FAs?

Contention? This team lost in the first round. They lost in the first round to a team that is full of players that are past their prime. This team took Boston to 7 games 4 years ago when they were younger and better. This year they lost in 6 to a much older team in which Ray Allen either didn't play or didn't play that well when he did play. PP was on and off. Boston had no bench production to speak of. This team even lost in the game in which Rondo didn't play.As for Joe... This guy hasn't performed well in the playoffs basically his entire career. You think it would be different next year? Not likely. I seriously doubt he will start performing in the playoffs at 32-33 years old. Joe is on the decline already. His rebounding is pathetic now for instance. It's getting more and more to the point to where if his jumper is off he is crap. The returns isn't worth the price tag.