How far can this team go?

[Wretch]

Very good post.I'll add this. If you DON'T have that type of player, you need to be the type of defensive team that can continuously get stops to keep the game from getting out of hand. But even at that point, you need a guy who can make big shots at critical times.Game 5 of the Bulls series ( 2011 ) in Chicago.Hawks are going toe to toe with the Bulls going into the 4th, down by 1 ( 69 - 68 ). An absolutely spectacular 3rd quarter by Teague has gotten us right back in the game. If we win, we have a Game 6 on our home floor to close out the series and get to the EC Finals. Teague makes a lay-up to put us up 70 - 69 to start the 4th, and I have hope that we might pull off the impossible.Then the Bulls promptly go on a 9 - 0 run in a 3 minute span to put them up by 8.That gives them enough cushion to win the game. In that 3 minute run, Derrick Rose is literally responsible for 8 of the 9 points ( 4 points of his own, and 2 assists to others ). Rose would go on to score 11 points in the quarter and dish out 3 assists, and score 33 points for the game.Meanwhile, JJ only scored 4 points on ( 2 - 5 FG ) and only has 15 total points for the game. Teague was our leading scorer with 5 points in the quarter and dropped in 21 points. Smith was decent with 16 points, but missed all 3 of his 4th quarter shots. Al got a modest double-double with 12 pts and 10 rebs, but he also was a non factor in that 4th quarter, with only 2 points. Jamal goes scoreless for the final 3 quarters of that game and only scores 2 points total on 1 - 9 FG.In all, the Hawks get outscored 26 - 15 in the 4th, and we lose by 12.The difference between good teams and championship teams, is that they have at least one guy who can and WILL get it done with the game on the line. And everybody on his team ( and on the opposing team ) knows it. So the only way you can counter that ( most of the time ) is with a guy of your own who can match him shot for shot ( ala Dominique vs Bird in 1988 ).Until a team gets that type of player, their only hope is the Detroit Model of 2003, in which stellar defense keeps them in the game at almost all times. But even THAT TEAM had 2 huge clutch shotmakers in the form of Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton.So you look at what happened last night vs Miami. Everything was going back and forth like a good heavyweight fight, until the 2 Heat superstars took over the game. Wade had 10 points in that 3rd quarter. But he scored 8 of that 10 points in the middle of that 17 - 4 run by the Heat that blew the game open. Lebron was the playmaker, having 3 assists, including the big one to Battier for that 3.The NBA is definitely a game of runs. And if you don't have the offensive firepower to get you back into a game, you have to stay solid with your defense and don't turn the ball over.As far as how far can we go . . it depends on the matchups. We haven't played New York or Boston or Brooklyn or Chicago yet. We've lost to Miami twice, although competitive in both games. Who knows how Philly will look if and when they get Bynum back. We've looked great against the elite of the Western Conference. Hopefully that will translate to the East elite, when we get into the meat of our EC schedule beginning in January.

Man...I can't even add anything to that. Just...yeah.

Exactly....

[coachx]

but at some point, somebody in our organization has to realize we need a better engine to go further. Shame really. Because this team is one special player away from being serious.

Excellent post Wretch. I was saying "A-Men" to every line until I got to your closing paragraph.Every team wants a top 10 player...........or top 5 player.............or the best player. If it were only as simple as simply "realizing" that for one to fall in your lap.Ferry has gone from 2 untradeable contracts and no cap space...to tons of cap space and two 1st round picks next year. Safe to say Ferry "realizes" your point. Finding a dance partner is a different realization though. I do have more faith that Ferry can pull it off then I did with BK or RS.........heck what he has done in a few months on the job is pretty impressive.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

but at some point, somebody in our organization has to realize we need a better engine to go further. Shame really. Because this team is one special player away from being serious.Excellent post Wretch. I was saying "A-Men" to every line until I got to your closing paragraph.Every team wants a top 10 player...........or top 5 player.............or the best player. If it were only as simple as simply "realizing" that for one to fall in your lap.Ferry has gone from 2 untradeable contracts and no cap space...to tons of cap space and two 1st round picks next year. Safe to say Ferry "realizes" your point. Finding a dance partner is a different realization though. I do have more faith that Ferry can pull it off then I did with BK or RS.........heck what he has done in a few months on the job is pretty impressive.

IFWT. That's all we can do. I believe Ferry and the ASG wants to build something special and I believe Josh understands that. We all know who DF and Smoove want next offseason and with Jenkins and Scott showing good things of late, it makes me that more pumped to see who DF goes after with our two 1st in the draft. Very possible he pulls a Dimitroff and trades those picks to move up in the draft to get us a big time talent. If DF pulls off bringing in Dwight, resigning Josh, Korver, Teague, Morrow (maybe), & Pachulia, and gets a great talent out of the draft along with the pieces already in place (Horford, Williams, Jenkins, Scott, Ivan, and maybe Deshawn), we could be a contender for YEARS to come...Our 2013 Hawks would then be:C - Dwight HowardPF - Al HorfordSF - Josh SmithSG - Kyle KorverPG - Jeff TeagueG - Lou WilliamsC - Zaza PachuliaSG - John JenkinsF - Mike ScottF/C - Ivan JohnsonG/F - Deshawn StevensonG/F - Anthony Morrow??? - 2013 1st Round Pick (hopefully a 6'7" - 6'9" athletic wingman)That sir is a winner that ALL of Atlanta would pack the Philips to see. Man, oh man!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MrMeltdown]

Dwight Howard is not packing Phillips. Lebron and D Wade don't even pack that arena. Things would definitely improve but as far as sellout after sellout it is not happening. Not the place for that

[coachx]

IFWT. That's all we can do

What is IFTW ? I googled and got stuff that makes no sense.

Install From The Web * IFTW Intelligence for the Warfighter * IFTW International Film and Television Workshops (Maine) Install From The Web * IFTW Intelligence for the Warfighter * IFTW International Film and Television Workshops (Maine)

[HawkItus]

What is IFTW ? I googled and got stuff that makes no sense.

Install From The Web * IFTW Intelligence for the Warfighter * IFTW International Film and Television Workshops (Maine) Install From The Web * IFTW Intelligence for the Warfighter * IFTW International Film and Television Workshops (Maine)

IFWT I think means In Ferry We Trust

[Wretch]

Excellent post Wretch. I was saying "A-Men" to every line until I got to your closing paragraph. Every team wants a top 10 player...........or top 5 player.............or the best player. If it were only as simple as simply "realizing" that for one to fall in your lap. Ferry has gone from 2 untradeable contracts and no cap space...to tons of cap space and two 1st round picks next year. Safe to say Ferry "realizes" your point. Finding a dance partner is a different realization though. I do have more faith that Ferry can pull it off then I did with BK or RS.........heck what he has done in a few months on the job is pretty impressive.

Danny Ferry...

Let me first say that I not a critic of Danny Ferry. I applaud him for what he has done. But to say that he has the right vision for the franchise based upon two moves is premature. In fact, saying that the JJ trade is evidence that he "realizes" what is wrong here is like saying BK knew how to draft because he took Josh Smith when he fell into his lap. Eerily similar actually, given that SOO many people were praising him for...simply clearing the slate.

Give each GM credit for doing their job, but who DOESN'T take Josh Smith, for Atlanta, in that position and who DOESN'T pull the trigger on that JJ (or Marvin) trade? He did his work and cleared Joe and Marvin and nobody was happier about reshaping the team that I was (I wanted it done 2 1/2 seasons ago), but I'm not going to jump for joy just yet. I am cautiously optimistic...but I'm waiting for something.

Josh Smith and Al Horford...

The question still remains as to how Ferry sees these two and what the goal is. Of course everybody wants a top player, but honestly...what are we saying here? There's nothing more to add. Because...that's like saying everybody wants a job. For me, the conversation stops right there. It is the single most important aspect of this team that must be addressed. Everybody wants a top player and we NEED one.

Does he see either of our frontcourt guys as an answer to the special talent that other teams have? Is he trying to build around Josh Smith? Are we trying to build a "Detroit Model" type of team? If the answer to any of those questions is "yes", then we have a problem. We have seen the result of that sort of building, year after year. Don't tell me that he "gets it", because I have seen different managers during different eras do exactly the opposite of what it takes to build a true contender. We have all seen GM's make head scratching decisions. There is no indication that Ferry is a Babcock anymore than there is indication that he is a Kupchak.

He's done a good job. I have no criticism of him and it would be ridiculous for me to do that at such an early stage in his tenure. His first season is BARELY underway. I am a bit confused as to what his ultimate plan is though. I know that Josh still runs around on that court like this is his team. True, it's not Ferry's job to coach the team...but what kind of message are you sending to the fans when you continue to watch a player like Josh do these things with the ball. Things that simply...don't help us. At all.

Is this your guy?

If not...then how do you rectify that? Do you bring in an alpha (special talent) and get him in check? Do you change the coach and tell this guy to make him play the right way? Do you have a sit down with him and tell him, "Look...that's not your game. That's not what we need from you." Do you have a sit down with the current coach and say, "Get him to understand his role or bench him."

Do you...trade him?

Or do you believe...that the answer to our ability to respond to the ELITE PUNCHES that we are going to get...are in Josh Smith (or Al Horford for that matter)? If you believe that, then there's no need to answer any of the aforementioned questions and no cause to share my concern over what management "realizes."

I'm not sure if you took it as a criticism of Danny Ferry, but it's not. I'm just beyond the tweaking and the fiddling around with lateral moves. I'm tired of the way people downplay the importance of having a franchise talent. I hear the same frustration...

"What are we gonna do? Win the lottery and draft Michael Jordan?"

"So what...? Trade Josh Smith for Dwight Howard?"

"You think we should trade an All-Star big man for an unproven [insert type of player]?"

"Just give up the season and tank it all...just to [insert variant rebuilding plan]?"

You either believe that this team and one of our talents can respond in a way that we have not been able to in nearly 30 years...or you believe that something has to give. All other questions and concerns are irrelevant. if you subscribe to the former opinion, then I guess you can be content with a 1st or 2nd round disappointment. If you subscribe to the latter, then a light bulb should pop on in your head...and you should be able to look at this team and see the reality of our situation.

I am VERY curious to see what this team looks like after the deadline. I am closely watching Smoove's game this year and I'm curious as to what we're going to do with his contract in the offseason. That will tell me much about what Ferry realizes.

Again, I'm not criticizing him. Not at all. Far from it. I'm just saying...something different needs to happen here with our personnel moves (on the court, in the draft, and with our coaching). Something that I haven't seen in a very long time here.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Danny Ferry... Let me first say that I not a critic of Danny Ferry. I applaud him for what he has done. But to say that he has the right vision for the franchise based upon two moves is premature. In fact, saying that the JJ trade is evidence that he "realizes" what is wrong here is like saying BK knew how to draft because he took Josh Smith when he fell into his lap. Eerily similar actually, given that SOO many people were praising him for...simply clearing the slate. Give each GM credit for doing their job, but who DOESN'T take Josh Smith, for Atlanta, in that position and who DOESN'T pull the trigger on that JJ (or Marvin) trade? He did his work and cleared Joe and Marvin and nobody was happier about reshaping the team that I was (I wanted it done 2 1/2 seasons ago), but I'm not going to jump for joy just yet. I am cautiously optimistic...but I'm waiting for something. Josh Smith and Al Horford... The question still remains as to how Ferry sees these two and what the goal is. Of course everybody wants a top player, but honestly...what are we saying here? There's nothing more to add. Because...that's like saying everybody wants a job. For me, the conversation stops right there. It is the single most important aspect of this team that must be addressed. Everybody wants a top player and we NEED one. Does he see either of our frontcourt guys as an answer to the special talent that other teams have? Is he trying to build around Josh Smith? Are we trying to build a "Detroit Model" type of team? If the answer to any of those questions is "yes", then we have a problem. We have seen the result of that sort of building, year after year. Don't tell me that he "gets it", because I have seen different managers during different eras do exactly the opposite of what it takes to build a true contender. We have all seen GM's make head scratching decisions. There is no indication that Ferry is a Babcock anymore than there is indication that he is a Kupchak. He's done a good job. I have no criticism of him and it would be ridiculous for me to do that at such an early stage in his tenure. His first season is BARELY underway. I am a bit confused as to what his ultimate plan is though. I know that Josh still runs around on that court like this is his team. True, it's not Ferry's job to coach the team...but what kind of message are you sending to the fans when you continue to watch a player like Josh do these things with the ball. Things that simply...don't help us. At all. Is this your guy? If not...then how do you rectify that? Do you bring in an alpha (special talent) and get him in check? Do you change the coach and tell this guy to make him play the right way? Do you have a sit down with him and tell him, "Look...that's not your game. That's not what we need from you." Do you have a sit down with the current coach and say, "Get him to understand his role or bench him." Do you...trade him? Or do you believe...that the answer to our ability to respond to the ELITE PUNCHES that we are going to get...are in Josh Smith (or Al Horford for that matter)? If you believe that, then there's no need to answer any of the aforementioned questions and no cause to share my concern over what management "realizes." I'm not sure if you took it as a criticism of Danny Ferry, but it's not. I'm just beyond the tweaking and the fiddling around with lateral moves. I'm tired of the way people downplay the importance of having a franchise talent. I hear the same frustration... "What are we gonna do? Win the lottery and draft Michael Jordan?" "So what...? Trade Josh Smith for Dwight Howard?" "You think we should trade an All-Star big man for an unproven [insert type of player]?" "Just give up the season and tank it all...just to [insert variant rebuilding plan]?" You either believe that this team and one of our talents can respond in a way that we have not been able to in nearly 30 years...or you believe that something has to give. All other questions and concerns are irrelevant. if you subscribe to the former opinion, then I guess you can be content with a 1st or 2nd round disappointment. If you subscribe to the latter, then a light bulb should pop on in your head...and you should be able to look at this team and see the reality of our situation. I am VERY curious to see what this team looks like after the deadline. I am closely watching Smoove's game this year and I'm curious as to what we're going to do with his contract in the offseason. That will tell me much about what Ferry realizes. Again, I'm not criticizing him. Not at all. Far from it. I'm just saying...something different needs to happen here with our personnel moves (on the court, in the draft, and with our coaching). Something that I haven't seen in a very long time here. ************************************* MY REPLY: ( quote button not working right ) Or in other words . . . . As good as this team is playing right now, it still may come down to whether to trade Al or Josh + picks for a better, superstar like player that can get us to a place where this franchise has never been ( in Atlanta ). I mean, most fans wouldn't mind a complete implosion out in LA, so as to sour Dwight on being a future Laker. At that point, MAYBE he considers ATL over everywhere else. But if that doesn't happen, what is Ferry's "plan"? All of the young stars will be locked up by their current teams. And most of the older stars already have megabuck contracts with their current team. It'll be interesting to see what Ferry's "plan" will be, if Dwight doesn't fall right into his lap. And it will be interesting to see how this fan base will react, if this current team plays well above their heads and reaches the EC Finals . . . or if they get bounced out in the 1st round.

Edited December 12, 2012 by northcyde

[Wretch]

MY REPLY: ( quote button not working right )

Or in other words . . . . As good as this team is playing right now, it still may come down to whether to trade Al or Josh + picks for a better, superstar like player that can get us to a place where this franchise has never been ( in Atlanta ).

I mean, most fans wouldn't mind a complete implosion out in LA, so as to sour Dwight on being a future Laker. At that point, MAYBE he considers ATL over everywhere else. But if that doesn't happen, what is Ferry's "plan"? All of the young stars will be locked up by their current teams. And most of the older stars already have megabuck contracts with their current team.

It'll be interesting to see what Ferry's "plan" will be, if Dwight doesn't fall right into his lap. And it will be interesting to see how this fan base will react, if this current team plays well above their heads and reaches the EC Finals . . . or if they get bounced out in the 1st round.

Yeah...

And it's funny, because that has been a lingering subject for years now. Will this forward tandem work? All bullshit aside, what is your answer to these teams? What is your answer to the better players in the league making these shots when it counts?

Josh Smith posted up? Josh Smith for a fadeaway or a 3? Al Horford posting up or facing up?

If that's the answer, I guess there's nothing else to talk about y'know... If the answer is, no...we need a better plan... Then what is it? Josh doesn't give a damn about the other end of the court. He's focused on being the main cog of this team. And it's like...we're still allowing him to be that player or expecting him to rise. He can be our main guy, but it can't be on the offensive end. He just doesn't have the game for that. Outside of that jumper, neither does Al.

This is what encourages me:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgyT9LPTVhk

I would really like to see the focus of the offense shift to Teague/Horford. Pick and roll, drive and kick, pick and pop. With Josh being a complimentary guy, putting up around 12-15 ppg. Anything more than that means more shot attempts and more opportunities for wasted trips. I'd like to see more of both of those guys being fed as they move without the ball.

As much as I talk about offense though, defense is really my thing. My favorite kind of guards are the speedy and pesky perimeter defenders like Mookie. I love long and lanky SF's that defend like Pippen. I like brusing PF's that put up like 10 points and 20 rebounds...lol. I like centers like Tyson Chandler, Joakim Noah, Ratliff (when he was healthy), and Mutombo.

I'm not a guy with stars in his eyes that wants to see LeBron and Kobe...in fact, I have never driven up to ATL to see any player like that. Not in 30 years. Not once. I spend $200-$300 to go see THIS team play LAME teams. Always...because I'm a Hawks fan first and because secondly, those kinds of players are not the part of the game that I enjoy the most.

That should tell you guys something about what I'm saying here...

Nothing would make me happier than to see a bruising Detroit model here... I'd be in heaven. But history doesn't favor a team without a special talent. There has to be some kind of answer for us on the other end of the court, I don't think we have it, and I think you do whatever it takes to secure it.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Wretch

[Wretch]

(Edit for the wrong vid - turn the volume down BTW...that song is...not the best for this kind of video, lol)