Does Ferry / Budz see Jenkins as a starting SG?

[Admin]

Given the quality of stars Houston has had over that time period, I do not see a wide gap. Four out of ten seasons we were within 500 fans of each other. That is only 6 fans per game over a forty home game season.

Give us TMac and Yao and the gap would be much smaller.

No it's not a huge gap but you gotta consider too that it's a major PITA to get to a Rockets game due to traffic and Houston being the most spread out major city in the country. Most fans who would go see games don't live in the area of the city where the arena is, they live way out in the suburbs, which is generally 30 minutes to an hour away and that's in good traffic. Try catching a 6:30-7 game when you get off of work at 5 and get home and then turn around and drive back, it's just not happening. I can't speak to the situation in Atlanta, which may be bad as well, but it can't be any worse than Houston.

The bottom line is that superstar or no superstar the fan support has been pretty much in the same level for them, just as it's been for the Hawks. The difference is the Hawks have been a little worse and I will also say that you'll never see the Toyota Center packed with local "fans" cheering on the opposing team so those types of fans are also skewing the numbers some.

[Buzzard]

2013 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 15,125 (80.8%)

Houston - 16,672 (92.4%)

2012 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 15,199 (81.2%)

Houston - 15,363 (85.1%)

2011 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 15,648 (83.6%)

Houston - 16,191 (89.7%)

2010 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 16,545 (88.3%)

Houston - 16,528 (91.6%) - technically Houston had a higher percentage but I'll give this one to Atlanta

2009 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 16,748 (89.4%)

Houston - 17,482 (96.9%)

2008 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 16,280 (--)

Houston - 17,524 (94.7%)

2007 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 15,594 (--)

Houston - 16,545 (89.4%)

2006 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 15,071 (--)

Houston - 15,514 (83.9%)

2005 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 14,302 (--)

Houston - 16,181 (87.5%)

2004 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 13,798 (--)

Houston - 15,629 (84.5%)

2003 Avg Home Attendance

Atlanta - 12,894 (--)

Houston - 13,784 (84.5%)

So in 1 year out of the last 10 the Hawks drew more people per game, by a whopping 17. Every other year the Rockets beat the Hawks and every single year the Rockets beat the Hawks in percentage of capacity of the building. You can deny that means anything but it flat out means that the Rockets came closer to fulfilling the expectations of the arena than the Hawks did.

So please Mace and Leadership, tell me again about these facts of how Atlanta has better fan support? Oh I know you're gonna go to hypotheticals about the Rockets have the better star players but even in the years 2009-2012 when Atlanta had the far better and more well known players the Rockets still consistently had better fan support.

Four of these seasons we were within 500 fans. That is only 6 fans per game over a 40 game home season. Give us TMac and Yao and the gap would much smaller with several season in our favor.

[Admin]

Four of these seasons we were within 500 fans. That is only 6 fans per game over a 40 game home season. Give us TMac and Yao and the gap would much smaller with several season in our favor.

That's not total attendance for the season, that's an average per game. But you'll notice that the numbers didn't fluctuate a whole lot in the years when they didn't have Yao and T-Mac or when those bums were injured and fans didn't have a very good team to cheer for.

[Buzzard]

No it's not a huge gap but you gotta consider too that it's a major PITA to get to a Rockets game due to traffic and Houston being the most spread out major city in the country. Most fans who would go see games don't live in the area of the city where the arena is, they live way out in the suburbs, which is generally 30 minutes to an hour away and that's in good traffic. Try catching a 6:30-7 game when you get off of work at 5 and get home and then turn around and drive back, it's just not happening. I can't speak to the situation in Atlanta, which may be bad as well, but it can't be any worse than Houston.

The bottom line is that superstar or no superstar the fan support has been pretty much in the same level for them, just as it's been for the Hawks. The difference is the Hawks have been a little worse and I will also say that you'll never see the Toyota Center packed with local "fans" cheering on the opposing team so those types of fans are also skewing the numbers some.

Houston, Atlanta, and Dallas could almost be sister cities. Not long ago, Atlanta had a top five national average time of commute to and from work. I have not done any demographic research in a long time, but that has probably not fluctuated much since then.

[MaceCase]

They get better fan supporty because *dun dun dun* they've had better teams and better players. Is this truly still a mystery to some people? Is it truly still a "hypothetical" that when you have legends such as Rudy T, Jeff Van Gundy, and Rick Adelman on the sidelines and then Hakeem Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, even Charles Barkley, Steve Francis, Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady, Ron Artest, James Harden and Jeremy Lin on the court to go along with 2 championships that you establish a legacy for your fans? Yet still, despite all that they still can't crack the top half of the league in attendance. The one thing they and Dol can hang their hat on is being better than the fricking Hawks in attendance.........when the Hawks have never had the individuals or team success that the Rockets have put together.

So we take this back to the original point and it would behoove you Dol to pay great attention to this part. Leadership claimed that Dwight would be worshipped as a god in Atlanta to the point of reaching Vick's status. You countered that Houston is "better" at supporting their teams yet the proof is that despite great players and great teams there have always been lackluster in attendance. See, you are trying to make the argument Houston v. Atlanta when the actual argument is Houston with Dwight v. Atlanta with Dwight. Atlanta has proven to be major backers behind a star so it remains to be seen what they would do with a Dwight. Houston on the other hand has proven time and time again that stars won't move their needle.

Edited June 10, 2013 by MaceCase

[Buzzard]

That's not total attendance for the season, that's an average per game. But you'll notice that the numbers didn't fluctuate a whole lot in the years when they didn't have Yao and T-Mac or when those bums were injured and fans didn't have a very good team to cheer for.

My bad. I was looking at those numbers wrong. TMac and Yao may have been bums, but they were both seen as saviors not just to Houston fans, but to the NBA in general. Yao being called the best center other than Shaq and TMac being compared to Kobe. Good press gets the fair weather fans attention. It did not pan out but Houston got plenty of good national and local attention.

[Admin]

Houston, Atlanta, and Dallas could almost be sister cities. Not long ago, Atlanta had a top five national average time of commute to and from work. I have not done any demographic research in a long time, but that has probably not fluctuated much since then.

Yeah I don't have fond memories of Atlanta traffic that's for sure. But doesn't Atlanta have a nice commuter system to get to Philips and places like that? We have a shitty little mono rail here in Houston but it only goes a short distance and is a total waste of time unless you live right there and only want to travel a short distance. It was put in to help get a Super Bowl and it worked but now it's just a traffic hazard.

[Buzzard]

Yeah I don't have fond memories of Atlanta traffic that's for sure. But doesn't Atlanta have a nice commuter system to get to Philips and places like that? We have a shitty little mono rail here in Houston but it only goes a short distance and is a total waste of time unless you live right there and only want to travel a short distance. It was put in to help get a Super Bowl and it worked but now it's just a traffic hazard.

Its a southern thing and its a lot like nascar, we like our cars. That is really all I can say.

[Admin]

Its a southern thing and its a lot like nascar, we like our cars. That is really all I can say.

I love driving too but man I wouldn't mind living in one of those cities where you can walk to cool places and get a little exercise vs sitting in our cars eating or drinking something and not moving.

[Buzzard]

I love driving too but man I wouldn't mind living in one of those cities where you can walk to cool places and get a little exercise vs sitting in our cars eating or drinking something and not moving.

Atlanta's transit system is not like NY or DC for that matter. Its decent, but if you live in the burbs you still need to drive to save time. I lived in Marietta and took a CCT bus to the MARTA rail by Cumberland, then changed to Marta rail, got off the rail and transferred to a MARTA bus to my job in Sandy Springs. It took me about a hour and a half. If I would have driven from my apartment in Marietta to Roswell Rd/Sandy Springs , 30 minutes on a good day and a hour on a real bad one.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Buzzard

[Guest]

Atlanta's transit system is not like NY or DC for that matter. Its decent, but if you live in the burbs you still need to drive to save time. I lived in Marietta and took a CCT bus to the MARTA rail by Cumberland, then changed to Marta rail, got off the rail and transferred to a MARTA bus to my job in Sandy Springs. It took me about a hour and a half. If I would have driven from my apartment in Marietta to Roswell Rd/Sandy Springs , 30 minutes on a good day and a hour on a real bad one.

The transit system is just not effective. When I first moved to Atlanta I lived in the Ansley Park area off of Piedmont Road and my office was is Buckhead. I figured I'm 3 miles from the job so I can take the bus. I called Marta for route info, the agent told me I had to take a bus to Lindbergh Train Station, get on a train to the Buckhead Train station then take another bus south on Peachtree to Buckhead (by the Cheesecake Factory). I was ...WHAT ? How long is all that gonna take - about 1 and 15 minutes maybe longer.

2 buses, 1 train, 3 miles , 1.5 hours....hell naaaaah!!!

That weekend I went to Curry Honda and got myself a brand new Honda Civic Coupe. There was no way I was going to leave home at 7:00AM to get to work for 8:30AM, when I can sleep in and leave at 8:15AM.

[Jbrinson]

He can be the starter is we have post players that will draw double teams. If we can get Dwight, Bynum or Al Jefferson then of course he can start. We'll need an athletic 3 to play with him as well as a pretty athletic PG. We can't have too many slow players starting.

[JETSET]

I am not trying to bust anyone's bubble. Houston is hands down a better team than us without Josh; and they can sign D12 outright without him having to take a pay cut. If we sign CP3 and D12, one or both have to take cuts. I am using logic not what the media says.

Houston cannot sign Dwight outright without a paycut with their current roster. and how is Houston much better than us? They will most likely have to move Asik if they sign Howard as they will not fit well beside each other unless they want to pay a backup C that much.

James Harden is one of the most overrated players in the league. His midrange game is nonexistent. For some reason, the league decided to treat him as a superstar and give him the call anytime a player breathes on him and he lives off of this.

You want to take a guess on Harden's shooting percentage on shots that are not 3's or layups? It's a whopping 30%. He also provides next to nothing on defense. Dwight has also mentioned in the past that he would like to play with a solid PF that can get in there and rebound with him and Houston does not have this type of player while Horford is the exact description of what he wants as he can stretch the floor for Howard while keeping his man in check on defense and hitting the boards hard.