Does Ferry / Budz see Jenkins as a starting SG?

[Admin]

There is a great chance Dwight would be worshiped in Atlanta. Atlanta has been looking for a superstar since Michael Vick.

I hate to say it but the fans are better at supporting their teams in Houston than in Atlanta. And the teams here do a GREAT job of promoting their players, unlike what I've heard countless times on here about how poor the marketing of players is in Atlanta.

[Buzzard]

Back on topic, I don't think Ferry sees Jenkins as a long term solution at SG.

[Admin]

Back on topic, I don't think Ferry sees Jenkins as a long term solution at SG.

You could be right and I think we'll get a great answer to that when the draft rolls around. Whether or not we draft a SG in the 1st will speak wonders about what they think of Jenkins.

[NBASupes]

I hate to say it but the fans are better at supporting their teams in Houston than in Atlanta. And the teams here do a GREAT job of promoting their players, unlike what I've heard countless times on here about how poor the marketing of players is in Atlanta.

Atlanta is a superstar Hollywood type of city. They oversupport when they like you. They undersupport when they don't. See Nique and Michael Vick. Vick would be an ESPN and they would be doing pieces on Vick tying his shoes. Most fans didn't even know who Joe Johnson and the ones who did wish they didn't.

Back on topic, I don't think Ferry sees Jenkins as a long term solution at SG.

What gives you that belief?

[Buzzard]

Atlanta is a superstar Hollywood type of city. They oversupport when they like you. They undersupport when they don't. See Nique and Michael Vick. Vick would be an ESPN and they would be doing pieces on Vick tying his shoes. Most fans didn't even know who Joe Johnson and the ones who did wish they didn't.

What gives you that belief?

The short answer, defense and size.

[Admin]

Atlanta is a superstar Hollywood type of city. They oversupport when they like you. They undersupport when they don't. See Nique and Michael Vick. Vick would be an ESPN and they would be doing pieces on Vick tying his shoes. Most fans didn't even know who Joe Johnson and the ones who did wish they didn't.

I wish people would stop throwing out the Vick thing as if it's the rule and not the exception. But it doesn't matter in Houston the fans love players who most fans in Atlanta wouldn't even know the names of if they were on an Atlanta team. And considering that the Hawks don't market the team or players well and have a poor reputation around the league it's really not even a comparison. I can assure you that from living in both cities that Houston teams do a MUCH better job marketing their teams and players than probably any city I've visited. It really is remarkable considering the Astros have sucked for years and the Texans haven't had much success and the Rockets haven't won a championship since the mid 90's and yet the fans still come out and support them. Look at the attendance numbers.

Rockets overall attendance was 11th highest percentage in the league last year. Hawks were 25th

Texans overall attendance was 3rd highest percentage in the league last year. Falcons were 18th

Astros overall attendance was 27th highest percentage in the league last year. Braves were 19th

The Astros were by far the worst but 2 years ago they were 10th and they had consistently been in that range for a long time but years and years of being one of the cheapest teams with one of the worst owners has dragged them down.

[NBASupes]

The short answer, defense and size.

Gary Neal? Jenkins has a 6' 8.5" wingspan. Not sure, Dell Curry had a similar skill-set and he was just fine. Jenkins team defense was solid and he can be a really good team defender like Korver was. I do not understand some of the Jenkins hate. If we draft Bazz, KCP, or Franklin, none of those guys are ready nor will start in 13-14 regardless if we get CP3 and D12 or not.

[Buzzard]

You could be right and I think we'll get a great answer to that when the draft rolls around. Whether or not we draft a SG in the 1st will speak wonders about what they think of Jenkins.

We only have two picks and three needs. Center, SF, and SG. Multiple players are going to be available at those positions. The good is we can take a possible BPA, the bad is we only can draft to fill two. Outside of Howard and CP3 ( plan 1 and 1a ), I think who we draft will determine plan B and C in free agency more than anything else.

[Buzzard]

Gary Neal? Jenkins has a 6' 8.5" wingspan. Not sure, Dell Curry had a similar skill-set and he was just fine. Jenkins team defense was solid and he can be a really good team defender like Korver was. I do not understand some of the Jenkins hate. If we draft Bazz, KCP, or Franklin, none of those guys are ready nor will start in 13-14 regardless if we get CP3 and D12 or not.

I don't hate Jenkins and love what he does on a rookie contract. I just don't think he is the answer.

[Admin]

We only have two picks and three needs. Center, SF, and SG. Multiple players are going to be available at those positions. The good is we can take a possible BPA, the bad is we only can draft to fill two. Outside of Howard and CP3 ( plan 1 and 1a ), I think who we draft will determine plan B and C in free agency more than anything else.

I don't think that SG is as big of a need as backup PG. That is unless they're planning on trading Lou or if they really don't have confidence in Jenkins. Right now I'd say C and SF are far and away the biggest needs.

[Admin]

I don't hate Jenkins and love what he does on a rookie contract. I just don't think he is the answer.

KB posted some interesting numbers with the win shares per 48 that showed that Jenkins was better than Beal and Waiters and both were high lottery picks last year. I think Jenkins had the better shooting efficiency numbers as well. He may not be the answer because he's a negative rebounder, but he's an efficient shot maker and if he can learn to be an adequate defender he would be more than enough to get by as a starter.

[NBASupes]

I wish people would stop throwing out the Vick thing as if it's the rule and not the exception. But it doesn't matter in Houston the fans love players who most fans in Atlanta wouldn't even know the names of if they were on an Atlanta team. And considering that the Hawks don't market the team or players well and have a poor reputation around the league it's really not even a comparison. I can assure you that from living in both cities that Houston teams do a MUCH better job marketing their teams and players than probably any city I've visited. It really is remarkable considering the Astros have sucked for years and the Texans haven't had much success and the Rockets haven't won a championship since the mid 90's and yet the fans still come out and support them. Look at the attendance numbers.

Rockets overall attendance was 11th highest percentage in the league last year. Hawks were 25th

Texans overall attendance was 3rd highest percentage in the league last year. Falcons were 18th

Astros overall attendance was 27th highest percentage in the league last year. Braves were 19th

The Astros were by far the worst but 2 years ago they were 10th and they had consistently been in that range for a long time but years and years of being one of the cheapest teams with one of the worst owners has dragged them down.

Here is we completely disagree.

Vick is the rule like Nique if you are a superstar, not the exception. This whole Atlanta Hawks markets their players poorly is true if people cared about Horf, Smoove, or Joe but they don't. They are irrelevant nationally and the Hawks are rarely relevant. The Celtics series was the best thing that happened to the Hawks and in return their attendance had a major jump but once fans seen that is some boring BS, no one bother to go. I am sure Houston does a much better job of marketing Houston. It is not that far removed when Houston Basketball was relevant. Even with disappointing results, Yao and T-Mac always had national and worldwide attention. The Hawks, a lot of NBA fans hate the Hawks, they find them boring, not good enough, and poor fits. It's not even comparable to be honest.

Rockets are more popular than the Hawks in general. Go to bbsclutchfans and compare it to the activity here. Just a lot more Rockets fans. More relevant, had HOF's like the Dream, had exciting players like Francis and T-Mac, and they had the most popular NBA player in Yao. So talking about attendance is a moot point. Atlanta would be better suited to be compared to the 76ers who's popularity is down due to a lack of excitement around the players they have. Nothing saying Jrue isn't good because he is. He is not exciting.

Falcons had 560,773 fans in 8 games compared to 573,321 which is not a big difference and we were 11 overall as Houston was 8.

The Astros are bad but 33 games and only 593,403

The Braves played 28 games at home and 853,963

Wow!

[MaceCase]

Few points of clarification. Houston cannot afford Dwight on a full max outright, they have to shed a bit of salary first. Secondly, I sincerely doubt that they are a better sports town than Atlanta or at least not basketball wise. Ranking in the bottom half in the league in home total attendance and percentage (why should we give credit to Houston for fans of other teams appreciating their team more than they do?) going all the way through the two championship runs by Hakeem, having Stevie "Franchise" and superstars in Yao, TMac and now the acquisition of Harden and a young exciting team that made it to the playoffs for the first time in 3 years makes me believe that they are indeed a shittier sports town. The Hawks haven't had half of those things to cheer about but because it's a tired old meme that requires no thinking by the media, Atlanta gets continuously dubbed as a shitty sports town while worse offenders fly underneath the radar.

[NBASupes]

Few points of clarification. Houston cannot afford Dwight on a full max outright, they have to shed a bit of salary first. Secondly, I sincerely doubt that they are a better sports town than Atlanta or at least not basketball wise. Ranking in the bottom half in the league in home total attendance and percentage (why should we give credit to Houston for fans of other teams appreciating their team more than they do?) going all the way through the two championship runs by Hakeem, having Stevie "Franchise" and superstars in Yao, TMac and now the acquisition of Harden and a young exciting team that made it to the playoffs for the first time in 3 years makes me believe that they are indeed a shittier sports town. The Hawks haven't had half of those things to cheer about but because it's a tired old meme that requires no thinking by the media, Atlanta gets continuously dubbed as a shitty sports town while worse offenders fly underneath the radar.

Outside of Salt Lake City, the Knicks, Brooklyn and Chicago, what city would support the BS we have put out since Nique was traded. No chance at a ring. No exciting players whatsoever. Smoove is not exciting, he is a frustrating. You don't say noooooooo! when exciting players do any type of action. J.R. Rider might be one of the most exciting players the Hawks had since we traded Nique and he was an awful joke in Atlanta.

It's funny when people say we have bad fans when other players say we have good fans in the playoffs and even the announcers where saying the team needs to give Atlanta a reason to be excited. This has been a very boring team with no chance at a title since we traded Nique. Who would support this? Who? 85% of NBA fanbases would not support this team but yet people throw mug at us Atlanta fans.

I love guys like Al and Lou but no one goes to NBA games to see them play. No one.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Leadership

[NBASupes]

Few points of clarification. Houston cannot afford Dwight on a full max outright, they have to shed a bit of salary first. Secondly, I sincerely doubt that they are a better sports town than Atlanta or at least not basketball wise. Ranking in the bottom half in the league in home total attendance and percentage (why should we give credit to Houston for fans of other teams appreciating their team more than they do?) going all the way through the two championship runs by Hakeem, having Stevie "Franchise" and superstars in Yao, TMac and now the acquisition of Harden and a young exciting team that made it to the playoffs for the first time in 3 years makes me believe that they are indeed a shittier sports town. The Hawks haven't had half of those things to cheer about but because it's a tired old meme that requires no thinking by the media, Atlanta gets continuously dubbed as a shitty sports town while worse offenders fly underneath the radar.

Watch this: T.I. generally looks at things from an average Atlanta sports fan perspective.

[Admin]

Here is we completely disagree.

Vick is the rule like Nique if you are a superstar, not the exception. This whole Atlanta Hawks markets their players poorly is true if people cared about Horf, Smoove, or Joe but they don't. They are irrelevant nationally and the Hawks are rarely relevant. The Celtics series was the best thing that happened to the Hawks and in return their attendance had a major jump but once fans seen that is some boring BS, no one bother to go. I am sure Houston does a much better job of marketing Houston. It is not that far removed when Houston Basketball was relevant. Even with disappointing results, Yao and T-Mac always had national and worldwide attention. The Hawks, a lot of NBA fans hate the Hawks, they find them boring, not good enough, and poor fits. It's not even comparable to be honest.

Rockets are more popular than the Hawks in general. Go to bbsclutchfans and compare it to the activity here. Just a lot more Rockets fans. More relevant, had HOF's like the Dream, had exciting players like Francis and T-Mac, and they had the most popular NBA player in Yao. So talking about attendance is a moot point. Atlanta would be better suited to be compared to the 76ers who's popularity is down due to a lack of excitement around the players they have. Nothing saying Jrue isn't good because he is. He is not exciting.

Falcons had 560,773 fans in 8 games compared to 573,321 which is not a big difference and we were 11 overall as Houston was 8.

The Astros are bad but 33 games and only 593,403

The Braves played 28 games at home and 853,963

Wow!

You are looking at the total numbers for NFL teams when you need to look at the percentages to compensate for different sized stadiums.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2012/sort/allPct

Falcons 15th at home, 24th on the road, 18th overall

Texans 6th at home, 4th on the road, 3rd overall

I can't say anything about the Astros other than it's remarkable anyone goes to their games. Everyone hates the owner, they get rid of players as soon as they become good, and people have finally given up on supporting them until they get a new owner.

The Rockets are more popular because Rockets fans in general are better and that's because the team does a better job of reaching out to people and making fans out of them. The Hawks suck at this. Sorry but attendance is a legit point when Yao hasn't been in the league in 4 years, T-Mac has been off the team for almost 4 years, and until this year they hadn't been in the playoffs since 2008-2009. Yet somehow they still draw in fans. It's because you turn on your TV or radio and you see or hear awesome commercials that get you pumped up about the team. You drive around town and you see billboards all over the place supporting the Rockets (same for the Texans and even the Astros as well). From what I've read countless times on here you don't see that in Atlanta and I certainly don't remember seeing it when I lived there.

You can argue this until you're blue in the face but the facts are that Houston fans support their teams better than Atlanta fans do. I honestly can't believe that anyone would try and argue differently since we all know damn good and well that outside of the diehards that support in Atlanta has been pretty poor considering the average winning percentage of the teams for quite some time now.

[Admin]

Few points of clarification. Houston cannot afford Dwight on a full max outright, they have to shed a bit of salary first. Secondly, I sincerely doubt that they are a better sports town than Atlanta or at least not basketball wise. Ranking in the bottom half in the league in home total attendance and percentage (why should we give credit to Houston for fans of other teams appreciating their team more than they do?) going all the way through the two championship runs by Hakeem, having Stevie "Franchise" and superstars in Yao, TMac and now the acquisition of Harden and a young exciting team that made it to the playoffs for the first time in 3 years makes me believe that they are indeed a shittier sports town. The Hawks haven't had half of those things to cheer about but because it's a tired old meme that requires no thinking by the media, Atlanta gets continuously dubbed as a shitty sports town while worse offenders fly underneath the radar.

As above you have to look at percentages. The Toyota Center can hold 18k fans for basketball and the Rockets averaged 16.6k (92%) per game last year at home. Philips arena holds roughly the same 18k fans for basketball but the Hawks only averaged 15.1K (81%) fans per game last year at home. And that's after what 6 straight postseason appearances now? So please tell me how the general Hawks fans support their team better than the general Rockets fans do.

[Buzzard]

Few points of clarification. Houston cannot afford Dwight on a full max outright, they have to shed a bit of salary first.

True, as it stands the Rockets can offer about 17 million starting and that is why they are looking for the best deal on Thomas Robinson, a 5th overall pick, who makes 3.5 million.

[Admin]

True, as it stands the Rockets can offer about 17 million starting and that is why they are looking for the best deal on Thomas Robinson, a 5th overall pick, who makes 3.5 million.

Luckily outside of rebounding he was abysmal last year and hopefully there won't be any teams that help the Rockets clear cap room to take the risk on him.

[NBASupes]

You are looking at the total numbers for NFL teams when you need to look at the percentages to compensate for different sized stadiums.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/attendance/_/year/2012/sort/allPct

Falcons 15th at home, 24th on the road, 18th overall

Texans 6th at home, 4th on the road, 3rd overall

I can't say anything about the Astros other than it's remarkable anyone goes to their games. Everyone hates the owner, they get rid of players as soon as they become good, and people have finally given up on supporting them until they get a new owner.

The Rockets are more popular because Rockets fans in general are better and that's because the team does a better job of reaching out to people and making fans out of them. The Hawks suck at this. Sorry but attendance is a legit point when Yao hasn't been in the league in 4 years, T-Mac has been off the team for almost 4 years, and until this year they hadn't been in the playoffs since 2008-2009. Yet somehow they still draw in fans. It's because you turn on your TV or radio and you see or hear awesome commercials that get you pumped up about the team. You drive around town and you see billboards all over the place supporting the Rockets (same for the Texans and even the Astros as well). From what I've read countless times on here you don't see that in Atlanta and I certainly don't remember seeing it when I lived there.

You can argue this until you're blue in the face but the facts are that Houston fans support their teams better than Atlanta fans do. I honestly can't believe that anyone would try and argue differently since we all know damn good and well that outside of the diehards that support in Atlanta has been pretty poor considering the average winning percentage of the teams for quite some time now.

I don't care about rank by percentages when your stadium having more seats means you sell more tickets. If Tennessee sell 89% of of their tickets and Vandy sell 100% of their tickets but Vandy stadium is 35k and Tennessee is 102k which has made more money and has more fans? Percentage wise Vandy did better right but actually who did better?

Since when do we care about road for NFL attendance. If anything it says how popular your team is to other fans in the NFL which they clearly aren't.

That sounds like the Hawks eight years ago yet we got s**tted on by the media for not showing up. You know what they say right, well Cubs fans still go to their games while losing.

OMG, did you just say Rockets fans are better is why they are more popular? I lived in both cities. Houston fans are bigger because they have been relevant for over 40 years. The Hawks haven't been relevant in over 15 years. This is simple man, it's not that hard, most fans will not stick around if they have no reason to. Houston fans have had guys like Yao, Hakeem, T-Mac, Francis, and Drexler. The Hawks have had Deke and Smitty. People clowned you if you played like Deke. People boo Smoove when he takes a long jumper yet you are comparing us to Rockets fans like a fair comparison.

Most of those years without a star profile player like Yao or T-Mac, they have been in the 10 of NBA attendance. One year they weren't their attendance was worse than ours yet we have worse fans right? Quit it, I been to both cities. Atlanta has a lot more Basketball fans and Hawks fans aren't much different mentally than Houston fans. Atlanta problem is a lot of their fans are player fans of James, Wade, Kobe, etc because Atlanta gives them zero hope. Not much different than when we had Chandler till we drafted Vick for the Falcons.

Atlanta fans>Houston fans in terms of Basketball. As far as Baseball, Atlanta. As far as Football, Houston.