Does Ferry / Budz see Jenkins as a starting SG?

[Guest]

Leader, next year Jenks should be regardless of personal? So if we got a Ben Mac from Kansas you'd still start Jenks? Ferry better get cp and Dwight if Jenks is gonna start.

[Jody23]

Leader, next year Jenks should be regardless of personal? So if we got a Ben Mac from Kansas you'd still start Jenks? Ferry better get cp and Dwight if Jenks is gonna start.

Even with this draft being potrayed as weak, I just don't see the Hawks moving into the lottery with only the 17 and 18 picks to offer. I say only the 17 and 18 picks because I don't see the Hawks giving up capspace by taking on bad contracts to move up or trading multiple future picks to move up. So, in light of that I do see Jenkins as the starter next year. Hopefully he gets better.

[KB21]

That's still below what is considered league average.

His WS48 numbers are more due to his lack of rebounding from his position than anything else.

What's interesting is this. If you look at the rookie guards/wing players from this past season, Jenkins actually ranks very highly.

I looked at the guards/wings that played in at least 40 games this past season. This is the top 5 in WS48:

1. Patrick Beverly/Houston 0.148

2. Pablo Prigioni/New York 0.123

3. Orlando Johnson/Indiana 0.115

4. John Jenkins/Atlanta 0.091

5. Damian Lillard/Portland 0.088

Bradley Beal was 6th with a 0.082 WS48

True shooting percentage tells me how efficiently you are as a scorer. Among the same group with the same criteria, here are the top 5 guards/wings in TS%:

1. Pablo Prigioni/New York 0.595

2. John Jenkins/Atlanta 0.576

3. Patrick Beverly/Houston 0.551

4. Damian Lillard/Portland 0.546

5. Nando De Colo/San Antonio 0.530

#2 overall pick Bradley Beal was 7th with a 0.515 TS%.

eFG% tells me how efficient you are as a shooter.

1. Pablo Prigioni/New York 0.575

2. John Jenkins/Atlanta 0.536

3. Patrick Beverly/Houston 0.513

4. Damian Lillard/Portland 0.501

5. Nando De Colo/San Antonio 0.500

Bradley Beal was 9th with a 0.477 eFG%

Anytime you are looking at eFG% and TS%, you have to take into account USG as well. Typically, as a player increases his USG, his efficiency will drop some.

The top 5 rookie guard/wings in USG:

1. Dion Waters/Cleveland 26.1%

2. Kent Bazemore/Golden State 25.7%

3. Damian Lillard/Portland 24.2%

4. Bradley Beal/Washington 22.2%

5. Brian Roberts/New Orleans 21.6%

John Jenkins is 9th with a USG of 18.7%.

Jenkins is a terrific shooter and efficient scorer, and there is always a place on a team for players like him who can play the role of floor spacer and get you some quick, easy baskets. Whether he is a starter long term depends upon how well he can round out the rest of his game. Being a starter means little to me though when I look at Manu Ginobili's career. He's only had like 2 seasons where he has actually started 70+ games for the Spurs. They have more often than not brought him off the bench, and he's typically played behind someone who was a floor spacer like Danny Green this year or Michael Finley in previous years.

[Admin]

The reason why I ask whether they see him as a starter mostly relates to whether or not we're looking to draft a SG in the 1st round. I mean I really like Franklin and KCP and both are probably going to be SG's, but if we think that Jenkins will be good enough as a starter (if he rounds his game out as KB points out) then maybe we don't need to draft one of those guys and can go for a C or maybe even double down on C.

So let's say the 17th and 18th picks come up and those SG's are available do we take one of them or look to fill much bigger holes on our roster at C and SF?

BTW thanks for breaking down those stats KB. It's encouraging to see that Jenkins compared so favorably with Bradley Beal and Dion Waiters.

[Jody23]

The reason why I ask whether they see him as a starter mostly relates to whether or not we're looking to draft a SG in the 1st round. I mean I really like Franklin and KCP and both are probably going to be SG's, but if we think that Jenkins will be good enough as a starter (if he rounds his game out as KB points out) then maybe we don't need to draft one of those guys and can go for a C or maybe even double down on C. So let's say the 17th and 18th picks come up and those SG's are available do we take one of them or look to fill much bigger holes on our roster at C and SF? BTW thanks for breaking down those stats KB. It's encouraging to see that Jenkins compared so favorably with Bradley Beal and Dion Waiters.

I'm thinking the Hawks go with a SF.

[Admin]

I'm thinking the Hawks go with a SF.

I don't want to turn this into an actual prospects thread as that doesn't belong in this forum and lord knows I'll be asking for the obligatory 'this thread has been moved...' teaser that a couple of the funnier people here like to use so I'll just say that I'm thinking we might look for a SF as well as a C. Which sucks because I really like a couple of those SG prospects as better 2 way players than Jenkins. Maybe we just go ahead and take one and then look to move Lou in a trade? Plus there's really only 1 SF prospect who's gonna probably be there when we pick who is worthy of being picked there.

[Guest]

I say we go BPA, no matter what position. But I hope Franklin is there at pick 17.

[Jody23]

I don't want to turn this into an actual prospects thread as that doesn't belong in this forum and lord knows I'll be asking for the obligatory 'this thread has been moved...' teaser that a couple of the funnier people here like to use so I'll just say that I'm thinking we might look for a SF as well as a C. Which sucks because I really like a couple of those SG prospects as better 2 way players than Jenkins. Maybe we just go ahead and take one and then look to move Lou in a trade? Plus there's really only 1 SF prospect who's gonna probably be there when we pick who is worthy of being picked there.

I gotcha. I'd be beyond shocked if the Hawks traded Lou though.

[Admin]

I gotcha. I'd be beyond shocked if the Hawks traded Lou though.

Me too but he really doesn't fit the style of play that Budz likes and I think we'd be better off drafting a young kid to back Jenkins up and use Lou's money elsewhere. I'd probably still bring in a vet min SG though.

[Jody23]

Me too but he really doesn't fit the style of play that Budz likes and I think we'd be better off drafting a young kid to back Jenkins up and use Lou's money elsewhere. I'd probably still bring in a vet min SG though.

What about Lou's game suggests he doesn't fit? He may not be a great defender, but he's a good shooter and is also good off the dribble when a play breaks down. I think he'll be fine in Bud's system once he gets healthy. I don't think Bud will try to use him as a point guard the way Drew did though.

[gurpilo]

I like Jenkins, he is a good shooter and can handle the ball, however defense and size is a concern for him specially with a small PG with him, they would be a really small backourt with Chris Paul and even with Teague although Jeff has more defensive tools. I see now him more of a scorer off the bench and I think we should go with BPA at draft day and that seems to be KCP, Muhammad or Franklin, all of them have legit size for their positions and on my opinion are better options to become starters at NBA level.

[Admin]

What about Lou's game suggests he doesn't fit? He may not be a great defender, but he's a good shooter and is also good off the dribble when a play breaks down. I think he'll be fine in Bud's system once he gets healthy. I don't think Bud will try to use him as a point guard the way Drew did though.

He's not a great passer, he's not a PnR type of player, he's not a great spot up shooter, he's small and tends to be more of an ISO type of player. None of those are attributes of the Spurs players.

I like Lou and think his game can be very useful but I don't really see him fitting into the Spurs style of play.

[Jody23]

He's not a great passer, he's not a PnR type of player, he's not a great spot up shooter, he's small and tends to be more of an ISO type of player. None of those are attributes of the Spurs players. I like Lou and think his game can be very useful but I don't really see him fitting into the Spurs style of play.

I won't dispute any of that, but that's where Bud's ability as a coach comes into play. Lou appears to be very coachable and I think he'll strive to do what's asked of him. Edited June 9, 2013 by Jody23

[Admin]

I won't dispute any of that, but that's where Bud's ability as a coach comes into play. Lou appears to be very coachable and I think he'll strive to do what's asked of him.

No doubt about that and believe me I'm a huge Lou fan and wanted him on the Hawks since the day he came into the league but I've never been a fan of having non-prototypically sized players. If we can use Lou to move up in the draft and clear that salary or use it to acquire a guy who's a better fit for the system then I'd be all for it. If Lou is back next year then I'm not doing to be disappointed but it's not my ideal scenario.

[KB21]

The reason why I ask whether they see him as a starter mostly relates to whether or not we're looking to draft a SG in the 1st round. I mean I really like Franklin and KCP and both are probably going to be SG's, but if we think that Jenkins will be good enough as a starter (if he rounds his game out as KB points out) then maybe we don't need to draft one of those guys and can go for a C or maybe even double down on C.

So let's say the 17th and 18th picks come up and those SG's are available do we take one of them or look to fill much bigger holes on our roster at C and SF?

BTW thanks for breaking down those stats KB. It's encouraging to see that Jenkins compared so favorably with Bradley Beal and Dion Waiters.

Jenkins was much more efficient than Dion Waiters. His usage is not nearly as high, but Dion was a very, very inefficient scorer who also wasn't a good passer nor rebounder for his position.

I think they could avoid taking a shooting guard if they so choose, but you also have to take into account that San Antonio has used several guards in the past. Just this year, they give Danny Green, Manu, and Gary Neal a lot of playing time.

[Admin]

Jenkins was much more efficient than Dion Waiters. His usage is not nearly as high, but Dion was a very, very inefficient scorer who also wasn't a good passer nor rebounder for his position.

I think they could avoid taking a shooting guard if they so choose, but you also have to take into account that San Antonio has used several guards in the past. Just this year, they give Danny Green, Manu, and Gary Neal a lot of playing time.

That's why I said Jenkins compared favorably and I mentioned those 2 guys because they were such high lottery picks.

With Jenkins and Lou, who isn't a PG except in size, we already have 2 SG's and too many positions with nobody so I'm not sure that we'd draft another SG in the 1st round.

[Buzzard]

I think he has a legit chance to be a starter this year considering the teams circumstances. With he and Lou already in the fold and the Hawks looking to bring Korver back, I don't see the Hawks pursuing anymore shooting guards. I do think Jenkins will get better on both sides of ball by next season.

The big rumor was we coveted Monte or Irsan in any deal with the Bucks for Josh. I do not think Ferry is content with anyone we have at the 2,3, or 5. That is assuming Teague and Horford are playing their best positions.

[Jody23]

The big rumor was we coveted Monte or Irsan in any deal with the Bucks for Josh. I do not think Ferry is content with anyone we have at the 2,3, or 5. That is assuming Teague and Horford are playing their best positions.

The primary reason Ferry coveted Ellis is because Ellis was going to opt out of his contract no matter what which would ensure they would keep the cap space available. The player Ferry was really interested in past this season was Ersan Illyasova, not Monta. Edited June 10, 2013 by Jody23

[Admin]

The primary reason Ferry coveted Ellis is because Ellis was going to opt out of his contract no matter what which would ensure they would keep the cap space available. The player Ferry was really interested in past this season was Ersan Illyasova, not Monta.

And there's a rumor that Illy is being traded to one of the teams in the top 5 of the draft for their pick. Sounds ridiculous to me but maybe that's what Ferry had in mind when he wanted Illy was so that he could move him for a pick.

[Buzzard]

The primary reason Ferry coveted Ellis is because Ellis was going to opt out of his contract no matter what which would ensure they would keep the cap space available. The player Ferry was really interested in past this season was Ersan Illyasova, not Monta.

Or just maybe Ferry valued the rights to Monte more than he does Josh.