IF we don't get a C, we should trade Horford.

[supermariowest]

We have traded away a playoff team

No, we traded away Joe and Marvin. Then we made the playoffs without them.

all we have to show for it right now is money nobody wants to take from us

Korver took it, Millsap took it, Carroll took it -- these are all solid players. Dwight didn't take it. Who else is refusing to take money from us? We're not blowing through our money but that doesn't mean we're whiffing.

Millsap is no Sf.. WTF do you think Utah traded for Sorry Marvin???

Millsap will be used primarily as a power forward. I have no idea why Utah traded for Sorry Marvin.

This team is misbuilt

To build a basketball team, you need guards (check), forwards (check), centers (check). You need some shooters (check) and you want your players to play fundamentally sound basketball (check). The notion that he has mismanaged things is laughable.

if Ferry trades Teague for Jennings, then I believe that Ferry = Babcock. This is the kind of knee-jerk stuff he would do.

At this point, the Teague/Jennings/Ellis noise is just a rumor. I've seen a lot of knee-jerk reactions on here since free agency started and they've all been in response to rumors.Edit: At some point, trading Horford might be the smart thing to do. I don't think we're there right now. Edited July 9, 2013 by supermariowest

[taz]

You don't trade a 17/10 guy who is making under 15 million. You just don't

[tonegully]

Exactly. Why does this even come up in discussion

[Diesel]

No, we traded away Joe and Marvin. Then we made the playoffs without them. Korver took it, Millsap took it, Carroll took it -- these are all solid players. Dwight didn't take it. Who else is refusing to take money from us? We're not blowing through our money but that doesn't mean we're whiffing. Millsap will be used primarily as a power forward. I have no idea why Utah traded for Sorry Marvin. To build a basketball team, you need guards (check), forwards (check), centers (check). You need some shooters (check) and you want your players to play fundamentally sound basketball (check). The notion that he has mismanaged things is laughable. At this point, the Teague/Jennings/Ellis noise is just a rumor. I've seen a lot of knee-jerk reactions on here since free agency started and they've all been in response to rumors.Edit: At some point, trading Horford might be the smart thing to do. I don't think we're there right now.

I appreciate your responses.

Now, here's my rebuttal.

You are right, we traded away Joe and Marvin and made the playoffs. And was removed in the first round. Us making the playoffs was due to good coach and Luck. Derrick Rose will be back. Milwaukee will be better. How long do you expect to beat up on a weak East? We did our best work vs. Washington, Charlotte, Orlando, Milwaukee, Utah and Memphis. Against those teams we were 19-1.

Against teams that were better than .500, Not so good.

You don't trade a 17/10 guy who is making under 15 million.You just don't

It depends on what you can get.

[taz]

You're not getting a better value you'd probably get maybe .75 cents on the dollar for him

[Diesel]

No, we traded away Joe and Marvin. Then we made the playoffs without them. Korver took it, Millsap took it, Carroll took it -- these are all solid players. Dwight didn't take it. Who else is refusing to take money from us? We're not blowing through our money but that doesn't mean we're whiffing. Millsap will be used primarily as a power forward. I have no idea why Utah traded for Sorry Marvin. To build a basketball team, you need guards (check), forwards (check), centers (check). You need some shooters (check) and you want your players to play fundamentally sound basketball (check). The notion that he has mismanaged things is laughable. At this point, the Teague/Jennings/Ellis noise is just a rumor. I've seen a lot of knee-jerk reactions on here since free agency started and they've all been in response to rumors.Edit: At some point, trading Horford might be the smart thing to do. I don't think we're there right now.

Us and spending money is steady for now, but if we waste money on the likes of Jennings or Ellis..... Those are Larry Hughes like moves.

Utah traded for Marvin because they needed defense. While you can find great analytics on Millsap's offense.. His defense is what kills him. He doesn't guard man on man very well. He's a hard worker, but he just don't. So they traded for Marvin to cover where AK-47 use to cover. Keeping Al at C sucks for us. Neither he or Millsap has a low post offense. Millsap is a bit too small. SO now, we have the same thing we had with Smoove except at least Millsap knows he can't hit the three.

To build a basketball team you need those skillsets. You put a check by PG. Who is our PG? Our young PG is too small to put on the court. He will be posted up all the way back to Germany. Moreover, his overall skill level is not NBA quality. You're inviting a bloodbath if you put him out there.

You got Al down for C no doubt. Another year that Al's plea has gone undealt with. Al is going to leave us and he won't do one thing to help us because we didn't nothing to help him.

Back to skillsets, who is our low post defender? Who is our low post scorer? Those two things are just as important as a three point specialist and we have none. NOT My title. IF we don't get a C, we should trade Al away.

I agree with you that we have had a lot of rumors floating.. and at this point and time, the media is in a frenzy and anything can become a headline because there's no respect for the process of Journalism. BUT We are meeting with Bynum. And we're running short of candidates to do what we need done.

[Diesel]

You're not getting a better value you'd probably get maybe .75 cents on the dollar for him

My point is that if we don't build this team right, this is the high point of Horfords value in trade. Some of our problems as an organization has come because we drafted wrong. Maybe once or twice we traded for the wrong player. However, the biggest most constant problem we have had is keeping players that didn't fit and that were losing value too long. Without a legitimate C and thrusted in as the primary scorer, Horf doesn't fit. Our team is a poor man's version of last year's team. I'd rather end the duplication and get somebody that fits our need.

[taz]

I don't thing you understand the way basketball is going the concept of positions like point guard and center are soon to be relics of the past, tell me who is the point guard for the two teams in the finals? Neither team had a traditional point guard or even a traditional starting five.

[Diesel]

I don't thing you understand the way basketball is going the concept of positions like point guard and center are soon to be relics of the past, tell me who is the point guard for the two teams in the finals? Neither team had a traditional point guard or even a traditional starting five.

That's laughable.

You just had the whole Sports world watching what happens to Dwight. Dwight got more coverage than Wimbledon and the Greenbriar open. Dwight news and rumors preceded any baseball notes on ESPN and Fox. And you think the C position is soon to be a relic. A dominant C still is the easiest way to get to the finals. Two slightly above average Centers almost upended Miami's championship walk. One nonskilled center (birdman) saved Miami's championship. The Center positions will always be important in the game of basketball. Small ball will never take over. No Small ball team has ever won a championship.

The traditional PG like the dominant Center will always have a spot in the championship discussion.

Don't mistake DROUGHT for unwanted.

[taz]

Call me when D12 or a team led by a traditional center wins a title(hint one hasn't in nearly ten years)Same with Chris Paul

Edited July 9, 2013 by taz

[taz]

The pacers nearly won because of team defense and strong scoring from the wing. Also birdman has an inch on Horf and weighs 20 lbs less. A 6"10 250lbs center isn't really undersized he's not Danny forston or anything

Edited July 9, 2013 by taz

[Diesel]

The pacers nearly won because of team defense and strong scoring from the wing. Also birdman has an inch on Horf and weighs 20 lbs less. A 6"10 250lbs center isn't really undersized he's not Danny forston or anything

Pacers had:

Hibbert, Hill. While these guys are not Kareem and Magic they are a true C and a PG.

Horf is not a true C. He's a PF playing C because there is a lack of true centers in the game. The Pacers paid strong attention to skillset.

[Sothron]

Honestly as much as I love Al if we could get a great deal back for him I'd trade him. He is going to spend the last of his prime years on either a playoff treadmill team or a rebuilding one.

[JETSET]

Diesel must be really bored this summer. The troll is strong in this one.

[JETSET]

Pacers had:

Hibbert, Hill. While these guys are not Kareem and Magic they are a true C and a PG.

Horf is not a true C. He's a PF playing C because there is a lack of true centers in the game. The Pacers paid strong attention to skillset.

Hill a true PG? Hill's lack of PG skills is the key reason why the Pacers won't win a title. They have no one that can initiate the offense. I thought this was obvious to everyone.

[MaceCase]

Hill a true PG? Hill's lack of PG skills is the key reason why the Pacers won't win a title. They have no one that can initiate the offense. I thought this was obvious to everyone.

Yup, he's a combo if there ever was one.

[IllestPamfilis]

Honestly as much as I love Al if we could get a great deal back for him I'd trade him. He is going to spend the last of his prime years on either a playoff treadmill team or a rebuilding one.

Couldn't agree more. Al deserves to be on a winner, BUT he's a huge part of the puzzle so I'm kind of torn on this. It would have to be a deal we can't refuse (Godfather face)

[terrell]

Hill a true PG? Hill's lack of PG skills is the key reason why the Pacers won't win a title. They have no one that can initiate the offense. I thought this was obvious to everyone.

Agreed. Hill is a 2 guard in a pg's body.

[terrell]

Evidently someone hasn't seen Al at the 4. Can he play pf? Yes. But he's nothing special. I like him at center. Always have. Especially if he had a smart pf to play with(and yes Josh played stupid MOST of the time). And Ferry just gave him one. Just my opinion of course.And enough with this "true" pg , shooting guard, sf, pf, center shizz. The NBA has changed. Didnt the Heat win a title last year without a"true" center?And who was the "true" center on the Spurs team this year? Duncan and Splitter are both pf's. lol

Edited July 9, 2013 by terrell

[terrell]

I still see the value in having a rim/lane protector even if you don't want to call it a "true center". My Heat-fan BIL was saying something similar to the bolded portion, then he remembered the Heat have the best player in bball on their team. I think there's a saying that goes "talent negates all theories" or STTE. Regardless, Birdman actually played an important role in their run. I agree with your point regarding Horford at PF. He's a gamer but effort only takes you so far. I'm starting to think we should trade him now while his value's at it's peak. I think with an increased role his warts will begin to show. I'm probably going to get banned since this site is becoming "Horford"squawk.

I said last year. Birdman wasn't there. And what about SA, or the 04 Pistons. Neither of those teams had the best player in the world. Btw, I also think we need another big(rim protector) to take Zaza's place. We can go BIG if need be.(when we play Hibbert, Bynum, Dwight), Every other game, Al should be the starting center imo.