We are who we are

[taz]

It's a put in your hard hat and get to work team and its success depends on how well these guys play together. Chemistry matters in basketball if these guys trust each other and believe in each other it's a dangerous team. If its like the past five or six years of hawks bball it'll be a disaster. This team won't work when if it plays like a pick up team.

[Diesel]

I completely agree D. I agree Sap and Horf are not the guys that should be relied upon to carry a team and I agree that we are still a starter away from being great. We just don't have that go to scorer, but neither does Memphis. I believe we will find that scorer in 2014, but will have to make due with Lou, Teague, Horf, and Sap for the time being. I'd take Rip on a one-year vet min. I feel the biggest difference between this Hawks team and pass Hawks teams is Coach Bud. He will expect every ounce of juice to be squeezed from the orange. Memphis was number 1 in points allowed while being 26th in points scored. Hawks were 13th in both categories. I believe the biggest difference between the two teams last season was toughness and having players buy-in to their roles and putting out hustle and work. Smoove leaving is addition by subtraction and replacing him with a guy as apt at his position as Millsap is the icing on the cake.

Honestly PSH...

I think that this comparison to Memphis is ridiculous.

Memphis has a 7 footer who can block shots and score. We dont. Memphis has a PF who has a gang of low post moves. We don't. You would do better to call us a Duncanless San Antonio or a Utah Jazz but Memphis?

I also think that you're putting a lot of pressure on a first year, first time coach. Let's understand Ferry for a minute. He wants to surround himself with people and schemes that he's comfortable with. I don't think Ferry has ever answered the question of winning and where it stands for him. OF course he wants to win, but when? As I look at our team, I don't think we have a core just yet. We're just showcasing talent for trade. He's going to trade and draft us into the future. That's what Sap's contract tells me.

I think we will be competitive but ultimately, guys like Sap and maybe even Horf are on the move for the right price. Teague too. I think he will keep Dennis if Dennis shows that he can limit turnovers and run Bud's offense. So if you want to know what plan he's running, I would say he's doing Houston. Gathering assets and trying to win but knowing that anybody can be traded at any time to get the right thing.

Unfortunately, he has traded for Gortat and probably can't now, but I would easily give up a protected (5) first rounder for Gortat. When you look at everything Gortat does, it fits what we need both now and in the future. I would hate to see him try to get him in the offseason and lose out.

[Diesel]

Memphis has done reached their peak as a team and that's with banged up playoff teams in the west. The Grizzlies have went as far as they will go. They're like the late 90's Hawks in some ways. That team wasn't built for the playoffs either despite having good defense. Despite their defense and effort they will lose to a healthy Durant/Westbrook.

While I don't agree with the comparison, this is not right either. Memphis has everything you need to get to the next level. The abrupt coaching change will make all the difference in the world though. The Hawks have never been to a conference finals. Memphis has. And they can go back again. Even with Doc Rivers, a healthy OKC, and a Golden State team that's well coached, I don't see any way that Memphis is not back inthe WCF.

[Vol4ever]

Good as Memphis? LolAlthough I think Memphis will go down some because of the coach. I don't understand the deal with Hollins but Karl is a joke.We are going to be a bad team this year. Our skill set is awful. Outside of Teague, Milsap, and Horford we have basically bench players.

[Ruckus]

Good as Memphis? LolAlthough I think Memphis will go down some because of the coach. I don't understand the deal with Hollins but Karl is a joke.We are going to be a bad team this year. Our skill set is awful. Outside of Teague, Milsap, and Horford we have basically bench players.

Let me guess... You said the same thing last season?

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Honestly PSH...

I think that this comparison to Memphis is ridiculous.

Memphis has a 7 footer who can block shots and score. We dont. Memphis has a PF who has a gang of low post moves. We don't. You would do better to call us a Duncanless San Antonio or a Utah Jazz but Memphis?

I really don't see how the comparison to Memphis is ridiculous. A true 7'0" isn't as important as guys make it out to be. Millsap is a younger version of Z-Bo. Horford plays similar offensively to Gasol and Gasol is forced out of the paint a lot because of Z-Bo. Memphis doesn't have a wing scorer, a 3pt threat, or a stand-out PG. We have two out of the three in just Lou. Memphis's foundation is Gasol and Z-Bo. After them, they had Prince, Allen, and Conley which are hardly offensive weapons. Their best bench guy was Pondexter. I see that we aren't as defensively sound as Memphis, but a lot of the great defenses throughout history start with the head coach demanding that. Chuck Daly and Larry Brown (I give Rick Carlisle credit too) in Detroit, Doc Rivers in Boston, and more presently Thibs in Chicago, Vogel in Indy, and Hollins in Memphis. The first thing Bud said was defense comes first and I believe that. Bud is also a guy that players respect.

I also think that you're putting a lot of pressure on a first year, first time coach. Let's understand Ferry for a minute. He wants to surround himself with people and schemes that he's comfortable with. I don't think Ferry has ever answered the question of winning and where it stands for him. OF course he wants to win, but when? As I look at our team, I don't think we have a core just yet. We're just showcasing talent for trade. He's going to trade and draft us into the future. That's what Sap's contract tells me.

I disagree with this too. Honestly, I believe the exact opposite is true. There is ZERO pressure on Bud this season. Ferry is his buddy and there isn't a fan in Atlanta that is expecting a whole lot out of this team, but when I look at this team and I see what Ferry is trying to do, it makes me believe we are Memphis. We have the post presence. We have the coaching staff. We have the no-quit players and guys that are ready to put on the hard hats. We are not going to be a team built through superstars. Memphis is who we are. And I believe Ferry wants to win now. He may not believe in win now as in win championships now, but you better believe Ferry wants to stay competitive and win games.

I think we will be competitive but ultimately, guys like Sap and maybe even Horf are on the move for the right price. Teague too. I think he will keep Dennis if Dennis shows that he can limit turnovers and run Bud's offense. So if you want to know what plan he's running, I would say he's doing Houston. Gathering assets and trying to win but knowing that anybody can be traded at any time to get the right thing.

Unfortunately, he has traded for Gortat and probably can't now, but I would easily give up a protected (5) first rounder for Gortat. When you look at everything Gortat does, it fits what we need both now and in the future. I would hate to see him try to get him in the offseason and lose out.

I can see this being true. I have been one of the one's that believe that a guy like Millsap was brought in to be flipped later. That contract just spells trade bait. Long ones like KK or Teague not so much, but Millsap yes and I believe the guy Ferry is targeting is either Asik () or Noah. Noah really depends on how well Rose comes back, how much Chicago would like a package of Asik/Carroll/picks (with Sap going to Houston), and how badly Ferry wants a center of Noah's caliber. I also believe Teague could be flipped for a wing guy. Then again, I could see the higher priced Horford being flipped.

With that said, when I look at the roster and compare it to Memphis, I still believe we are Memphis and I have yet to read a valid point that proves otherwise. What is Memphis?

[*]A team that's foundation is Gasol and Z-Bo.

[*]A team that is defense first

[*]A team that puts on the hard hats

[*]A team with a coach that demands the best out of his players

[*]A team that is inside-out

[*]A team that understands their roles

[*]A team with zero quit.

[*]A team without a wing scorer or 3pt threat.

How the Hawks currently stack up:

[*]A team that's foundation is Horford and Millsap.

[*]Although this tandem isn't as dominate on both ends as Gasol/Z-Bo, that play very similar games. Horford and Gasol play similarly offensively and Millsap plays the sandpaper post game and goes after rebounds like Z-Bo. Brand was brought in to give more post play too. Add Antić here as well.

[*]A team that is defense first and puts on the hard hats.

[*]This is the first thing that Bud preached in his introductory press conference and he is the type of coach to get the effort from his players to do work. This Hawks team also has the players that want to work and play D. KK, Millsap, Horford, Carroll, Brand, Jenkins, and Schröder will all have their hard hats on 82 games next season, barring injury.

[*]A team that is inside-out.

[*]This is why Josh and the Hawks parted ways for Millsap and Brand. To get a presence in the post that neither Horford or Josh gave us last season. We actually may be more effective at post offense than Memphis because we have the shooters to space the floor.

[*]A team that understands their roles.

[*]This is another reason why Josh was let go and we said sirenara to Droopy Drew. You better believe Ferry and Bud will have these guys playing to their potential and within their roles. Ferry already showed last season that this was important by bringing in Korver and Lou.

[*]A team with zero quit.

[*]This is the trait that all of us love about Horford. He is a winner with zero quit. Did Millsap quit vs. Miami? Does Korver ever stop? Do you think JYD is going to pack it in? This Hawks team has that same mentality.

[*]A team without a wing scorer or a 3pt threat.

[*]And this is the trait that the Hawks have the upper hand on because we have Lou Jenkins and Korver. The Hawks have shooters and are the better team offensively. Remember when Lou went gangbusters at Memphis in the 3rd quarter? We were matching their defense tick for tack, but we won the game because we had the scorers that Memphis doesn't.

We may not be a carbon copy of Memphis, but as currently constructed, we are very similar. I expect our team to be one of the big surprises of 2013. It kills me how many Hawks fans like to dog their family but praise the neighbors. Don't count this team as a lottery team/8th seed just yet... We very well could win 50 games next season. If LD could get a bunch of expiring contracts (an injury-prone team nonetheless) to win 44 games last season, you can't tell me that this team of hustle couldn't do better.

The 2013-14 Atlanta Hawks theme song:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=COk0R4QQPJU

Edited August 4, 2013 by PSSSHHHRRR87

[NBASupes]

I really don't see how the comparison to Memphis is ridiculous. A true 7'0" isn't as important as guys make it out to be. Millsap is a younger version of Z-Bo. Horford plays similar offensively to Gasol and Gasol is forced out of the paint a lot because of Z-Bo. Memphis doesn't have a wing scorer, a 3pt threat, or a stand-out PG. We have two out of the three in just Lou. Memphis's foundation is Gasol and Z-Bo. After them, they had Prince, Allen, and Conley which are hardly offensive weapons. Their best bench guy was Pondexter. I see that we aren't as defensively sound as Memphis, but a lot of the great defenses throughout history start with the head coach demanding that. Chuck Daly and Larry Brown (I give Rick Carlisle credit too) in Detroit, Doc Rivers in Boston, and more presently Thibs in Chicago, Vogel in Indy, and Hollins in Memphis. The first thing Bud said was defense comes first and I believe that. Bud is also a guy that players respect.

I disagree with this too. Honestly, I believe the exact opposite is true. There is ZERO pressure on Bud this season. Ferry is his buddy and there isn't a fan in Atlanta that is expecting a whole lot out of this team, but when I look at this team and I see what Ferry is trying to do, it makes me believe we are Memphis. We have the post presence. We have the coaching staff. We have the no-quit players and guys that are ready to put on the hard hats. We are not going to be a team built through superstars. Memphis is who we are. And I believe Ferry wants to win now. He may not believe in win now as in win championships now, but you better believe Ferry wants to stay competitive and win games.

I can see this being true. I have been one of the one's that believe that a guy like Millsap was brought in to be flipped later. That contract just spells trade bait. Long ones like KK or Teague not so much, but Millsap yes and I believe the guy Ferry is targeting is either Asik () or Noah. Noah really depends on how well Rose comes back, how much Chicago would like a package of Asik/Carroll/picks (with Sap going to Houston), and how badly Ferry wants a center of Noah's caliber. I also believe Teague could be flipped for a wing guy. Then again, I could see the higher priced Horford being flipped.

With that said, when I look at the roster and compare it to Memphis, I still believe we are Memphis and I have yet to read a valid point that proves otherwise. What is Memphis?

[*]A team that's foundation is Gasol and Z-Bo.

[*]A team that is defense first

[*]A team that puts on the hard hats

[*]A team with a coach that demands the best out of his players

[*]A team that is inside-out

[*]A team that understands their roles

[*]A team with zero quit.

[*]A team without a wing scorer or 3pt threat.

How the Hawks currently stack up:

[*]A team that's foundation is Horford and Millsap.

[*]Although this tandem isn't as dominate on both ends as Gasol/Z-Bo, that play very similar games. Horford and Gasol play similarly offensively and Millsap plays the sandpaper post game and goes after rebounds like Z-Bo. Brand was brought in to give more post play too. Add Antić here as well.

[*]A team that is defense first and puts on the hard hats.

[*]This is the first thing that Bud preached in his introductory press conference and he is the type of coach to get the effort from his players to do work. This Hawks team also has the players that want to work and play D. KK, Millsap, Horford, Carroll, Brand, Jenkins, and Schröder will all have their hard hats on 82 games next season, barring injury.

[*]A team that is inside-out.

[*]This is why Josh and the Hawks parted ways for Millsap and Brand. To get a presence in the post that neither Horford or Josh gave us last season. We actually may be more effective at post offense than Memphis because we have the shooters to space the floor.

[*]A team that understands their roles.

[*]This is another reason why Josh was let go and we said sirenara to Droopy Drew. You better believe Ferry and Bud will have these guys playing to their potential and within their roles. Ferry already showed last season that this was important by bringing in Korver and Lou.

[*]A team with zero quit.

[*]This is the trait that all of us love about Horford. He is a winner with zero quit. Did Millsap quit vs. Miami? Does Korver ever stop? Do you think JYD is going to pack it in? This Hawks team has that same mentality.

[*]A team without a wing scorer or a 3pt threat.

[*]And this is the trait that the Hawks have the upper hand on because we have Lou Jenkins and Korver. The Hawks have shooters and are the better team offensively. Remember when Lou went gangbusters at Memphis in the 3rd quarter? We were matching their defense tick for tack, but we won the game because we had the scorers that Memphis doesn't.

We may not be a carbon copy of Memphis, but as currently constructed, we are very similar. I expect our team to be one of the big surprises of 2013. It kills me how many Hawks fans like to dog their family but praise the neighbors. Don't count this team as a lottery team/8th seed just yet... We very well could win 50 games next season. If LD could get a bunch of expiring contracts (an injury-prone team nonetheless) to win 44 games last season, you can't tell me that this team of hustle couldn't do better.

The 2013-14 Atlanta Hawks theme song:

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=COk0R4QQPJU

Take it from someone who has watched Memphis a ton since 2008. They aren't nothing like Atlanta. Not this year, not last year, not two years ago or what not.

Conley is a pure PG who is one of the best PG's in the NBA bar none. We don't have that. Jeff is a talented tweener guard playing PG who is average at best as a starter. Dennis is a beast skill-set wise but he is not there yet.

Tony Allen is just a better overall player at this point than John Jenkins. Jenkins has a couple more years till he becomes a full contributor to us like T.A.

Korver while he is a very good role player and an excellent shooter doesn't doesn't provide the defense that a Tayshawn Prince brings to the table. Both players are very good role players.

Z-Bo is seen as a top 10 PF who is on the down swing but he is an excellent post scorer, rebounder, and he is a great passer as well. Now while his defense, atheltic ability and leave a lot to be desired, Millsap tends to eat in many of the spots Horford eats in and this could become a Melo-Amare offensive nightmare like in NYC but worse since Millsap and Horf are not as good of scorers as Amare and Melo. Millsap tends to struggle to create his own offense has does Horford. Both players will be in an offense where their playmaker in the starting lineup might be a below average to terrible playmaker in terms of creating for others.

Horford to Marc Gasol is tough because as an overall player, Al is better than Marc but as a center, Marc is better than Al. It's a give or take question and it really comes to who you have each player around to determine their impact. With Marc you have him in his natural position around Conley/Allen/Prince and Z-Bo. With Horf you have around Teague/Jenkins/Korver and Millsap. The winner is clearly Gasol just based on fit, chemistry, role, and position which favors Gasol.

As for Diesel's silly Gortat rants. It's stupid. Gortat is just a solid center and nothing more, while he would be a clear better value for us over Paul Millsap, it's disrespectful and idiotic to talk about him in a trade for a top tier NBA in Al Horford.

The biggest reasons why Atlanta isn't really close to Memphis is Memphis doesn't have a lack of chemistry. They fit, they all can play their positions, they generally score in different areas, they have a PG that can set everyone up for easy baskets, they play elite defense when their offense is closer to solid than it is to elite. Atlanta is far more comparable to a team this year like Milwaukee or Boston. This is one of those teams fighting for the 8th seed and likely to miss the playoffs completely.

Memphis has done reached their peak as a team and that's with banged up playoff teams in the west. The Grizzlies have went as far as they will go. They're like the late 90's Hawks in some ways. That team wasn't built for the playoffs either despite having good defense. Despite their defense and effort they will lose to a healthy Durant/Westbrook.

I do completely disagree. I don't see any comparisons. Conley was much better than Mookie was. Z-Bo and Marc Gasol was a much better tandem than anything we had in the 90's on the block. Allen and Prince was one of the best defensive wings I've seen in time and I loved Augmon who was top tier but even then Prince was better than Augmon was. Their bench was better than our bench then.

I had Memphis going to the WCF with Westbrook healthy. I don't know what you have been watching but they were the rich man's version of the those Hawks. Not those Hawks in general or that would have been a 8th seed or a boarderline playoff team in the West last year if they were.

[Plainview1981]

While I don't agree with the comparison, this is not right either. Memphis has everything you need to get to the next level. The abrupt coaching change will make all the difference in the world though. The Hawks have never been to a conference finals. Memphis has. And they can go back again. Even with Doc Rivers, a healthy OKC, and a Golden State team that's well coached, I don't see any way that Memphis is not back inthe WCF.

Memphis is not as good as people make out. Zebo isn't as good of a player as he used to be, Marc Gasol just looks strong in a league starving of centers, and Conley is a good but not great player. They have no star player, a mediocre offense and a lack of explosive players. A very overrated team.

C'mon! A SA team featuring two players that are well past their prime just made the finals and almost won the whole thing.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

Take it from someone who has watched Memphis a ton since 2008. They aren't nothing like Atlanta. Not this year, not last year, not two years ago or what not.

Conley is a pure PG who is one of the best PG's in the NBA bar none. We don't have that. Jeff is a talented tweener guard playing PG who is average at best as a starter. Dennis is a beast skill-set wise but he is not there yet.

Tony Allen is just a better overall player at this point than John Jenkins. Jenkins has a couple more years till he becomes a full contributor to us like T.A.

Korver while he is a very good role player and an excellent shooter doesn't doesn't provide the defense that a Tayshawn Prince brings to the table. Both players are very good role players.

Z-Bo is seen as a top 10 PF who is on the down swing but he is an excellent post scorer, rebounder, and he is a great passer as well. Now while his defense, atheltic ability and leave a lot to be desired, Millsap tends to eat in many of the spots Horford eats in and this could become a Melo-Amare offensive nightmare like in NYC but worse since Millsap and Horf are not as good of scorers as Amare and Melo. Millsap tends to struggle to create his own offense has does Horford. Both players will be in an offense where their playmaker in the starting lineup might be a below average to terrible playmaker in terms of creating for others.

Horford to Marc Gasol is tough because as an overall player, Al is better than Marc but as a center, Marc is better than Al. It's a give or take question and it really comes to who you have each player around to determine their impact. With Marc you have him in his natural position around Conley/Allen/Prince and Z-Bo. With Horf you have around Teague/Jenkins/Korver and Millsap. The winner is clearly Gasol just based on fit, chemistry, role, and position which favors Gasol.

As for Diesel's silly Gortat rants. It's stupid. Gortat is just a solid center and nothing more, while he would be a clear better value for us over Paul Millsap, it's disrespectful and idiotic to talk about him in a trade for a top tier NBA in Al Horford.

The biggest reasons why Atlanta isn't really close to Memphis is Memphis doesn't have a lack of chemistry. They fit, they all can play their positions, they generally score in different areas, they have a PG that can set everyone up for easy baskets, they play elite defense when their offense is closer to solid than it is to elite. Atlanta is far more comparable to a team this year like Milwaukee or Boston. This is one of those teams fighting for the 8th seed and likely to miss the playoffs completely.

I do completely disagree. I don't see any comparisons. Conley was much better than Mookie was. Z-Bo and Marc Gasol was a much better tandem than anything we had in the 90's on the block. Allen and Prince was one of the best defensive wings I've seen in time and I loved Augmon who was top tier but even then Prince was better than Augmon was. Their bench was better than our bench then.

I had Memphis going to the WCF with Westbrook healthy. I don't know what you have been watching but they were the rich man's version of the those Hawks. Not those Hawks in general or that would have been a 8th seed or a boarderline playoff team in the West last year if they were.

The bottom line is production is what matters. Deke was a better player than Gasol is now. Gasol is a fairly weak rebounding center who might have some offensive skills, but he settles for just being an ok offensive player overall. Even on a team starving for scoring. Conley is one of the more overrated players in the game. He is a good PG and a good defensive player, but nothing more. He is not an explosive player in any sense of the word. Sorry, but I'm way more scared of a Westbrook than I am a Conley. People obsess over pure PG's, but they haven't won shit in recent years.

Memphis is the most overrated team in the NBA. C'mon, these mediocre Hawk teams seemingly beat them nearly every time we play them.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[NBASupes]

Memphis is not as good as people make out. Zebo isn't as good of a player as he used to be, Marc Gasol just looks strong in a league starving of centers, and Conley is a good but not great player. They have no star player, a mediocre offense and a lack of explosive players. A very overrated team.

C'mon! A SA team featuring two players that are well past their prime just made the finals and almost won the whole thing.

Naw, they are better than what you think they are. They are one of the best teams in the NBA. Conley is a very good player and he is a great pure PG. Z-Bo is regressing and the center position is much stronger right now than the SG position and most of the playoffs teams who had success has one. Elite defense, solid offense, had good coaching and they fit. They are one of the best teams in the NBA and I had them in the WCF regardless of Westbrook's injury.

[Plainview1981]

Naw, they are better than what you think they are. They are one of the best teams in the NBA. Conley is a very good player and he is a great pure PG. Z-Bo is regressing and the center position is much stronger right now than the SG position and most of the playoffs teams who had success has one. Elite defense, solid offense, had good coaching and they fit. They are one of the best teams in the NBA and I had them in the WCF regardless of Westbrook's injury.

If they are better than what I thought they were they would have made the finals. But they got swept. Swept by a good but declining Duncan, a Mano who now sucks, a hobbled TP and a bunch of decent role players.

I will say that they're only one player away. They need an explosive scorer. The rest of the pieces complement each other well enough to win a title if they had that explosive scorer.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Hotlanta1981

[NBASupes]

The bottom line is production is what matters. Deke was a better player than Gasol is now. Gasol is a fairly weak rebounding center who might have some offensive skills, but he settles for just being an ok offensive player overall. Even on a team starving for scoring. Conley is one of the more overrated players in the game. He is a good PG and a good defensive player, but nothing more. He is not an explosive player in any sense of the word. Sorry, but I'm way more scared of a Westbrook than I am a Conley. People obsess over pure PG's, but they haven't won shit in recent years.

Memphis is the most overrated team in the NBA. C'mon, these mediocre Hawk teams seemingly beat them nearly every time we play them.

I'll take Marc Gasol all day over Deke. That is not disrespect to Deke, Gasol has always been one of my favorite players. His BBIQ, passing skill, post skill, solid range for a big, and BBIQ has always impressed me. We can agree to disagree but as someone who has watched both play a lot, I like Marc more.

You are completely understating how Marc clears out space for others Allen, Prince, Conley and Z-bo as well as others to get rebounds. That is critical. If you don't watch Memphis then you wouldn't understand. Gasol isn't a player you look at to give you more than 10 shots per game but you an give him a lot of touches because of his court vision, his BBIQ, and his decision making skills. Another thing you are completely underating or understating. I really don't think you watch the Grizzles much Hots. You are generally on top of things in general.

Conley isn't an explosive player, that much is obvious. What he is, is a high BBIQ, very good defensive, playmaking, can adjust to any system, true PG. One of the best in the NBA. He is rated at the 10th most impactful player in the NBA tied with Kobe Bryant. That is much higher than anyone on either team with Gasol being 2nd. Now Horf could be much higher in the right role and personnel which he clearly isn't in since he is still a C by the depth chart and he is still playing without a true PG and it's even worse now that Smoove is gone.

True PG's haven't won shit in years? Conley just went to the WCF has his team's best player. I haven't seen guys like Rose do much better than that. You are overprojecting some bullshit right now bro.

Memphis is one of the best teams in the NBA. They proved it last year and will prove it again next year.

[NBASupes]

If they are better than what I thought they were they would have made the finals. But they got swept. Swept by a good but declining Duncan, a Mano who now sucks, a hobbled TP and a bunch of decent role players.

I will say that they're only one player away. They need an explosive scorer. The rest of the pieces complement each other well enough to win a title if they had that explosive scorer.

They were in just about very game. They just couldn't finish and their bench would get them smoked. The Spurs were just a better team and the proved that much. There are two types of sweeps. One where the other team is just better and the other where you are completely overmatched.

If Memphis can get an 6th man and they can get another shooter, they will be fine. Bayless is solid as a backup but they can improve and use Bayless as a combo guard.

[Plainview1981]

I'll take Marc Gasol all day over Deke. That is not disrespect to Deke, Gasol has always been one of my favorite players. His BBIQ, passing skill, post skill, solid range for a big, and BBIQ has always impressed me. We can agree to disagree but as someone who has watched both play a lot, I like Marc more.

You are completely understating how Marc clears out space for others Allen, Prince, Conley and Z-bo as well as others to get rebounds. That is critical. If you don't watch Memphis then you wouldn't understand. Gasol isn't a player you look at to give you more than 10 shots per game but you an give him a lot of touches because of his court vision, his BBIQ, and his decision making skills. Another thing you are completely underating or understating. I really don't think you watch the Grizzles much Hots. You are generally on top of things in general.

Conley isn't an explosive player, that much is obvious. What he is, is a high BBIQ, very good defensive, playmaking, can adjust to any system, true PG. One of the best in the NBA. He is rated at the 10th most impactful player in the NBA tied with Kobe Bryant. That is much higher than anyone on either team with Gasol being 2nd. Now Horf could be much higher in the right role and personnel which he clearly isn't in since he is still a C by the depth chart and he is still playing without a true PG and it's even worse now that Smoove is gone.

True PG's haven't won shit in years? Conley just went to the WCF has his team's best player. I haven't seen guys like Rose do much better than that. You are overprojecting some bullshit right now bro.

Memphis is one of the best teams in the NBA. They proved it last year and will prove it again next year.

I will agree with you that Gasol is more SKILLED. But Gasol doesn't fully take advantage of his talents. He doesn't rebound nor score like he is capable of. He should be at 18/9 at least. Even after Gay was traded he didn't raise his game like Al did the second half of last season. Gasol is a better talent than Deke, no doubt. I'm not saying he has to be be a 25/10 big man, but while he does the little things he should be more productive than he is. It was the same thing with guys like Sheed.

Memphis is a solid defensive playoff team that lacks that ONE player to make them a championship threat. Until they get that player or/and get to the finals and prove me wrong, I'm not changing my opinion.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Take it from someone who has watched Memphis a ton since 2008. They aren't nothing like Atlanta. Not this year, not last year, not two years ago or what not.

Conley is a pure PG who is one of the best PG's in the NBA bar none. We don't have that. Jeff is a talented tweener guard playing PG who is average at best as a starter. Dennis is a beast skill-set wise but he is not there yet.

Conley is the true PG and is the better PG when considering PG attributes. When consider things like passing ability, PnR offense, being a floor general, etc., Conley wins hands down (I was a big advocate of the Hawks drafting Conley over Horford in that '07 draft), but if you consider intangibles and bonuses, Teague is the better player. In this league of Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, and Chris Paul, teams need PG's that can also score the basketball. When considering scoring and intangibles, Teague is the better player. Conley doesn't shoot well although he is the Grizz's best 3pt shooter (0.371). Conley doesn't have a first move. Conley doesn't have blazing speed or hops for a PG. Conley doesn't play good 1-on-1 defense. Conley and Teague were AAU buddies in Indy, but their games are very different. Honestly, I think Conley would do better in Atlanta and Teague in Memphis. Memphis needs another scorer out on the floor and Conley needs more scorers around him.

Horford to Marc Gasol is tough because as an overall player, Al is better than Marc but as a center, Marc is better than Al. It's a give or take question and it really comes to who you have each player around to determine their impact. With Marc you have him in his natural position around Conley/Allen/Prince and Z-Bo. With Horf you have around Teague/Jenkins/Korver and Millsap. The winner is clearly Gasol just based on fit, chemistry, role, and position which favors Gasol.

I agree that defense is a quality that all centers need and Al lacks the physicality that it takes to be a great center on defense in the league but I believe that why guys like Sap, Antić, Ayón, and Brand were brought in. To give us that physicality and to give Al a break from the bigger centers. On offense though, Horford is the clear favorite because of his grid shooting and abiltiy in the PnR, PnP, and high-low. His athleticism also gives him an edge.

Tony Allen is just a better overall player at this point than John Jenkins. Jenkins has a couple more years till he becomes a full contributor to us like T.A.

Completely agree here but this is sort of apples to oranges. Jenkins is nothing more than a 3pt specialist while TA is a defensive specialist. My argument is that Carroll could be our TA. Our guy that has that dog in him that we put on the LeBron's of the league. That guy that we use to shut a hot streak down and a guy that the team rallies behind. Denver has Faried. Chicago has Noah and Indy has Stephenson. Every team needs that guy like Carroll.

Korver while he is a very good role player and an excellent shooter doesn't doesn't provide the defense that a Tayshawn Prince brings to the table. Both players are very good role players.

I have watched Pistons basketball since I was old enough to understand that the flashing light coming from that box was my dad watching Laimbeer nail Larry Bird to the floor. Tayshaun is one of those players that have revolutionized the game. Before Tayshaun, teams would just conceed the fast break lay up. That block on Reggie Miller sent shockwaves throughout the NBA but I can tell you that Tayshaun hasn't been that great defender that locked down Kobe in the '04 Finals for two seasons now. He isn't a scorer nor is he as quick as Korver. Korver gives effort every single play. If you consider what both guys bring, I'd give the slimest of edges to Korver, just because he has that ability to be a game changer. I keep going back to the 101-100 win over Washington where he nailed the game winner. Tayshaun couldn't do that.

Z-Bo is seen as a top 10 PF who is on the down swing but he is an excellent post scorer, rebounder, and he is a great passer as well. Now while his defense, atheltic ability and leave a lot to be desired, Millsap tends to eat in many of the spots Horford eats in and this could become a Melo-Amare offensive nightmare like in NYC but worse since Millsap and Horf are not as good of scorers as Amare and Melo. Millsap tends to struggle to create his own offense has does Horford. Both players will be in an offense where their playmaker in the starting lineup might be a below average to terrible playmaker in terms of creating for others.

I know what Z-Bo does because I too watch a hand full of Grizz games every season and also had him on my fantasy team last season. The guy is a dub-dub machine but I still believe that Millsap favors Z-Bo's game over Horfords. Millsap lives and breathes on rebounds and second chance points. Millsap lives inside while Horford hangs in the mid-range. Also, Horford has more athleticism than Millsap. Yes, Millsap does shoot the ball well, but I don't believe that is what Millsap will do. I see a lot of Sap's points coming on rebounds, from the FT line, and from about 7 feet away. Horford lives about 15 feet away on the right side of the court. Sap favors the baseline.

Paul Millsap's Shooting Heat Map per BB Ref:

Horford's Heat Map per BB Ref:

This shows that most of Millsap's time is spent under the hoop and on the baselines while Horford tends to float around in the high post.

As for Diesel's silly Gortat rants. It's stupid. Gortat is just a solid center and nothing more, while he would be a clear better value for us over Paul Millsap, it's disrespectful and idiotic to talk about him in a trade for a top tier NBA in Al Horford.

Seriously. I get so tired of hearing folks say "Let's trade for Gortat!" or "Let's trade for Asik!". Neither of those guys are going to do diddly squat for us moving towards a title. Those guys are nothing more than a couple of serviceable centers that'll get you a few blocks and rebounds. Neither brings the post scoring or an edge to the Hawks. Neither give us that "x factor" that a Cousins or Noah would bring.

The biggest reasons why Atlanta isn't really close to Memphis is Memphis doesn't have a lack of chemistry. They fit, they all can play their positions, they generally score in different areas, they have a PG that can set everyone up for easy baskets, they play elite defense when their offense is closer to solid than it is to elite. Atlanta is far more comparable to a team this year like Milwaukee or Boston. This is one of those teams fighting for the 8th seed and likely to miss the playoffs completely.

Chemistry will come with time and all of the guys on this roster are guys that understand their roles. No more ISO-Joe or mid-range shawty. No more lackluster coaching staffs. Coach Bud will be a boss first to these guys. Every player on this team are effiecient players. No chuckers. No selfish, me-first attitudes. Just a team of hustlers. Milwaukee and Boston are teams that are in shambles going through rebuilds. Neither teams having a standout player. Atlanta has Horford. I believe with Milwaukee taking two steps back, Boston jumping off a bridge, and the level of uncertainity with Rose & Bynum, Atlanta could very well be a team anywhere from a 4th seed to a 9th seed. I will guarantee this though: we will win games. I'm seeing us at 46 wins next season and a 7th seed.

[NBASupes]

I will agree with you that Gasol is more SKILLED. But Gasol doesn't fully take advantage of his talents. He doesn't rebound nor score like he is capable of. He should be at 18/9 at least. Even after Gay was traded he didn't raise his game like Al did the second half of last season. Gasol is a better talent than Deke, no doubt. I'm not saying he has to be be a 25/10 big man, but while he does the little things he should be more productive than he is. It was the same thing with guys like Sheed.

Memphis is a solid defensive playoff team that lacks that ONE player to make them a championship threat. Until they get that player or/and get to the finals and prove me wrong, I'm not changing my opinion.

Gasol does score like he is capable of. He is not a #1 option as a big. He is a #2 who plays complete team basketball. Z-Bo and Conley are more of #1 options than Gasol. Gasol is just fine on the boards as long as he is creating room for his teammates who are generally plus rebounders to get boards.

Gasol defense was even better with Gay traded. Gasol passing was more impactful as well. Just watch the games. If you can try to get access to them. Gasol was more impactful after the trade than before the trade.

They just lack bench depth like Indiana. They have added Miller, Davis and Bayless is older, they are moving Q into the starting five and they are looking at finally getting that 6th man they seriously need in Mo Williams. Their starting five is good enough.

[turnermx]

If Memphis' Gasol asyou correctly point out, can improve after a shot chucker departs why cant Atlanta's Horford ?Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[NBASupes]

Conley is the true PG and is the better PG when considering PG attributes. When consider things like passing ability, PnR offense, being a floor general, etc., Conley wins hands down (I was a big advocate of the Hawks drafting Conley over Horford in that '07 draft), but if you consider intangibles and bonuses, Teague is the better player. In this league of Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, and Chris Paul, teams need PG's that can also score the basketball. When considering scoring and intangibles, Teague is the better player. Conley doesn't shoot well although he is the Grizz's best 3pt shooter (0.371). Conley doesn't have a first move. Conley doesn't have blazing speed or hops for a PG. Conley doesn't play good 1-on-1 defense. Conley and Teague were AAU buddies in Indy, but their games are very different. Honestly, I think Conley would do better in Atlanta and Teague in Memphis. Memphis needs another scorer out on the floor and Conley needs more scorers around him.

I agree that defense is a quality that all centers need and Al lacks the physicality that it takes to be a great center on defense in the league but I believe that why guys like Sap, Antić, Ayón, and Brand were brought in. To give us that physicality and to give Al a break from the bigger centers. On offense though, Horford is the clear favorite because of his grid shooting and abiltiy in the PnR, PnP, and high-low. His athleticism also gives him an edge.

Completely agree here but this is sort of apples to oranges. Jenkins is nothing more than a 3pt specialist while TA is a defensive specialist. My argument is that Carroll could be our TA. Our guy that has that dog in him that we put on the LeBron's of the league. That guy that we use to shut a hot streak down and a guy that the team rallies behind. Denver has Faried. Chicago has Noah and Indy has Stephenson. Every team needs that guy like Carroll.

I have watched Pistons basketball since I was old enough to understand that the flashing light coming from that box was my dad watching Laimbeer nail Larry Bird to the floor. Tayshaun is one of those players that have revolutionized the game. Before Tayshaun, teams would just conceed the fast break lay up. That block on Reggie Miller sent shockwaves throughout the NBA but I can tell you that Tayshaun hasn't been that great defender that locked down Kobe in the '04 Finals for two seasons now. He isn't a scorer nor is he as quick as Korver. Korver gives effort every single play. If you consider what both guys bring, I'd give the slimest of edges to Korver, just because he has that ability to be a game changer. I keep going back to the 101-100 win over Washington where he nailed the game winner. Tayshaun couldn't do that.

I know what Z-Bo does because I too watch a hand full of Grizz games every season and also had him on my fantasy team last season. The guy is a dub-dub machine but I still believe that Millsap favors Z-Bo's game over Horfords. Millsap lives and breathes on rebounds and second chance points. Millsap lives inside while Horford hangs in the mid-range. Also, Horford has more athleticism than Millsap. Yes, Millsap does shoot the ball well, but I don't believe that is what Millsap will do. I see a lot of Sap's points coming on rebounds, from the FT line, and from about 7 feet away. Horford lives about 15 feet away on the right side of the court. Sap favors the baseline.

Paul Millsap's Shooting Heat Map per BB Ref:

Horford's Heat Map per BB Ref:

This shows that most of Millsap's time is spent under the hoop and on the baselines while Horford tends to float around in the high post.

Seriously. I get so tired of hearing folks say "Let's trade for Gortat!" or "Let's trade for Asik!". Neither of those guys are going to do diddly squat for us moving towards a title. Those guys are nothing more than a couple of serviceable centers that'll get you a few blocks and rebounds. Neither brings the post scoring or an edge to the Hawks. Neither give us that "x factor" that a Cousins or Noah would bring.

Chemistry will come with time and all of the guys on this roster are guys that understand their roles. No more ISO-Joe or mid-range shawty. No more lackluster coaching staffs. Coach Bud will be a boss first to these guys. Every player on this team are effiecient players. No chuckers. No selfish, me-first attitudes. Just a team of hustlers. Milwaukee and Boston are teams that are in shambles going through rebuilds. Neither teams having a standout player. Atlanta has Horford. I believe with Milwaukee taking two steps back, Boston jumping off a bridge, and the level of uncertainity with Rose & Bynum, Atlanta could very well be a team anywhere from a 4th seed to a 9th seed. I will guarantee this though: we will win games. I'm seeing us at 46 wins next season and a 7th seed.

WTF?!? Teague has better intangibles than Conley? What the f**k have you been smoking? That might take the cake for the dumbest sh*t I've seen on HS. There is really no part of the game outside of speed and explosive where Jeff is better than Mike at. Just about everything, Mike is much better than Jeff as a PG. Jeff has a quicker first step, maybe that as well. lol, that shit was so out of this world retarded I spit out my water all over my screen when I read that BS. You smoking some of that 90's charm. Got you all f**ked up right now bro. What's next outside of defense and BBIQ, Petro is better than Dwight Howard? You gonna tell me that Petro is better at shot blocking than Howard? Please keep Jeff in his league of guys like Felton, Calderon, and Jameer Nelson. Don't try to put him in a range he just isn't in as a starting PG and never will be. Then you said Conley don't even play good 1v1 defense?!? Wow! You really don't know what the hell you are talking about. Are you going to convince me that Mitch Richmond is better than Michael Jordan as well?

I am not going to reply to the rest. I am convince you are stupid as shit at this monment and I thinking about putting on the list with NJHAWK and Diesel. At least you are a good guy and I like you. You just don't know what you are talking about. I like you so I will just take a couple days to avoid your posts and then when I think you are ready, I will reply to your other posts but shit like this thread man. It's really bad. You need to chill. This shit would make you look like an instant idiot on any board not called hawksquawk.

Sad thing is I just peeped your Millsap part and it is not that bad at all but your Conley part just f**ked it all up for me. It was off the wall stupid.

[NBASupes]

If Memphis' Gasol asyou correctly point out, can improve after a shot chucker departs why cant Atlanta's Horford ?Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Because that shot chucker was our best passer and had the best court vision on the team. Now we did add someone who has much better passing and court vision than Smoove in Dennis but Dennis isn't expected to play more than 10-15 MPG as a rookie. On the top of that, that shot chucker was also our best defensive player and he was our defensive anchor.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

WTF?!? Teague has better intangibles than Conley? What the f**k have you been smoking? That might take the cake for the dumbest sh*t I've seen on HS. There is really no part of the game outside of speed and explosive where Jeff is better than Mike at. Just about everything, Mike is much better than Jeff as a PG. Jeff has a quicker first step, maybe that as well. lol, that shit was so out of this world retarded I spit out my water all over my screen when I read that BS. You smoking some of that 90's charm. Got you all f**ked up right now bro. What's next outside of defense and BBIQ, Petro is better than Dwight Howard? You gonna tell me that Petro is better at shot blocking than Howard? Please keep Jeff in his league of guys like Felton, Calderon, and Jameer Nelson. Don't try to put him in a range he just isn't in as a starting PG and never will be. Then you said Conley don't even play good 1v1 defense?!? Wow! You really don't know what the hell you are talking about. Are you going to convince me that Mitch Richmond is better than Michael Jordan as well?

I am not going to reply to the rest. I am convince you are stupid as shit at this monment and I thinking about putting on the list with NJHAWK and Diesel. At least you are a good guy and I like you. You just don't know what you are talking about. I like you so I will just take a couple days to avoid your posts and then when I think you are ready, I will reply to your other posts but shit like this thread man. It's really bad. You need to chill. This shit would make you look like an instant idiot on any board not called hawksquawk.

Temper, temper. And you are making Conley out to be some all-world PG, so I'd say you need to lay off the kush too. Acting like he is in the same league as Paul, Stockton, or Nash. You're constant BS about Teague not being "true PG" is just as tiring. Just because he doesn't showcase a great passing ability or aptitude in PnR offense doesn't make Teague a bad player. You need to go back and re-read my post because that is my point. Conley is the better PG, but Teague is the better player. My point wasn't to make Teague out to be elite. Honestly, I think Lawson and Lowry are better "PG" than Teague ATM, but considering what Teague can bring to an offense with his shooting, scoring, speed, and athleticism, Teague is the better player. And you can't tell me that Conley hasn't benefitted from having Tony Allen and Gasol behind him on defense the last season while Jeff had to deal with KK, Lou, and Jenkins at 2 guard. I am waiting to see Jeff play without having Smoove to defer too.

Mods, don't worry about the name calling... I'm a big boy and this is the reason why I prefer road games over home games... The heckling and argument and calling someone a f'ing retard. lol Please don't lock this thread.