Walter Tavares looking good

[mrhonline]

I like Tavares over Bebe from what I've seen. Doesn't change that fact Ferry wasted a 1st round pick for nothing. Guys like Hardaway, Dieng, and Snell would be welcome additions to the team.

 

While I don't know if I agree with it, the "Ferry got poor ROI for Bebe" argument is sound in theory.

 

The "Oh, let's look back 6 months after the draft and make a list of all the players that were better" argument is NOT. For one, it ignores all the other players who were NOT better than the player drafted. Two, it ignores all the contextual information you need to compare draftees like age, system, minutes available, etc.

 

A much better way of evaluating draft picks is to 1.) wait at least two years before evaluating (if not three years), and 2.) look at the value achieved relative to the pick number and specific draft.

[turnermx]

Player               G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

Walter Tavares  5    0  17.6 0.765    0 0.857 1.8     2.2   4.0    0.2      0 1.4    1.2 2.6 6.4

Lucas Nogueira 5    3  20.4 0.533    0 0.75   1.4     4.4   5.8    1.2   0.6 0.6    2.0 2.8 5.0            

 

 

Just summer league, but I would say Walt is holding up pretty well vs Bebe. I think he is more NBA ready although Lucas' stats aren't too shabby. He is doing well on the defensive rebounds but he is not getting many blocked shots. Sorry about the formatting, for some reason the Raptors stats in summer league were done differently.

Edited July 19, 2014 by turnermx

[GrimeyKidd]

Player G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

Walter Tavares 5 0 17.6 0.765 0 0.857 1.8 2.2 4.0 0.2 0 1.4 1.2 2.6 6.4

Lucas Nogueira 5 3 20.4 0.533 0 0.75 1.4 4.4 5.8 1.2 0.6 0.6 2.0 2.8 5.0

Just summer league, but I would say Walt is holding up pretty well vs Bebe. I think he is more NBA ready although Lucas' stats aren't too shabby. He is doing well on the defensive rebounds but he is not getting many blocked shots. Sorry about the formatting, for some reason the Raptors stats in summer league were done differently.

if we got to play the raptors this wouldn't even be a argument. Edy would out play him

[DrReality]

He reminds me of the white guy who played for Dallas. Forget his name

[yungsta]

He reminds me of the white guy who played for Dallas. Forget his name

Shawn Bradley?

[NBASupes]

This probably is fair.  That said, one could argue that A) Bebe is the only mistake Ferry has made.  B) Ferry might be actually doing the smart thing by considering Bebe a "sunk cost", cutting his losses, and unloading him now knowing he is gonna be injury-laden and/or unproductive.

 

Obviously, efficiency wasn't "maximized" with the Bebe selection, but considering it was a "weak" draft, I'm okay if we took a shot at a player with upside that we didn't realize has injury issues, and I'm especially cool with it if all this early Wally talk is legit--sounds like he might actually have some real promise.

Ferry made more mistakes than just trading Bebe. His biggest mistake was clearly missing on this FA class. Then drafting Payne wasn't a great idea, could have moved up but he probably assumed he could land Deng. Jenkins wasn't a great idea due to injuries.

 

But this missing on this FA class was his biggest failure bar none that will hurt this team as much as passing on CP3/Deron for Marvin. I will make a thread about it as well to further explain as well.

[GrimeyKidd]

Ferry made more mistakes than just trading Bebe. His biggest mistake was clearly missing on this FA class. Then drafting Payne wasn't a great idea, could have moved up but he probably assumed he could land Deng. Jenkins wasn't a great idea due to injuries.

But this missing on this FA class was his biggest failure bar none that will hurt this team as much as passing on CP3/Deron for Marvin. I will make a thread about it as well to further explain as well.

bananas. Edy looks great. I wish there was some kind of league that plays at the same pace

[NBASupes]

bananas. Edy looks great. I wish there was some kind of league that plays at the same pace

It's crazy to say Danny is a good GM. Right now, he's a failure.

 

Edy is an intriguing prospect. He's not in the league of Bebe. Watching Bebe in TOR, he's not in that league. But he has a NBA future and has a high ceiling. To say he has a higher ceiling then Bebe is a lie but to say he doesn't is also a lie.

 

With that said, Edy is an intriguing prospect.

[skimaskway23]

How is ferry a failure if the free agents we want are not available?

[turnermx]

Bebe hasnt really played that well defensively, sure he has a few highlights but for the most part he has been way out of position on defense. edy has been playing with higher IQ on both ends of the floor than Bebe. Bebe is a better athlete but doesnt have the frame to put weight on.

[NBASupes]

How is ferry a failure if the free agents we want are not available?

They were available, we didn't get them.

[tonegully]

They were available, we didn't get them.

Seriously? They were available, They DIDNT WANT COME TO HERE. At least get it right.

[tonegully]

It's crazy to say Danny is a good GM. Right now, he's a failure.

 

Edy is an intriguing prospect. He's not in the league of Bebe. Watching Bebe in TOR, he's not in that league. But he has a NBA future and has a high ceiling. To say he has a higher ceiling then Bebe is a lie but to say he doesn't is also a lie.

 

With that said, Edy is an intriguing prospect.

Danny isn't a failure. 

 

You really think Bebe is better than Edy, I don't know what SL games you were watching. Bebe hasn't improved one bit from last SL to this SL. He is better than Bebe right now and has a higher ceiling than Bebe. Im just waiting for Bebe to play in the NBA to see him get pushed around in the paint. 

 

Edy is a GREAT prospect. 

[tonegully]

Ferry made more mistakes than just trading Bebe. His biggest mistake was clearly missing on this FA class. Then drafting Payne wasn't a great idea, could have moved up but he probably assumed he could land Deng. Jenkins wasn't a great idea due to injuries.

 

But this missing on this FA class was his biggest failure bar none that will hurt this team as much as passing on CP3/Deron for Marvin. I will make a thread about it as well to further explain as well.

LMAO. How did he miss on this FA class? THEY DIDNT WANT TO COME HERE!!! What part of that don't you understand? He made the moves to get the cap space. He was willing to overpay on Gasol and they didnt want to come play for our Hawks,but its Ferry's fault.

I don't remember anyone saying Jenkins was injury prone before the draft. You are saying it like Ferry knew Jenkins had a major back issue and drafted him anyways.

This is no where near CP3/Deron the biggest difference is ATL was in the position to pick who they wanted to play for them. Free Agents pick where and who they want to play for.

[NBASupes]

Danny isn't a failure. 

 

You really think Bebe is better than Edy, I don't know what SL games you were watching. Bebe hasn't improved one bit from last SL to this SL. He is better than Bebe right now and has a higher ceiling than Bebe. Im just waiting for Bebe to play in the NBA to see him get pushed around in the paint. 

 

Edy is a GREAT prospect. 

I'll address Danny in a much larger post explaining all angles later.

 

As for Bebe and Edy. Yes, Bebe is better. You be saying crazy homer stuff. I just read your post on realgm. Sorry breh, but you tend to be a homer when it comes to this team. I am not. I think we have decent depth and I willing to give them a chance. You assume it's crazy depth. Sorry but you don't trade a former 6th man of the yr, a center with upside for nothing and add a SG for 2 mil and a SF for 4 mil and think our depth is going to be crazy. Sorry, I am not buying it.

[DrReality]

He just seems to have basketball sense.  The mistakes he makes can be corrected with coaching.  The next year and his development will be criitical.  Will be interesting to see what Ferry plans. 

[bumpyphish1]

Ferry made more mistakes than just trading Bebe. His biggest mistake was clearly missing on this FA class. Then drafting Payne wasn't a great idea, could have moved up but he probably assumed he could land Deng. Jenkins wasn't a great idea due to injuries.

 

But this missing on this FA class was his biggest failure bar none that will hurt this team as much as passing on CP3/Deron for Marvin. I will make a thread about it as well to further explain as well.

 

Ferry should not be blamed for players not wanting to sign in ATL.

[sturt]

He just seems to have basketball sense.  The mistakes he makes can be corrected with coaching.  The next year and his development will be criitical.  Will be interesting to see what Ferry plans. 

 

Coaching, yes, and a strength trainer. He's never going to be credited with Olajuwon's athleticism or with Chamberlain's physicality (... that's a real word now, right?... ) but he does have an intriguing touch as a shooter, a very coordinated form at the foul line that gets results, and an ability to block shots... there's some tools there to work with, and a body frame that unlike Bebe's can accommodate some more muscle weight.

[DatWerkk]

Edy is a bona fide rim protector. Anybody else remember that play against the Rockets where the caused an up-and-down traveling violation because he simply swallowed up that poor guard?

I'd love to see Bebe do that.

[Brokentree]

Ferry trading away Bebe because he wants to move on is one thing.  Trading him away for absolutely nothing is the first real issue I've had with anything Ferry has done so far.  There is still some hype with Bebe and some potential.  You have to try to get more for him.

 

Edy has a long way to go.  You can kind of see the gears turning in his head when he's out on the floor.  The effort he puts out on the court seems solid and you can tell he's upset with himself when he does make mistakes so I think he's aware of what he should be doing out there.  He just really needs a lot of good coaching and playing time to train himself to do things without thinking about it first.