RedDawg#8 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Not just make the ECF but show well. Itd be almost counter productive to finaly make it and get swept or lose in five. The added attention would make the embraressment even worse than losing in 7 games in the 2nd round Edited July 31, 2014 by RedDawg#8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbhawksfan Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Even most squawkers accept losing as a good job. That isnt a winning culture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted July 31, 2014 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 In the same way that a host "gives" another a parasite lol We can try to spin it anyway possible. Until the end of this season, BKLYN is still winning in that trade. Here's the thing. We gave Philly Deke. Nothing about that trade benefited us. All benefits were to Philly who immediately went to the NBA finals with Deke as the defensive anchor. We gave Smitty to PTL. The bottom line is that Smitty went on to win a championship. That means that he had game left in his tank. IF not for the screwjob, he would have made it to the finals with PTL. We got nothing from this deal. 1/2 a season of Rider and 1 season with Jackson. We gave Detroit Rasheed. I used to could stomach that because we got Josh out of the deal. However, we let Josh walk for nothing when he still had value. We gave Indy Al Harrington for Acie Law. Harrington was a low post star for us. We gave Washington: Jordan Crawford, Mike Bibby, Evans, and #18 pick in the 2011 draft for Hinrich and Armstrong. Then there was Brooklyn. It just seems like for so long, we have been on the losing side of these trades. We can't expect to just receive respect in trades when we have already shown that we will trade away prospects for nothing. Bebe. Or we will make deals for capspace that won't help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted July 31, 2014 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Even most squawkers accept losing as a good job. That isnt a winning culture A thirsty man sees a wet grain of sand as being something that's good. Ferry's talk of a winning culture and a culture change is not new to those of us who remember the sayings of BK. However, all we have ever done is lose. IF we ever get out of the second round of the playoffs, that team will go down in History as the best Hawks team ever. The Bar is that low. So us being competitive against superior talent is a win. Just like Leonidas and his 300. We're going in overmatched. Overmatched by history, overmatched by talent, overmatched by the media..... So us eeking out just a little respect in the matchup makes some of us feel pride. Even in losing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerrypack Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 horf or sap aren't players you give away on the cheap. you get better players for high character, good locker room guys with good contracts. Atlanta made quite a few very dumb decisions during the 99-03 period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted July 31, 2014 Moderators Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 We can try to spin it anyway possible. Until the end of this season, BKLYN is still winning in that trade. Here's the thing. We gave Philly Deke. Nothing about that trade benefited us. All benefits were to Philly who immediately went to the NBA finals with Deke as the defensive anchor. We gave Smitty to PTL. The bottom line is that Smitty went on to win a championship. That means that he had game left in his tank. IF not for the screwjob, he would have made it to the finals with PTL. We got nothing from this deal. 1/2 a season of Rider and 1 season with Jackson. We gave Detroit Rasheed. I used to could stomach that because we got Josh out of the deal. However, we let Josh walk for nothing when he still had value. We gave Indy Al Harrington for Acie Law. Harrington was a low post star for us. We gave Washington: Jordan Crawford, Mike Bibby, Evans, and #18 pick in the 2011 draft for Hinrich and Armstrong. Then there was Brooklyn. It just seems like for so long, we have been on the losing side of these trades. We can't expect to just receive respect in trades when we have already shown that we will trade away prospects for nothing. Bebe. Or we will make deals for capspace that won't help us. Deke and Smitty were ages ago and a whole different franchise so I'm not seeing the relevance of those. I know Harrington is your guy but he served no purpose for us and a star he has never been. Washington took a bunch of guys off our hands in exchange for the pick. And the Brooklyn trade is viewed around the league as an absolute fleecing of Nets. And while I wish Bebe well it'd be good for him to play an nba game before we declare that a bad trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted July 31, 2014 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Deke and Smitty were ages ago and a whole different franchise so I'm not seeing the relevance of those. I know Harrington is your guy but he served no purpose for us and a star he has never been. Washington took a bunch of guys off our hands in exchange for the pick. And the Brooklyn trade is viewed around the league as an absolute fleecing of Nets. And while I wish Bebe well it'd be good for him to play an nba game before we declare that a bad trade. While other players were with different regimes, the conditions haven't changed. We are still a spot that has to overpay for FAs. We are still a team that doesn't draft well. We are still a team with low fan turnout. Therefore, we are still a team that will probably be on the losing side of a trade. Brooklyn built two subsequent contenders off of what we gave them. Without Joe, there would be no Deron. Whilst Deron didn't work out so well for Brooklyn yet, the point is still that it was Joe's star power and BKLYN's readiness to build a champion that led to the aquisition of Deron, Pierce, and KG. In that same time, what have we done?? Wished that BKLYN would lose so that we can get a better pick? Think about that. We gave up a 6 time allstar just outside of his prime and all we got was a bunch of rentals and a possible trade of picks? Joe may end up being a hall of famer... and we will be sitting here saying, well we traded him for capspace that we couldn't give away. That's not a fleecing for BKLYN. The thing you fail to see MacD is that players have value. Al Harrington may have "served no purpose for us" (even though he was a 18/8 Forward) however, he had more value than what we got back? We may have been finished with Josh Smith but to get nothing in return for him is just plain Criminal. Bebe may not have been the apple of our eye but to trade him for capspace that we won't use is just plan stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff_Man Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 My thought is that if the fans think it, the the GMs have to have the same sort of thoughts also. No. The fans are complete idiots for the most part. That goes for any sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudBall Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Sometimes it's better to just let players walk, who knows the hawks could have been getting horrible offers for josh that would have been more detrimental to our capspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyphish1 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 We can try to spin it anyway possible. Until the end of this season, BKLYN is still winning in that trade. Here's the thing. We gave Philly Deke. Nothing about that trade benefited us. All benefits were to Philly who immediately went to the NBA finals with Deke as the defensive anchor. We gave Smitty to PTL. The bottom line is that Smitty went on to win a championship. That means that he had game left in his tank. IF not for the screwjob, he would have made it to the finals with PTL. We got nothing from this deal. 1/2 a season of Rider and 1 season with Jackson. We gave Detroit Rasheed. I used to could stomach that because we got Josh out of the deal. However, we let Josh walk for nothing when he still had value. We gave Indy Al Harrington for Acie Law. Harrington was a low post star for us. We gave Washington: Jordan Crawford, Mike Bibby, Evans, and #18 pick in the 2011 draft for Hinrich and Armstrong. Then there was Brooklyn. It just seems like for so long, we have been on the losing side of these trades. We can't expect to just receive respect in trades when we have already shown that we will trade away prospects for nothing. Bebe. Or we will make deals for capspace that won't help us. Smitty didn't win a championship in PTL knucklehead. They got bounced by the Lakers the year they made their best run. Philly did not win a championship. We got Rasheed Wallace long after he won in Detroit. There is some real revisionist history going up in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted July 31, 2014 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 No. The fans are complete idiots for the most part. That goes for any sport. Not to put that much weight on the say of the fans, however, when GMs look at Atlanta and they look at our trade history and they see our inability to get top FAs and they see how we stumble in the draft... Do you think that GMs think about us much differently than the fans do? Do you really think... Wow, those guys in Atlanta are pretty Sharp.. I mean, they traded Lou Williams and Bebe for 6 Million in cap space, that was a really sharp move. I mean, they had nerves of steel when they let Josh Smith walk for nothing....Sharp guys...... we need to respect those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted July 31, 2014 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Smitty didn't win a championship in PTL knucklehead. They got bounced by the Lakers the year they made their best run. Can you read???? I will post it again this time with highlights... We gave Smitty to PTL. The bottom line is that Smitty went on to win a championship. That means that he had game left in his tank. IF not for the screwjob, he would have made it to the finals with PTL. We got nothing from this deal. 1/2 a season of Rider and 1 season with Jackson. You see that underlined part in BLUE? If you could comprehend, you would understand that I was saying that he didn't win a championship in PTL... You have to get to the finals to WIN a championship... DUH..... Moreover, the part in red was why I mentioned PTL and his eventual championship with the Spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyphish1 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 What's the next gripe? We "gave away" Boris Diaw and he went on to win a championship? Smitty was four years removed and one franchise removed when he was as a ROLE PLAYER on a Spurs team. I'll be the first to say Isaiah Rider was a terrible deal, but let's not make misleading comments to make our assertions seem more valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyphish1 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Steve Smith is my favorite Hawk of all time, so don't go all f'ing fancy font formatting to act like you know something I don't. You are one neurotic/impusive mofo. Post us a pic posting from your mom's basement??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Can you read???? I will post it again this time with highlights...We gave Smitty to PTL. The bottom line is that Smitty went on to win a championship. That means that he had game left in his tank. IF not for the screwjob, he would have made it to the finals with PTL. We got nothing from this deal. 1/2 a season of Rider and 1 season with Jackson. You see that underlined part in BLUE? If you could comprehend, you would understand that I was saying that he didn't win a championship in PTL... You have to get to the finals to WIN a championship... DUH..... Moreover, the part in red was why I mentioned PTL and his eventual championship with the Spurs. Smittt may have had game left but maybe not just as the main piece here in Atlanta but as a role player on the championship Spurs team. So I'm not sure your equation works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted July 31, 2014 Moderators Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 While other players were with different regimes, the conditions haven't changed. We are still a spot that has to overpay for FAs. We are still a team that doesn't draft well. We are still a team with low fan turnout. Therefore, we are still a team that will probably be on the losing side of a trade. Brooklyn built two subsequent contenders off of what we gave them. Without Joe, there would be no Deron. Whilst Deron didn't work out so well for Brooklyn yet, the point is still that it was Joe's star power and BKLYN's readiness to build a champion that led to the aquisition of Deron, Pierce, and KG. In that same time, what have we done?? Wished that BKLYN would lose so that we can get a better pick? Think about that. We gave up a 6 time allstar just outside of his prime and all we got was a bunch of rentals and a possible trade of picks? Joe may end up being a hall of famer... and we will be sitting here saying, well we traded him for capspace that we couldn't give away. That's not a fleecing for BKLYN. The thing you fail to see MacD is that players have value. Al Harrington may have "served no purpose for us" (even though he was a 18/8 Forward) however, he had more value than what we got back? We may have been finished with Josh Smith but to get nothing in return for him is just plain Criminal. Bebe may not have been the apple of our eye but to trade him for capspace that we won't use is just plan stupid. This is very confusing because Deron was acquired by BKN before we traded Joe. You're making the same mistake that is repeated over and over on here. That we got "nothing" for Harrington, Josh, Joe. That's just flat out wrong. We got a whole new team. Just because we didn't trade one for the other doesn't mean we got nothing. Without letting Josh walk we don't have Paul Millsap. Would you rather still have Josh? Was Korver for Hinrich a good trade? Did we have to overpay Korver and Millsap who are our last two big free agent signings? Was Marvin Williams for Devin Harris a good trade? I mean we let Harris walk for nothing right? With a salary cap you have to let players go in order to acquire ones you'd rather have. And Harrington? Come on man. The guy has played on 9 teams since leaving the Hawks and most of them crappy. If he's truly an 18/8 PF then why is no one interested in keeping him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duff_Man Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 He tried to trade Josh. Nobody wanted him. Luckily for him Joe Dumars was the worst ever. Now they are falling over themselves to send him away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeye242424 Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Smitty didn't win a championship in PTL knucklehead. They got bounced by the Lakers the year they made their best run. Philly did not win a championship. We got Rasheed Wallace long after he won in Detroit. There is some real revisionist history going up in this thread. Diesel is not a knucklehead, but that made me laugh....I haven't heard that in awhile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted July 31, 2014 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Smittt may have had game left but maybe not just as the main piece here in Atlanta but as a role player on the championship Spurs team. So I'm not sure your equation works. If you watched Smitty in PTL, you would know that he had lots more than just role player left in him. He and Pippen Dogged Kobe in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted July 31, 2014 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 This is very confusing because Deron was acquired by BKN before we traded Joe. You're making the same mistake that is repeated over and over on here. That we got "nothing" for Harrington, Josh, Joe. That's just flat out wrong. We got a whole new team. Just because we didn't trade one for the other doesn't mean we got nothing. Without letting Josh walk we don't have Paul Millsap. Would you rather still have Josh? Was Korver for Hinrich a good trade? Did we have to overpay Korver and Millsap who are our last two big free agent signings? Was Marvin Williams for Devin Harris a good trade? I mean we let Harris walk for nothing right? With a salary cap you have to let players go in order to acquire ones you'd rather have. And Harrington? Come on man. The guy has played on 9 teams since leaving the Hawks and most of them crappy. If he's truly an 18/8 PF then why is no one interested in keeping him. Let me help you with that.... The 28-year-old told reporters in Vegas that he was leaning toward picking the Mavericks, but changed his mind when the Nets acquired Joe Johnson from the Atlanta Hawks . "I actually thought that's where I was going to go," Williams said. "I had the meetings and it kind of changed my mind because once I got out of the meeting with Dallas and saw the way they were going and the team they were putting out there, and I saw that we just made a trade for Joe Johnson and I felt like that team for a longer time would be the better team." You think that we had to totally resign people. What's wrong with a SNT of Josh for a first round pick and a low cost ending contract? It's hard to know that these things are possible if you never talk to your free agent. No, there wasn’t,” Smith said when asked if there was a contract offer. “During free agency, during that period, there were a lot of guys out in L.A. that were meeting with various teams. I was one of those guys. That’s where I work out in the summertime as well. The only time I saw the Hawks during free agency was when they came to one of my workouts just to say hello. I think they were meeting with Dwight Howard that day. They never came in or sat down with me during the free agency period to offer me anything.” Now, how can you explore all possibilities... If you never even press the possibility? Maybe Detroit would have given us Monroe for Smith just to save themselves caproom. Maybe we could have gotten a first rounder and a non-guaranteed contract from a team that couldn't afford to offer Smoove an outright deal? But if you never talk to your free agents, what message do others get in the gossip lounges of the NBA? We never traded Korver for Hinrich. We traded a trade exception for Korver. They just happened to pick up Hinrich. Are you serious?? Until I see capspace turned into a player that can actually play, these moves that we're making for capspace are meaningless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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