Merged: Greg Monroe Topics

[Guest]

Can someone answer if Monroe is really a post player? I could swear when I checked the draft express video that was posted it stated 'he gets most of his point from face up jumpers'.

Can someone clarify?

And I'm not saying he doesn't score from the post. But how effective is he actually - that's what I'm trying to find out.

Can someone repost the video - I need another look see.

Edited August 8, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[JTB]

Can someone answer if Monroe is really a post player? I could swear when I checked the draft express video that was posted it stated 'he gets most of his point from face up jumpers'.

Can someone clarify?

And I'm not saying he doesn't score from the post. But how effective is he actually - that's what I'm trying to find out.

Can someone repost the video - I need another look see.

Here you go:

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/965-Greg-Monroe

I think many believed he was a face up shooter when he first got to the nba but he's a post scorer who would be a more efficient post scorer under coach bud in my opinion.

78% frequency in the paint...

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/965-Greg-Monroe

Edited August 8, 2014 by JTB

[Diesel]

Monroe's last two seasons at center, he generated 7 win shares on offense and 6 on defense.  His defensive rating went from a 103.5 at center to a 108 at PF (higher is worse).  For context, the Hawks had exactly one defender last year who bettered his DWS (average of those last two seasons at center was 3 DWS) and that 103.5 DRTG is very similar to Al's defensive rating the last two seasons (102 and 104).

 

Monroe is a much better defender at center.

 

People miss the fact that off at the High post, guarding stretch PFs is not his calling.   He doesn't have the lateral movement for that.  However, low post defense, he can do.  He is the one who will keep strong low post players like Drummond and Cousins in check.

[JTB]

People miss the fact that off at the High post, guarding stretch PFs is not his calling. He doesn't have the lateral movement for that. However, low post defense, he can do. He is the one who will keep strong low post players like Drummond and Cousins in check.

I will admit he's been called out to be a little weak when it came to guarding centers but he is also known to be strong so I'm not too worried about it.

[Diesel]

I totally understand the age difference. But I just don't understand why you want to move Sap for Monroe. If you look at it stat wise..

Points, assists, steals, BLOCKS, ft%, 3pt% are all in the favor of Sap. Only rebounds and fg% are in Monroe's favor.

I mean blocks? If you were Horford and saw the blocks stat alone in the sap vs Monroe comparison you would laugh. Horford would probably think wait, they wanna get me a "center" that blocks less shots that my own pf (sap) did last year. They can't possibly be serious.

Either get Horford a real center or lets just hold on to our cards for now until the trade deadline. Because there is no way we trade Sap who is the better player by far, for Monroe who is just younger and is listed as a pf/center. Lol

 

Honestly I would move Horf for Monroe + other compensation.

 

There's no problem with Sap.  Sap Fits.   I don't know what we know about Horf at this point.  I think a Sap/Monroe tandem would be really good now and going into the future.

 

IF we could coax out a 1st rounder (protected of course) + Monroe SNT from Detroit, I would do the deal like that.  I realize that Horf is only 27.  I realize that Sap is 30.  However, I just got a feeling that Horf would fair better wth Detroit and we'd fair better with Monroe.

[JTB]

Honestly I would move Horf for Monroe + other compensation.

There's no problem with Sap. Sap Fits. I don't know what we know about Horf at this point. I think a Sap/Monroe tandem would be really good now and going into the future.

IF we could coax out a 1st rounder (protected of course) + Monroe SNT from Detroit, I would do the deal like that. I realize that Horf is only 27. I realize that Sap is 30. However, I just got a feeling that Horf would fair better wth Detroit and we'd fair better with Monroe.

I thought about that but then on a rebounding and defense outlook I see that as a struggle with these two so I rather keep horford who's the better overall player of all of them.

Plus I think horford fits just as well as sap...he just doesn't have the range sap has as far as saps 3ball.

[Guest]

Here you go:

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/965-Greg-Monroe

I think many believed he was a face up shooter when he first got to the nba but he's a post scorer who would be a more efficient post scorer under coach bud in my opinion.

78% frequency in the paint...

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/965-Greg-Monroe

So how does that fit into what Coach Bud's offensive system is?  

 

Throughout the offseason Bud’s system has been a topic of discussion, but often in very vague terms. In talking with Coach and watching a lot of film on the Spurs (As Bud told me: “Yes, there will be a lot of similarities [between what the Hawks will run and the Spurs' offense].”), I came away with a better understanding of what can be expected of the Hawks’ offense this coming season. Pace, spacing and pick-and-rolls are three of the most fundamental aspects of Bud’s system.

The offense is predicated on motion and forcing the defense to defend the entire width of the court in order to create openings and mismatches. Pick-and-roll/pop accounted for 22.26 percent of the Spurs offense last season and spot-up shot attempts were another 21.48 percent of their offense (per Synergy Sports). In spacing the floor with shooters and his design of pick-and-rolls (something we will explore in more detail in part two), Bud’s offense forces defenses to either play pick-and-rolls straight up or leave shooters to help on the pick-and-roll, which creates open shot opportunities.

When discussing his system, pace is something Budenholzer constantly refers to. Pace is a vital aspect of his offense and not just in getting out in transition, but running half-court sets quickly and with a lot of motion. This was evident in San Antonio last year where, despite being one of the older teams in the NBA, the Spurs ranked 6th in pace last year (the Hawks ranked 13th in pace in 2012-13, per NBA Stats).

The Hawks’ roster reflects the importance of these three factors (pace, spacing, pick-and-roll) to Bud’s system. Korver returns to Atlanta to provide a lethal shooter on the wing for spacing purposes. Along with Al Horford, Millsap and Brand were added to the roster, and all three are athletic bigs that run the floor well, are adept at pick-and-rolls and can space the floor with their shooting ability. Gustavo Ayón is another athletic big man who can provide extra size on the interior, and Pero Antić can further stretch the floor with his shooting ability. Carroll appeals to Bud’s hopes of building a strong defensive identity, and on offense he excels cutting to the basket and in transition. Every move this offseason was calculated in the hopes that Bud’s system will maximize the skill sets of each player.

“Pace and space are going to be important to how we play,” Ferry said at his recent press conference. “Guys that can push tempo, make plays, and knock down shots will be important and are things that I’ll have to look for when making decisions on players.”

Pace was certainly one of the reasons Jeff Teague was re-signed this offseason. Speed has always been one of Teague’s best attributes, but he has struggled at times in pick-and-roll. The Hawks were 18th in the NBA in pick-and-roll offense last season at 0.84 PPP (points per possession), were 21st in pick-and-roll ball-handler scoring at 0.75 PPP, and Teague ranked 120th in the league at 0.72 PPP as a pick-and-roll ball-handler last season. I asked Coach how Teague fits in to his system, being that it is so heavily reliant on pick-and-roll, and Bud was optimistic that in his system Teague will flourish, and pointed to pace as one of the biggest reasons why.

“I think the pace with which we’re playing pick-and-roll and the pace the game is happening and screens are coming, I think it will be a really natural evolution for Jeff to become really efficient and really good in pick-and-roll,” Budenholzer said. “I think the system, the opportunity, the pace, the way that we’re setting screens, and the environment we’re putting him in, I think it will be a really natural evolution for him. I think he’s pretty good already, to be honest with you, and I think he’s going to get better.”

The way the Hawks’ roster was put together it is clear that there is a consistent vision as to the types of players they want. They have added players that fit the ideals of what the organization wants to become on and off the court, and Coach Bud’s system and philosophies are represented in the construction of the roster.

 

 

http://hawksbasketblog.com/2013/09/30/breaking-bud-part-one-the-roster-and-buds-system/

[Guest]

Can you imagine the discussion if there was an actual credible rumor of Monroe coming here?

[Ryaan]

Monroe rejected 60mil over 5 years right now, maybe he wants more or maybe wants out of Detroit

[BrazilianHawk]

Honestly I would move Horf for Monroe + other compensation.

 

There's no problem with Sap.  Sap Fits.   I don't know what we know about Horf at this point.  I think a Sap/Monroe tandem would be really good now and going into the future.

 

IF we could coax out a 1st rounder (protected of course) + Monroe SNT from Detroit, I would do the deal like that.  I realize that Horf is only 27.  I realize that Sap is 30.  However, I just got a feeling that Horf would fair better wth Detroit and we'd fair better with Monroe.

[JTB]

So how does that fit into what Coach Bud's offensive system is?

Throughout the offseason Bud’s system has been a topic of discussion, but often in very vague terms. In talking with Coach and watching a lot of film on the Spurs (As Bud told me: “Yes, there will be a lot of similarities [between what the Hawks will run and the Spurs' offense].”), I came away with a better understanding of what can be expected of the Hawks’ offense this coming season. Pace, spacing and pick-and-rolls are three of the most fundamental aspects of Bud’s system.

The offense is predicated on motion and forcing the defense to defend the entire width of the court in order to create openings and mismatches. Pick-and-roll/pop accounted for 22.26 percent of the Spurs offense last season and spot-up shot attempts were another 21.48 percent of their offense (per Synergy Sports). In spacing the floor with shooters and his design of pick-and-rolls (something we will explore in more detail in part two), Bud’s offense forces defenses to either play pick-and-rolls straight up or leave shooters to help on the pick-and-roll, which creates open shot opportunities.

When discussing his system, pace is something Budenholzer constantly refers to. Pace is a vital aspect of his offense and not just in getting out in transition, but running half-court sets quickly and with a lot of motion. This was evident in San Antonio last year where, despite being one of the older teams in the NBA, the Spurs ranked 6th in pace last year (the Hawks ranked 13th in pace in 2012-13, per NBA Stats).

The Hawks’ roster reflects the importance of these three factors (pace, spacing, pick-and-roll) to Bud’s system. Korver returns to Atlanta to provide a lethal shooter on the wing for spacing purposes. Along with Al Horford, Millsap and Brand were added to the roster, and all three are athletic bigs that run the floor well, are adept at pick-and-rolls and can space the floor with their shooting ability. Gustavo Ayón is another athletic big man who can provide extra size on the interior, and Pero Antić can further stretch the floor with his shooting ability. Carroll appeals to Bud’s hopes of building a strong defensive identity, and on offense he excels cutting to the basket and in transition. Every move this offseason was calculated in the hopes that Bud’s system will maximize the skill sets of each player.

“Pace and space are going to be important to how we play,” Ferry said at his recent press conference. “Guys that can push tempo, make plays, and knock down shots will be important and are things that I’ll have to look for when making decisions on players.”

Pace was certainly one of the reasons Jeff Teague was re-signed this offseason. Speed has always been one of Teague’s best attributes, but he has struggled at times in pick-and-roll. The Hawks were 18th in the NBA in pick-and-roll offense last season at 0.84 PPP (points per possession), were 21st in pick-and-roll ball-handler scoring at 0.75 PPP, and Teague ranked 120th in the league at 0.72 PPP as a pick-and-roll ball-handler last season. I asked Coach how Teague fits in to his system, being that it is so heavily reliant on pick-and-roll, and Bud was optimistic that in his system Teague will flourish, and pointed to pace as one of the biggest reasons why.

“I think the pace with which we’re playing pick-and-roll and the pace the game is happening and screens are coming, I think it will be a really natural evolution for Jeff to become really efficient and really good in pick-and-roll,” Budenholzer said. “I think the system, the opportunity, the pace, the way that we’re setting screens, and the environment we’re putting him in, I think it will be a really natural evolution for him. I think he’s pretty good already, to be honest with you, and I think he’s going to get better.”

The way the Hawks’ roster was put together it is clear that there is a consistent vision as to the types of players they want. They have added players that fit the ideals of what the organization wants to become on and off the court, and Coach Bud’s system and philosophies are represented in the construction of the roster.

http://hawksbasketblog.com/2013/09/30/breaking-bud-part-one-the-roster-and-buds-system/

So a post scoring big is not needed?.....

The floor can still be spaced with horford and Monroe since horford can shoot a deep mid range consistently and pace is all on Teague and other ball handlers.

Pick and rolls would be great with horford and Monroe. Monroe is actually a boost to pick and rolls in my opinion.

[Guest]

So a post scoring big is not needed?.....

The floor can still be spaced with horford and Monroe since horford can shoot a deep mid range consistently and pace is all on Teague and other ball handlers.

Pick and rolls would be great with horford and Monroe. Monroe is actually a boost to pick and rolls in my opinion.

I didn't say it wasn't. I'm saying it's not the primary focus of Buds offense based on THIS article and the style of play we saw last year. So why offer a max deal for a player that won't be the primary offensive threat and not as good defensively?

Al would be the main PnR/PnP player, how can Monroe space the floor for Al to be as effective?

Is Monroe a PnR player? (I may be mistaken but I thought the draft express video said he struggles with if)

[JTB]

I didn't say it wasn't. I'm saying it's not the primary focus of Buds offense based on THIS article and the style of play we saw last year. So why offer a max deal for a player that won't be the primary offensive threat and not as good defensively?

Al would be the main PnR/PnP player, how can Monroe space the floor for Al to be as effective?

Is Monroe a PnR player? (I may be mistaken but I thought the draft express video said he struggles with if)

But see we can't say Monroe isn't a primary offense player until bud actually works with him. Bud can do a lot with a post scorer like Monroe. In fact buds offense will be more balanced! We still have Payne who's a stretch big and capable of knocking down the 3ball, so we aren't losing all our bigs that can shoot. We are simply replacing one major shooting big with a good post big.

As far as Monroes shot, he has the ability to develop a solid jumpshot. It's not there yet but he can get it there.

You mentioned "how is this spacing the floor for al?" Well Monroe can hit a solid 12 footer and he will just have to get better at it but let's be honest....how often does al score in the paint? The majority of Al's 18 points are by face up so since when is al this post player that need the floor spaced?

[Guest]

I've said my piece and had my fill on this topic so I'm moving on. No sense in going around in circles.

[MrMeltdown]

Giving up Sap is not really an improvement

Edited August 9, 2014 by MrMeltdown

[Jody23]

Monroe is not coming to the Hawks. The roster you see now is the team you'll see this season.

[JTB]

Monroe is not coming to the Hawks. The roster you see now is the team you'll see this season.

I agree with you...most rumors that are rumored to the hawks don't happen anyways as we app know.

But I've said all I wanted to say in this thread so I will leave those of you who hate the idea of trading sap for Monroe with this:

In an era of inflated contracts, it would make sense if some team (including the Pistons) took a chance on a 24-year-old power forward/center in a league that doesn’t have a lot of dominant big men. Monroe posted 15.2 points and 9.3 rebounds per game last year and has the potential to be a double-double machine for the next 10 years.

And this:

What’s more, inside players like Monroe have become devalued in this stretch forward-dominated era. (SMH did we not see the spurs dominate okc in the post?)

So what's the conclusion:

Hawks don't have a post scoring big. Horford and sap are ok at scoring in the post but they aren't as good as Monroe. The spurs are a balanced great offense team...post scoring and 3ball.

[Guest]

What’s more, inside players like Monroe have become devalued in this stretch forward-dominated era. (SMH did we not see the spurs dominate okc in the post?)

.

You seem to forget that the Spurs went small after OKC tied the series by substituting Diaw a stretch 4 for Splitter. Ibaka was forced from the paint guarding Diaw which opened the paint for driving to the basket and scoring or hitting the perimeter players for wide open shots.

There was a stretch in one of the games where Duncan scored 5/6 straight buckets against Ibaka in the post - but that is no surprise, as good as Ibaka is as a weak side defender he can't handle TD in the post one on one - He is Tim Duncan after all.

And let me add for the record: I'm not against Monroe on the team in general, I just don't see the CLEAR upgrade/advantage that some see in a Monroe/Al vs Al/Sap based on our style of play. Al is still a better Center than Monroe and it seems to me that Millsap is a more versatile PF than Al would be.

It seems lateral to me if anything.

Edited August 9, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[JTB]

You seem to forget that the Spurs went small after OKC tied the series by substituting Diaw a stretch 4 for Splitter. Ibaka was forced from the paint guarding Diaw which opened the paint for driving to the basket and scoring or hitting the perimeter players for wide open shots.

There was a stretch in one of the games where Duncan scored 5/6 straight buckets against Ibaka in the post - but that is no surprise, as good as Ibaka is as a weak side defender he can't handle TD in the post one on one - He is Tim Duncan after all.

And let me add for the record: I'm not against Monroe on the team in general, I just don't see the CLEAR upgrade/advantage that some see in a Monroe/Al vs Al/Sap based on our style of play. Al is still a better Center than Monroe and it seems to me that Millsap is a more versatile PF than Al would be.

It seems lateral to me if anything.

I gotcha.....on most days I notice we usually agree but I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this one....that's not to say I disagree with the things your saying. Clearly I just see more value in Monroe than you on this specific topic.

[Diesel]

So how does that fit into what Coach Bud's offensive system is?  

 

Throughout the offseason Bud’s system has been a topic of discussion, but often in very vague terms. In talking with Coach and watching a lot of film on the Spurs (As Bud told me: “Yes, there will be a lot of similarities [between what the Hawks will run and the Spurs' offense].”), I came away with a better understanding of what can be expected of the Hawks’ offense this coming season. Pace, spacing and pick-and-rolls are three of the most fundamental aspects of Bud’s system.

The offense is predicated on motion and forcing the defense to defend the entire width of the court in order to create openings and mismatches. Pick-and-roll/pop accounted for 22.26 percent of the Spurs offense last season and spot-up shot attempts were another 21.48 percent of their offense (per Synergy Sports). In spacing the floor with shooters and his design of pick-and-rolls (something we will explore in more detail in part two), Bud’s offense forces defenses to either play pick-and-rolls straight up or leave shooters to help on the pick-and-roll, which creates open shot opportunities.

When discussing his system, pace is something Budenholzer constantly refers to. Pace is a vital aspect of his offense and not just in getting out in transition, but running half-court sets quickly and with a lot of motion. This was evident in San Antonio last year where, despite being one of the older teams in the NBA, the Spurs ranked 6th in pace last year (the Hawks ranked 13th in pace in 2012-13, per NBA Stats).

The Hawks’ roster reflects the importance of these three factors (pace, spacing, pick-and-roll) to Bud’s system. Korver returns to Atlanta to provide a lethal shooter on the wing for spacing purposes. Along with Al Horford, Millsap and Brand were added to the roster, and all three are athletic bigs that run the floor well, are adept at pick-and-rolls and can space the floor with their shooting ability. Gustavo Ayón is another athletic big man who can provide extra size on the interior, and Pero Antić can further stretch the floor with his shooting ability. Carroll appeals to Bud’s hopes of building a strong defensive identity, and on offense he excels cutting to the basket and in transition. Every move this offseason was calculated in the hopes that Bud’s system will maximize the skill sets of each player.

“Pace and space are going to be important to how we play,” Ferry said at his recent press conference. “Guys that can push tempo, make plays, and knock down shots will be important and are things that I’ll have to look for when making decisions on players.”

Pace was certainly one of the reasons Jeff Teague was re-signed this offseason. Speed has always been one of Teague’s best attributes, but he has struggled at times in pick-and-roll. The Hawks were 18th in the NBA in pick-and-roll offense last season at 0.84 PPP (points per possession), were 21st in pick-and-roll ball-handler scoring at 0.75 PPP, and Teague ranked 120th in the league at 0.72 PPP as a pick-and-roll ball-handler last season. I asked Coach how Teague fits in to his system, being that it is so heavily reliant on pick-and-roll, and Bud was optimistic that in his system Teague will flourish, and pointed to pace as one of the biggest reasons why.

“I think the pace with which we’re playing pick-and-roll and the pace the game is happening and screens are coming, I think it will be a really natural evolution for Jeff to become really efficient and really good in pick-and-roll,” Budenholzer said. “I think the system, the opportunity, the pace, the way that we’re setting screens, and the environment we’re putting him in, I think it will be a really natural evolution for him. I think he’s pretty good already, to be honest with you, and I think he’s going to get better.”

The way the Hawks’ roster was put together it is clear that there is a consistent vision as to the types of players they want. They have added players that fit the ideals of what the organization wants to become on and off the court, and Coach Bud’s system and philosophies are represented in the construction of the roster.

 

 

http://hawksbasketblog.com/2013/09/30/breaking-bud-part-one-the-roster-and-buds-system/

 

Wordy as you want it, the truth is that low post scoring is something that our offense lacks and something that ALL offenses need.  Either by excellent slashers or by a strong post player, all offenses need some form of high percentage scoring.  We are lying to ourselves if we believe that we can be a next level team simply by shooting the three.   GS, Phoenix, and a multitude of other teams will tell you that that doesn't work.