Millsap is the best VERSATILE scoring PF in the NBA....is he not?

[JTB]

A buddy and I were having an argument about scoring power forwards. So without getting deep into the story you already know that I obviously threw Saps name in the conversation as the nba best versatile scoring power forward in the league today.

Of course that statement blew my buddy's mind.....when he talked about sap I could tell he never seen him play or payed close attention. Without babbling anymore he said he believes Kevin love is the best versatile scoring Powerforward and while that's fair to say I honestly believe sap is more versatile than even Kevin Love.

Are hawk fans aware of how many ways sap can score on the floor?.....seriously I'm not saying this because I'm a hawks fan down to my bare bone but sap is really that damn good at putting the ball in hole! I can honestly say that I use to believe sap could play sf because of how quick he looked against other or most teams pf but i realize that would just take one of his special abilities (scoring off the dribble) as pf away if he switched to sf.

But seriously sap is a beast at scoring. Horford can't do the things sap does to score. I get that sap can't do a lot of things horford can but I'm telling you that this is a sure fact "horford may be our best all around player but he cannot score in a variety of ways like sap at a high level"

I hate the sap vs horford threads and hope this doesn't become yet another one. Both players are very special and as a fan I don't feel the hawks are making it well enough to give up neither player. So let's see how a full season goes before we decide to give up this good big man tandem we have!

DID I MENTION HOW BEAST SAP WAS AT SCORING? ALLOW ME TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORIES.....BRACE YOURSELVES THERE WILL BE A TON OF OFF THE DRIBBLE SCORING, 3BALL DROPPING, & INSIDE SCORING DOMINANCE!.....LADIES AND GENTS, 2014 ALL-STAR PAUL MILLSAP:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JuY-9y010tY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hMREA4Bm3-Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHhSGxYGzrc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TktZPRIM5t4

[BrazilianHawk]

Hmmm. Horford vs Sap. I don't think so.

 

Horford is a Center. And yes, I agree with you, Millsap is probably the most versatile scoring PF in the league. Which is why I loved his signing from day zero.

[DrReality]

Can't wait to see how Horf and Sap play together in Budz system.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

A buddy and I were having an argument about scoring power forwards. So without getting deep into the story you already know that I obviously threw Saps name in the conversation as the nba best versatile scoring power forward in the league today.

Of course that statement blew my buddy's mind.....when he talked about sap I could tell he never seen him play or payed close attention. Without babbling anymore he said he believes Kevin love is the best versatile scoring Powerforward and while that's fair to say I honestly believe sap is more versatile than even Kevin Love.

Are hawk fans aware of how many ways sap can score on the floor?.....seriously I'm not saying this because I'm a hawks fan down to my bare bone but sap is really that damn good at putting the ball in hole! I can honestly say that I use to believe sap could play sf because of how quick he looked against other or most teams pf but i realize that would just take one of his special abilities (scoring off the dribble) as pf away if he switched to sf.

But seriously sap is a beast at scoring. Horford can't do the things sap does to score. I get that sap can't do a lot of things horford can but I'm telling you that this is a sure fact "horford may be our best all around player but he cannot score in a variety of ways like sap at a high level"

I hate the sap vs horford threads and hope this doesn't become yet another one. Both players are very special and as a fan I don't feel the hawks are making it well enough to give up neither player. So let's see how a full season goes before we decide to give up this good big man tandem we have!

DID I MENTION HOW BEAST SAP WAS AT SCORING? ALLOW ME TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORIES.....BRACE YOURSELVES THERE WILL BE A TON OF OFF THE DRIBBLE SCORING, 3BALL DROPPING, & INSIDE SCORING DOMINANCE!.....LADIES AND GENTS, 2014 ALL-STAR PAUL MILLSAP:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JuY-9y010tY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hMREA4Bm3-Q

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHhSGxYGzrc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TktZPRIM5t4

 

Did you look at the numbers to see if it actually validated your beliefs?

 

If not, you may not like the shot charts on Millsap.

 

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=200794

 

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=200794&zone-mode=basic

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=millspa01&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=0

 

 

 

I think what shocked me the most, was how much he struggled from the midrange.   I knew he wasn't great, but not that bad.   From the midrange, even Josh Smith was a much better shooter in 2013, but far worse from 3 point range.   Luckily for us, Millsap didn't spend a lot of time taking midrange shots, which helped his efficiency as a shooter.   If Millsap had Mike Scott's midrange game, he'd really be lethal.

 

But by looking at the numbers, I'd have to say NO . . . he isn't the most versatile scoring PF in the game.  

 

 

 

And you're forgetting 2 guys . . 2 Hall of Famers actually.

 

This guy

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXCSNcmCLv0

 

And this guy

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVzJoSE3iV4

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Dirk's shot chart is absolutely ridiculous.  I don't think I've ever seen a chart like this before.  Especially not from a #1 option type scorer.

 

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=1717

 

And even with the red spots in the corner, you can virtually negate that, seeing that he hardly ever takes corner 3's, which is surprising for him.

 

 

Imagine he and Korver on the same team, with a few athletic slashers and a low post scorer on the team.  Korver's chart is ridiculous too.  Just wished he had an off the dribble game, so he could get off more shots.

 

http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=2594

[WakaFlocka]

I like Millsap as much as the next Hawks fan, but no way he's the best scoring PF in the NBA.

 

Even if you want to throw Melo out and call him a SF, there's still Dirk, Bosh, KLove, and LaMarcus Aldridge.

 

David West is an underrated scorer, too.

Edited September 29, 2014 by WakaFlocka

[EazyRoc]

Kevin Love..sorry.

[JTB]

I like Millsap as much as the next Hawks fan, but no way he's the best scoring PF in the NBA.

Even if you want to throw Melo out and call him a SF, there's still Dirk, Bosh, KLove, and LaMarcus Aldridge.

David West is an underrated scorer, too.

You guys misunderstood me.....

I'm not saying sap is the best scoring pf, I'm saying sap is the best variety scoring pf in the league.

In other words he's the best at scoring anywhere on the floor in different ways. Sap has good inside post moves, he can spread the floor and knock down the 3 ball, and he can take any pf off the dribble getting around them and scoring the mid range, floater, inside shot.

Other pf in the nba don't score in a variety of ways like sap.

9 times out of 10:

-Dirk is shooter...period.

- Aldridge is a shooter....period.

-west is a mid range shooter....period.

Love is the only pf other than sap that scores inside and out. The only reason I say sap is even more of a versatile scorer than love is because again sap can take his opponents which are other Power forwards off the dribble to the goal.

This is my fault I poorly used versatile the wrong way I meant to use variety. Sap scores in a variety of ways where as dirk, Aldridge, west, etc are mainly shooters other than love.

[benhillboy]

I'd put Love, Dirk, Sap, and LaMarcus all on the same plane give or take:

Love kills all of em in second chance scoring I would think

Dirk's mid-range game is legendary

Sap is probably the biggest bully around the paint and rim

LaMarcus is the least threatening from 3, but probably the smoothest all-around scorer

You can't go wrong with either, all fine hoopers.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I love Sap and our guys as much as any other Hawks fan, but you gotta stop being blinded by homerism.  Sap is a good offensive player, but he isn't top 5 offensively versatile PF in the league.

 

1. Kevin Love
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Lemarcus Aldridge
4. David West
5. Tim Duncan

You also have to remember that Sap takes the number of 3pt shots due to Bud's game plan and Al Horford's injury.  He shot 212 3pters last season for the Hawks.  The most he ever shot in Utah was 39.

 

Just because the most of the guys above don't shoot 3pters doesn't mean they can't.  Game plan and coaching dictates how these guys play.  Hawks play a freewheeling offense and is built around the 3pt shot.  It really does boil down too passing the ball around until it gets into a players hand that's open.  Also, I believe Sap's size keeps him out of the paint.

 

David West is better in the post, midrange, and can make a 3.  Heck, he hit two huge three's during our series vs. the Pacers.  Tim Duncan hit two huge three's vs. the Suns years ago and isn't called the Big Fundamental for no reason.  Kevin Love won the 3 point contest and led the league in dub-dub's.  LMA is a grid shooter too.  Al Horford has shown he can hit the 3 ball... Take off the rose-coloured glasses and see the light... I'm not dogging Sap offensively either.  Sap is a good finisher around the hoop, but to state that he is the most versatile 4 in the league is just blind homerism.

 

Player comparison:

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=millspa01&y1=2014&p2=loveke01&y2=2014&p3=aldrila01&y3=2014&p4=nowitdi01&y4=2014&p5=westda01&y5=2014&p6=duncati01&y6=2014

[JTB]

I love Sap and our guys as much as any other Hawks fan, but you gotta stop being blinded by homerism. Sap is a good offensive player, but he isn't top 5 offensively versatile PF in the league.

• Kevin Love
• Dirk Nowitzki
• Lemarcus Aldridge
• David West
• Tim Duncan

You also have to remember that Sap takes the number of 3pt shots due to Bud's game plan and Al Horford's injury. He shot 212 3pters last season for the Hawks. The most he ever shot in Utah was 39.

Just because the most of the guys above don't shoot 3pters doesn't mean they can't. Game plan and coaching dictates how these guys play. Hawks play a freewheeling offense and is built around the 3pt shot. It really does boil down too passing the ball around until it gets into a players hand that's open. Also, I believe Sap's size keeps him out of the paint.

David West is better in the post, midrange, and can make a 3. Heck, he hit two huge three's during our series vs. the Pacers. Tim Duncan hit two huge three's vs. the Suns years ago and isn't called the Big Fundamental for no reason. Kevin Love won the 3 point contest and led the league in dub-dub's. LMA is a grid shooter too. Al Horford has shown he can hit the 3 ball... Take off the rose-coloured glasses and see the light... I'm not dogging Sap offensively either. Sap is a good finisher around the hoop, but to state that he is the most versatile 4 in the league is just blind homerism.

Player comparison:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=millspa01&y1=2014&p2=loveke01&y2=2014&p3=aldrila01&y3=2014&p4=nowitdi01&y4=2014&p5=westda01&y5=2014&p6=duncati01&y6=2014

Lol...well I politely disagree! Guess I'm a homer ATL fan cause I'm just stating what I see bad while what you said may be true none of those players score in a variety of ways on a consistent basis.

Yeah maybe Davis west can hit the 3 but anybody who had been watching west throughout his whole career knows that he's a primarily mid range shooter...same goes for lamarcus Aldridge. Dirk is a shooter period whether that's by 3 or mid range, the one time dirk attacked the basket relentlessly mavs won the championship, but throughout dirks career his mainly a shooter and a damn good one.

Love on the other hand is really the only argument in this convo in my opinion. One of my favorite things about sap is how he can put the ball on the floor and get around Pfs and score...not saying these other guys can't do that but they damn sure can't do it better than sap...none of them.

We will have to just agree to disagree...I will be called a homer cause sap is a hawk but whys needs to be understood is that just because I call sap the the best versatile (variety) scoring power forward in the nba doesn't mean I'm calling him the best scoring power forward in the nba.....sap happens to have a more unusual savy offense game than any other normal scoring pf in the nba.

Usually a good or elite scoring pf is either a shooter or inside the paint...well sap has that ability to do both of those and take his man off the dribble to finish at the rim. Sap is the hawks best scorer...if we gave him more attempts I'm sure he could avg 23 to 25 points no prob but that's not in the plans of buds offense.

[WakaFlocka]

Bosh does everything Millsap does offensively and he does it better.

[JTB]

Bosh does everything Millsap does offensively and he does it better.

He did in Toronto I agree...but we haven't seen that in 4 years now. If he does return to Toronto form this season then I agree with you.

[AHF]

Duncan may be the most versatile big man in the game, IMO.  He can orchestrate the offense with his passing, dominate people in the post, and stretch the D with his exterior shooting.  Most of these guys have marginal impact in the post at best.  The fact that he doesn't shoot a ton of 3's seems insignificant compared to the impact on the interior mixed with his ability to play a face up / jump shooting game.

[JTB]

Duncan may be the most versatile big man in the game, IMO.  He can orchestrate the offense with his passing, dominate people in the post, and stretch the D with his exterior shooting.  Most of these guys have marginal impact in the post at best.  The fact that he doesn't shoot a ton of 3's seems insignificant compared to the impact on the interior mixed with his ability to play a face up / jump shooting game.

I can't argue with this.....all makes sense to me

[benhillboy]

I didn't even think of Duncan. I see him more as a F/C, plus his accomplishments double all the others combined.

I've never been a West fan and Bosh's present game is a soft shell taco of the Toronto version. I'd take Al at the 4 over both all day.