RealGM: Atlanta [possibly] interested in Greg Monroe [as FA in 2015]

[Afro]

There's evidence that Horford is worse on both ends as a PF. There's none that he's better.

And a big who can't run, defend or shoot is a terrible fit in this system on both ends.

You've posted this a few times today, but so far all I've seen is it getting ignored.

[NBASupes]

I addressed this above. Monroe's shooting was worse before Drummond and Smoove. If a guy can't make a basket outside of 3' then it doesn't matter who's around him as you just keep a defender on his body when he's near the basket and you can neutralize him.

If he is a movement big, how is he going to get the ball in positions when you have that personnel grouping. That pretty much eliminates his strongest aspect of his game and makes his low post skill his only calling card. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbjLUTdgYWo

 

Now since he is very good low post scorer and while he gives you nights like below. He more times then not gives you 16-18 on 48-52% which is average to decent for a post player.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypdsfk-uAD4

 

Don't bring up Horf this year, Horf this year hasn't been consistently aggressive on offense this year due to coming back from a serious injury. We both know that. Overall, movement bigs need to be in a high BBIQ offense that moves the rock.

[Mdizzle5]

If Horford was truly a lite version of Karl Malone, he'd absolutely be better at PF. However, he isn't and he's not. 

 

 

So can we please kill the " _______ will allow Horford to play at his true position, which will allow him to be more effective" talk? 

Edited December 10, 2014 by Mdizzle5

[NBASupes]

Explain to me how Monroe is a better fit for a team who requires shooters, guys who can move their feet on defense, and guys who get back on defense quickly as Monroe is awful at all of those things. Teams can put a stretch big on him and force him to defend outside of the paint and they can PnR him to death. It would be incredibly ugly.

Millsap has already shown he's the best player on this team and fits it to a T. He was Budz first choice coming here and wanted him for years. He's not going anywhere.

We have shooters, we have guys who can move on their feet and guys who can get back quickly. Monroe can defend centers, how the heck do you expect to upgrade the center position when you basically want them to be Al. You logic of what we need at center is not ideal. If Dolf is GM, he wouldn't even want Marc Gasol or Dwight Howard. He wants Bosh or Horford at center if that's the case.

 

Come on, be realistic. We will use Horford like we use Brand on defense. We won't use him like Horford or Antić. On offense, we have shooters, spacing and scorers with or without Sap. With or without Al and with or without Jeff or Dennis. Sorry, I am not following you on this right now.

 

Sap fits your ideal to a T. He doesn't fit my ideal at all. Horford when healthy fits what I want out of PF in our system.

[NBASupes]

Horford is better at PF than Center. Everyone in NBA circles knows this. Except guys like Dolf and Diesel. Everyone knows. This isn't worth my time. Talk to a scout Dolf. Talk to former NBA players. Talk to current NBA players. Talk to anyone with Basketball sense. You were right on Kevin Martin. Dead wrong on Horford. 

 

You keep talking about Horf this season we all don't know he ain't 100%. We all know he's not but when Westbrook was 100% for his first two months when he came back, you didn't hear no one like, trade Al or I rather Reggie Jackson over Westbrook even if Reggie was playing better at times.

[AHF]

Horford is better at PF than Center. Everyone in NBA circles knows this. 

 

I don't think his performance has been that clear.  He hasn't played much PF (career he plays 17% of minutes at PF) and when he has he statistically has not been as effective offensively at PF and has had mixed results on defense.  For example looking at his last two healthy seasons (also his seasons with the most PF time in his career):

 

2012-13

Horford 17.9 PER at PF, 21.9 PER at C

Horford's Opponent 19.0 PER at PF, 16.6 PER at C

Net:  PF -1.1 PER; C +5.3 PER

 

2010-11

Horford 19.6 PER at PF, 23.4 PER at C

Horford's Opponent 13.1 PER at PF, 17.7 PER at C

Net:  PF +5.9 PER; C +5.7 PER

[NBASupes]

I don't think his performance has been that clear.  He hasn't played much PF (career he plays 17% of minutes at PF) and when he has he statistically has not been as effective offensively at PF and has had mixed results on defense.  For example looking at his last two healthy seasons (also his seasons with the most PF time in his career):

 

2012-13

Horford 17.9 PER at PF, 21.9 PER at C

Horford's Opponent 19.0 PER at PF, 16.6 PER at C

Net:  PF -1.1 PER; C +5.3 PER

 

2010-11

Horford 19.6 PER at PF, 23.4 PER at C

Horford's Opponent 13.1 PER at PF, 17.7 PER at C

Net:  PF +5.9 PER; C +5.7 PER

In all fairness, Zaza, Etan Thomas and Jason Collins isn't an ideal partner for Horf. They are backups or they suck. Horf will be better with Sap or Smoove than with scrubs.

Edited December 11, 2014 by nbasupes40retired

[Alex]

Monroe will be an expensive Mad Ants player if he signs with the Hawks. He needs to learn the system before he's given a jersey.

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[Alex]

In all fairness, Zaza, Etan Thomas and Jason Collins isn't an ideal partner for Horf. They are backups or they suck. Horf will be better with Sap or Smoove than with scrubs.

I bet Jason Collins would love to have been partners with any of those guys.

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[JTB]

I wish all of this "who to keep and who to give away" would just stop!

We need to keep Sap and Horford and ADD Monroe!...I say tie up all our money on our BIG MAN rotation. If we are trying to compete and be legit we have to have a good BIGs rotation anyways.

Unlike many I think Sap, Horford, Monroe will all agree to come off the bench depending on matchups coach Bud would want against certain teams.

There's nothing wrong with Sap coming off the bench or horford coming off the bench or Monroe coming off the bench....when winning becomes the main focus players will listen and do whatever it takes if they truly believe....ATLEAST that is what I believe.

Hawks make some real noise in the playoffs this year sap will want to return and Monroe will definitely be listening to what we have to offer! And those who don't want Monroe because you want a complete center who can do it all...your dreaming cause we ain't getting marc gasol, we have a better chance at adding Monroe with Sap and Al, something I don't see that is an unrealistic thing to happen

[Guest]

I wish all of this "who to keep and who to give away" would just stop!

We need to keep Sap and Horford and ADD Monroe!...I say tie up all our money on our BIG MAN rotation. If we are trying to compete and be legit we have to have a good BIGs rotation anyways.

Unlike many I think Sap, Horford, Monroe will all agree to come off the bench depending on matchups coach Bud would want against certain teams.

There's nothing wrong with Sap coming off the bench or horford coming off the bench or Monroe coming off the bench....when winning becomes the main focus players will listen and do whatever it takes if they truly believe....ATLEAST that is what I believe.

Hawks make some real noise in the playoffs this year sap will want to return and Monroe will definitely be listening to what we have to offer! And those who don't want Monroe because you want a complete center who can do it all...your dreaming cause we ain't getting marc gasol, we have a better chance at adding Monroe with Sap and Al, something I don't see that is an unrealistic thing to happen

That is what I keep saying - we need to be ADDING talent to what we have, not just switching out pieces, we don't have GREAT players to be able to do that.

[IheartVolt]

I bet Jason Collins would love to have been partners with any of those guys.

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Lol.. wow

[Admin]

Horford is better at PF than Center. Everyone in NBA circles knows this. Except guys like Dolf and Diesel. Everyone knows. This isn't worth my time. Talk to a scout Dolf. Talk to former NBA players. Talk to current NBA players. Talk to anyone with Basketball sense. You were right on Kevin Martin. Dead wrong on Horford. 

 

You keep talking about Horf this season we all don't know he ain't 100%. We all know he's not but when Westbrook was 100% for his first two months when he came back, you didn't hear no one like, trade Al or I rather Reggie Jackson over Westbrook even if Reggie was playing better at times.

 

AGAIN. There's PROOF in the stats that shows that Horford is better at C than PF. Everyone knows that, except you. Our GMs clearly know that as he's been a C his ENTIRE CAREER. Stop trying to pretend you're smarter than NBA GMs and maybe people would respect your opinion. 

 

Nowhere did I say anything about Al this season. I'm talking about who Al is and has been his entire career. 

[Admin]

We have shooters, we have guys who can move on their feet and guys who can get back quickly. Monroe can defend centers, how the heck do you expect to upgrade the center position when you basically want them to be Al. You logic of what we need at center is not ideal. If Dolf is GM, he wouldn't even want Marc Gasol or Dwight Howard. He wants Bosh or Horford at center if that's the case.

 

Come on, be realistic. We will use Horford like we use Brand on defense. We won't use him like Horford or Antić. On offense, we have shooters, spacing and scorers with or without Sap. With or without Al and with or without Jeff or Dennis. Sorry, I am not following you on this right now.

 

Sap fits your ideal to a T. He doesn't fit my ideal at all. Horford when healthy fits what I want out of PF in our system.

 

Sure a taller version of Al would be terrific. But that's not what I'm saying we have to have. The problem is that Monroe can't shoot from midrange, he can't get back in transition D or run out in transition on O, he doesn't block shots or protect the rim. If he could do any of those things then this would be a different story. But all he can do is score from within 3 feet, rebound well and pass well. He's horrid on defense, has slow feet, poor instincts on D and often times looks lazy. This is the last time I'm going to type any of these FACTS as they're apparently going in one ear and out the other. 

[ATLSmith]

Wouldn't be disappointed if the Hawks picked up Monroe.  He would certainly help with rebounding and interior D.  

Maybe move Al to 4 and Sap to 3?  That could be killer.  We could always run the "smaller" lineup we have now against faster teams.

[NBASupes]

Wouldn't be disappointed if the Hawks picked up Monroe.  He would certainly help with rebounding and interior D.  

Maybe move Al to 4 and Sap to 3?  That could be killer.  We could always run the "smaller" lineup we have now against faster teams.

I think Sap could spot at SF but DMC is doing a good job at SF. 

[Sothron]

Going back to the report...did I read that part right that supes highlighted? It sounded like Atlanta already tried to get Monroe this past offseason.

[Diesel]

Not thrilled, hope it's false or doesnt happen.

 

Are you kidding me???

Monroe is an allstar talent at a position that we have needed for years.

He plays inside and has good moves on the inside.

Please no. Monroe is playing like ass in Detroit

 

Didn't you say the same thing about Pau Gasol a while back?

[Diesel]

 The problem is that Monroe can't shoot from midrange, he can't get back in transition D or run out in transition on O, he doesn't block shots or protect the rim. If he could do any of those things then this would be a different story. But all he can do is score from within 3 feet, rebound well and pass well. He's horrid on defense, has slow feet, poor instincts on D and often times looks lazy. This is the last time I'm going to type any of these FACTS as they're apparently going in one ear and out the other. 

 

Let's get to the FACTS.

 

Monroe consistently beats his man down in transition.   Secondly, you are complaining about a guy who hit ~50% of his 2 point shots.  The way he has been successful is that he beats his man down on transition and scores on him.  He beats his man down in transition and starts his low post game.  He gets the ball in a face up High post position and drives to the hoop on him.   This guys is second only to Al Jefferson in Post up basketball and could be better because he's faster.  Our game is made for this type of player at C.  Somebody who can be dynamic in that position and when he gets the ball down low, it's almost guaranteed that he will score.  Think about it... With Sap and Korver and DMCthea.t.g. keeping the floor open... Teague or Monroe can score inside.  He is what we wish that Horf could be.

Secondly, when did rebounding become NOT defense?  He's not Deke but this guy can stop second chance baskets.  That's something that Horf doesn't do well either.

 

I think that after the 15th of this month, Detroit will be begging for us to make a deal with them.

[Admin]

Let's get to the FACTS.

Monroe consistently beats his man down in transition. Secondly, you are complaining about a guy who hit ~50% of his 2 point shots. The way he has been successful is that he beats his man down on transition and scores on him. He beats his man down in transition and starts his low post game. He gets the ball in a face up High post position and drives to the hoop on him. This guys is second only to Al Jefferson in Post up basketball and could be better because he's faster. Our game is made for this type of player at C. Somebody who can be dynamic in that position and when he gets the ball down low, it's almost guaranteed that he will score. Think about it... With Sap and Korver and DMCthea.t.g. keeping the floor open... Teague or Monroe can score inside. He is what we wish that Horf could be.

Secondly, when did rebounding become NOT defense? He's not Deke but this guy can stop second chance baskets. That's something that Horf doesn't do well either.

I think that after the 15th of this month, Detroit will be begging for us to make a deal with them.

Let's not let the truth get in the way of a good lie huh D? Go watch some of their games and talk to their fans. See how often he's slow to get down the court on both ends. Just because he's got the speed to potentially do it doesn't mean he does.

And he's slow footed with terrible instincts on D when he's anywhere outside of the paint. In the paint he's almost zero threat to block a shot. Don't give me that hogwash about rebounding being part of D. What good is rebounding when your man destroys you.

Yeah he's an amazing scorer. From 3' and in. But enjoy lapping up that FG% while ignoring where those points come from. If you can't see that it's a problem when a guy doesn't need to be defended outside of 3' then you've got no business claiming to know anything about basketball.

Funny you mention Horford when he's put up 17/11 for his career vs Monroe. I guess Monroe's terrific D wasn't able to stop a player with actual quick feet. And I believe Monroe's numbers (posted earlier in this thread) vs Horford are 10/7. Oh that's just scary good against a guy who's notorious around here for struggling with big athletic C's.