Guest Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) So here we go:Tweet Added - Refresh Page to see it live!If you don't see the Tweet here AFTER REFRESHING PAGE, then it wasn't entered correctly. Please edit and try again.Important: If the Tweet doesn't load, please refresh the page before editing the Tweet as it may need to refresh to parse properlyOoOOOOooooOOOooOOOo, it's a fancy Bayesian procedure! Cool buzzword dude. Care to expand on your priors or would you rather toss around words without context? LET'S EXAMINE! When the post-Josh Smith Detroit Pistons face the East-leading Atlanta Hawks on Monday afternoon, it's undeniably a matchup of two of the league's hottest teams (2:30 ET, ESPN).A new metric developed by ESPN Analytics suggests the Pistons do not stack up well against the Hawks.You may be familiar with the Basketball Power Index from college basketball. ESPN's NBA version, which debuts Monday and will appear each week, is similar to the College BPI and the Hollinger Power Rankings but with some sophisticated tweaks so that it accounts for overall strength of schedule, pace, number of days of rest, game location and preseason expectations.The Hawks have won 12 straight in impressive style. BPI shows Atlanta has the league's ninth best offense which against an average defense, would typically score 1.6 points more than an average team per 100 possessions. Defensively, the Hawks are 12th, and similarly you'd expect their D to hold opponents to 1.5 fewer points per 100 possessions.Adding the Hawks offensive rating (1.6) and defensive rating (1.5) gives them a total BPI of 3.1, predicting that they would outscore an average team by 3.1 points per 100 possessions.Given that the Hawks are one of only eight teams to be above average in both offense and defense, are leading the Eastern Conference, and have won 12 in a row, why aren't they higher in the rankings?NBA Basketball Power Index RankingsRank Team Offense Defense Total Last Week1 Golden State Warriors 4.2 4.7 8.9 12 Los Angeles Clippers 6.3 -0.5 5.8 23 Portland Trail Blazers 2.9 2.0 4.8 34 San Antonio Spurs 0.7 4.1 4.8 65 Dallas Mavericks 6.0 -1.4 4.7 46 Oklahoma City Thunder 1.3 2.9 4.2 87 Memphis Grizzlies 1.1 2.9 4.0 98 Toronto Raptors 4.8 -1.0 3.8 59 Houston Rockets 1.4 2.3 3.6 710 Atlanta Hawks 1.6 1.5 3.1 1111 Chicago Bulls 1.1 1.7 2.8 1012 Phoenix Suns 2.9 -1.0 1.9 1213 Cleveland Cavaliers 3.9 -2.0 1.9 1314 Washington Wizards -0.7 2.2 1.5 1415 New Orleans Pelicans 2.2 -1.1 1.2 1516 Milwaukee Bucks -2.3 1.8 -0.5 1617 Charlotte Hornets -3.9 2.7 -1.2 1718 Denver Nuggets -0.6 -1.0 -1.6 1819 Miami Heat 0.0 -1.8 -1.8 1920 Brooklyn Nets -1.7 -0.3 -2.1 2121 Detroit Pistons -1.3 -1.0 -2.3 2222 Sacramento Kings -0.5 -2.0 -2.5 2323 Indiana Pacers -5.9 3.3 -2.6 2024 Boston Celtics -1.6 -2.0 -3.5 2425 Utah Jazz -1.8 -2.4 -4.2 2526 Los Angeles Lakers -0.6 -3.6 -4.2 2627 New York Knickerbockers -1.5 -3.8 -5.3 2728 Orlando Magic -4.8 -0.9 -5.7 2829 Minnesota Timberwolves -2.3 -5.8 -8.1 2930 Philadelphia 76ers -10.9 -0.4 -11.3 30BPI projects the Hawks have a 58 percent chance to win the East with a total of about 56 wins, but still ranks them behind the Raptors and Bulls in the East, because the Hawks have played an easy schedule so far -- the 20th hardest -- and yet have the 19th-hardest schedule for the remainder of the season. The Hawks are the beneficiaries of being in the East with only one other team (the Chicago Bulls) that is above average in offense and defense which drives their strength of schedule, or lack thereof.Because the NBA BPI adjusts for competition faced, the Hawks' light schedule means that their 30 wins are not nearly as impressive as the Warriors' or Blazers', whose wins have mostly come in the tougher West. (The Warriors have played the eighth-hardest schedule this season and the Blazers have had the second-hardest.) Additionally, the expectations for the Hawks were low heading into the season -- so while the Hawks may be in the process of proving those expectations wrong, they may also be on a hot streak that will end and they could fade back -- it is, after all, a long NBA season.But on Monday, the Hawks' next challenge is to win one more, and according to BPI, the Pistons won't be much of a challenge: The Hawks have a 76 percent chance to win.http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12188507/atlanta-hawks-middle-pack-bpi-rankingsOK, nothing he has said is remotely Bayesian. Clearly, he is using that as a buzzword to sound important. He could be doing a Bayesian analysis, but without explanation you shouldn't assume he is. Next thing you know, he'll talk about "machine learning" without giving any indication that he understands what is going on with that.But further, there is one huuuuuge problem where Alamar says:"Because the NBA BPI adjusts for competition faced, the Hawks' light schedule means that their 30 wins are not nearly as impressive as the Warriors' or Blazers', whose wins have mostly come in the tougher West. (The Warriors have played the eighth-hardest schedule this season and the Blazers have had the second-hardest.)"This is demonstrably FALSE: 2014-15 NBA RPI RankingsRK TEAM RPI W L PCT SOS PWR PF PA EWL EWP1 Phoenix .503 24 18 .571 .480 10 4495 4398 25-17 .5892 Brooklyn .465 17 24 .415 .481 23 3918 4010 17-24 .4053 Milwaukee .495 21 19 .525 .485 15 3938 3890 22-18 .550Washington .535 28 13 .683 .485 12 4069 3995 24-17 .5755 Dallas .537 28 13 .683 .488 9 4448 4202 29-12 .7196 Portland .550 30 11 .732 .490 3 4232 3975 30-11 .7387 Chicago .529 27 15 .643 .491 5 4297 4180 26-16 .6128 Atlanta .570 33 8 .805 .492 1 4236 3961 31-10 .752Detroit .467 16 25 .390 .492 16 4013 4082 18-23 .430Toronto .532 26 14 .650 .492 11 4271 4058 28-12 .69911 Indiana .460 15 27 .357 .495 24 3986 4059 18-24 .426Golden State .582 32 6 .842 .495 2 4180 3766 32-6 .84813 Minnesota .418 7 32 .179 .497 29 3858 4216 7-32 .18814 Denver .487 18 22 .450 .500 22 4092 4152 18-22 .440Orlando .460 15 29 .341 .500 28 4178 4432 12-32 .27416 Houston .546 28 13 .683 .501 6 4200 4034 27-14 .660Boston .461 13 25 .342 .501 27 3887 3960 16-22 .42418 Charlotte .474 16 25 .390 .502 20 3917 4028 16-25 .38719 San Antonio .532 26 16 .619 .503 7 4276 4098 28-14 .66920 Philadelphia .429 8 32 .200 .505 26 3616 4102 4-36 .11121 Memphis .561 29 11 .725 .506 4 4077 3915 26-14 .66122 Cleveland .508 21 20 .512 .507 17 4127 4127 21-21 .500Miami .493 18 22 .450 .507 19 3741 3888 14-26 .346Sacramento .480 16 24 .400 .507 21 4077 4156 17-23 .421LA Clippers .545 27 14 .659 .507 8 4381 4127 30-11 .72826 Oklahoma City .506 20 20 .500 .508 13 4009 3951 22-18 .56027 New York .415 5 36 .122 .513 30 3794 4169 7-34 .17428 Utah .471 14 27 .341 .515 18 3915 4055 15-26 .35929 New Orleans .516 20 20 .500 .521 14 4028 4019 20-20 .50930 LA Lakers .474 12 29 .293 .534 25 4116 4367 11-30 .274http://espn.go.com/nba/stats/rpi/_/sort/SOS/order/falseMight be hard to read for formatting issues, but see that? Portland has a strength of schedule of .490 right now. That ranks 6th worst. ATL has .492 which is tied for 8th worst. But Ben Alamar says that Portland has the 2nd hardest schedule. This is directly from ESPN.Get the f*** out dude. You're a f***ing hack. You stole money from OKC and are stealing money from ESPN. What a f***ing joke. And he won't even explain his methodology. He is a prototypical example of someone I would say gives analytics a bad name. He has no f***ing idea what is going on. And he is making demonstrably bad mistakes in either calculation, analysis, or both. Probably both.Edit: added in link to original Alamar article. Edited January 19, 2015 by hawksfanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCVicious Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 The dude also needs to work on his website game. That angelfire circa 95' website is not going to get him any new clients. http://www.alamarsportsanalytics.com/default.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillyMo Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 "NBA Basketball Power Index Rankings" How are the Clippers second? Lol what. These index power rankings from ESPN are always garb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 19, 2015 Moderators Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I saw that article over lunch. Wouldn't have used it to wipe up anything I spilled if it was in print. Crazy trash. Atlanta allows the least points in the league but their defense can't even make the top 10? Other ESPN analysts say they are top 5 in both offense and defense but they aren't in either category here? With no explanation? GTFO. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 The dude also needs to work on his website game. That angelfire circa 95' website is not going to get him any new clients. http://www.alamarsportsanalytics.com/default.htmlHahaha, I didn't want to go too crazy on the Alamar hate but yes. This just typifies that he is a hack and is more interested in selling snake oil than doing *actual* work.He is in his position right now because Dean Oliver left ESPN to work with the Kings. Why was Alamar selected? I have no f***ing clue. He is the type of person who would write a book on "The 10 Habits of Highly Effective Individuals"!Oh wait...http://www.amazon.com/Sports-Analytics-Coaches-Managers-Decision-ebook/dp/B00APDGFOC/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1421702364&sr=1-1<- that is basically a self-help book applied to sports. Or in other words: bullshit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 That's how it is.... When ESPN gives credit to this team it's basically backhanded. They consistantly find articles and stats that try to influence public opinion that someone else is still better no matter what the Hawks do. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I saw that article over lunch. Wouldn't have used it to wipe up anything I spilled if it was in print. Crazy trash. Atlanta allows the least points in the league but their defense can't even make the top 10? Other ESPN analysts say they are top 5 in both offense and defense but they aren't in either category here? With no explanation? GTFO.Exactly.I am pretty sure this is a mixture of user error and misapplication of Bayesian statistical analysis. It is clearly user error from him claiming that the Blazers have the 2nd toughest schedule...all the metrics for SOS have them in the bottom 3rd! EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.The misapplication comes because I don't think he is updating his priors correctly. Notice that OKC is in the top 10? Yeah.......I don't think you know how this works Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachx Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Bla, bla, bla. Its comes down to matchups, execution, and some lucky bounces. Edited January 19, 2015 by coachx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLHawks3 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 This guy is a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hi Ben you got a response? Tweet Added - Refresh Page to see it live!If you don't see the Tweet here AFTER REFRESHING PAGE, then it wasn't entered correctly. Please edit and try again.Important: If the Tweet doesn't load, please refresh the page before editing the Tweet as it may need to refresh to parse properly Uhhhh, what? That sounds preposterous. Tweet Added - Refresh Page to see it live!If you don't see the Tweet here AFTER REFRESHING PAGE, then it wasn't entered correctly. Please edit and try again.Important: If the Tweet doesn't load, please refresh the page before editing the Tweet as it may need to refresh to parse properly f***ing idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Mule Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Brilliant writing! Notice that the reason that Atlanta is winning is because of their weak schedule. We know. We've been hearing this for some time. We're rated #10, only 2 behind #8 Toronto Raptors! Ain't that great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted January 19, 2015 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) This dude sounds like some of our posters! Who does he think he is? Hotlanta? Edited January 19, 2015 by Peoriabird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Power rankings and that kind of computer generated nonsense went out of style with the BCS. We have standings and records. We don't need no power rankings. I think their computer just said "Oh, the Hawks? All they do is win games." Or put another way, I'd never trade a single win for a first place in the power rankings. Edited January 19, 2015 by Randy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plainview1981 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) This dude sounds like some of our posters! Who does he think he is? Hotlanta? It's only took the team 15 years to prove me wrong about most anything. It's funny how homers can't accept an point of view that's not..... Well, homerish. Edited January 20, 2015 by Hotlanta1981 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 19, 2015 Moderators Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Hi Ben you got a response? Uhhhh, what? That sounds preposterous. f***ing idiot. No, no. It isn't preposterous, @hawksfanatic. It is simply totally out of line with the rest of the way people look at basketball without any definition behind it other than oblique allusion. Moreover, how does that work? Atlanta has played more road games than the top 3 teams in the East and the top 7 teams in the West. They have played 8 back-to-back games so far (the same or more than GS and Port to use two I just grabbed for context). Total rest days are simply a matter of total games played (season starts on day 1 and then every day without a game is a day of rest). Since the Hawks have played as many or more games than the top 8 teams in either division, we have to be on the low end of rest. So using days of rest, home/away, and distance traveled and knowing that the Hawks have the: * Fewest rest days of all playoff bound teams and * Most road games of all playoff bound teams (with the exception of Milwaukee) = Easy schedule. What?!? It is time to show your work or get a failing grade, Mr. Alamar. Edited January 20, 2015 by AHF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 "Bane-sian"? What's Batman got to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted January 20, 2015 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 It's only took the team 15 years to prove me wrong about most anything. It's funny how homers can't accept an point of view that's not..... Well, homerish. Now that's the Hotlanta I know! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Plainview1981 Posted January 20, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Any formula that says the Clippers are the 2nd best team in the league is WRONG. Edited January 20, 2015 by Hotlanta1981 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Vol4ever Posted January 20, 2015 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 If I was ESPN this idiot would be given his pink slip. What a dork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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