Sefolosha vs. Carroll 2014-15 regular season numbers say we'll be ***MORE THAN OKAY*** at starting SF

[NBASupes]

Give me the 2014-15 numbers that support that, and maybe we can find some common ground.

We don't have a sample size for that. What we do have is his stats playing those minutes for previous teams.

[sturt]

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I thought that's where you'd want to go... you do have to look past last year to a different team with a star-player offense to get to part of the conclusion you're looking to support.

 

For the record, at least as far as the part about him playing more minutes and being less effective, I don't see much difference in his top 30 games in minutes-played, and what I do see seems to actually point in the opposite direction from your assertion--ie, for the Draft Kings fantasy players, he topped 20.0 7x among his top 15, and only 2x in the bottom 15... so in those games that we might most probably consider his best, at least as indicated by an objective overall fantasy score, he actually was playing the most minutes.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2015 by sturt

[NBASupes]

I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I thought that's where you'd want to go... you do have to look past last year to a different team with a star-player offense to get to part of the conclusion you're looking to support.

 

For the record, at least as far as the part about him playing more minutes and being less effective, I don't see much difference in his top 30 games in minutes-played, and what I do see seems to actually point in the opposite direction from your assertion--ie, for the Draft Kings fantasy players, he topped 20.0 7x among his top 15, and only 2x in the bottom 15... so in those games that we might most probably consider his best, at least as indicated by an objective overall fantasy score, he actually was playing the most minutes.

 

 

Look at the context. Most of these games where v. teams under .500, blowouts and a couple standouts like his game v. Portland.

[NBASupes]

@sturt

 

Production by Position

Player Floor Time Stats by Position

Position Min Net Pts Off Def Net48 W L Win% PG   0% -2  548.6  822.9 -274.3   1 0% SG   17% +193  105.3  91.5 13.7 32 15 68% SF   7% -17  86.9  89.7 -2.8 17 18 48% PF   0% -2  83.8  91.4 -7.6 1 1 50% C                

[sturt]

Ummm... this is where you might want to stare at the five-man units a little more, my friend... ie, when is Sef the 2 and when is Korver the 3? Or vice-versa? This is where it gets a bit arbitrary for a player like him that ends up spending as much time as he does on the floor with another wing who also plays both 2 and 3. You'll find that the top 3 units that Sef played in were with Korver, and that means the majority of his minutes.

 

And to the prior post, I would remind you that we're talking about your assertion that...

 

"with minutes and a bigger role his production completely goes down."

 

Sooooo... if nothing else...  THAT statement is NOT supported by THOSE numbers. His production is AT LEAST the same, and at least at first glance, is better.

 

All I know at this point is, you REALLY don't want Thabo starting. And based on the other thread, you REALLY want to make a deal for a new starter at the 3.

 

I still don't have any firm reason why that is.

Edited July 4, 2015 by sturt

[JRid]

I know I don't post here a lot, but I have to say Thabo does not need to be starting for the Hawks. He is coming off a serious injury and will still be recovering plus he was one of the worst shooters I've seen last season. He got better shooting, but it took awhile and it still wasn't that great.

 

I like Thabo and was happy when we signed him, but some of his shots were ridiculous. He hit the side of the backboard from the corner quite a few times. He also shot air balls and just looked really bad. I remember a lot of times saying wow how does an NBA player shoot that bad and what the heck is going on with him. He reminded me of Zaza when he used to miss so many shots from 1 foot away.  As I mentioned he did improve, but I just don't have confidence that he will be a good shooter after this long recovery from injury, etc.

[NBASupes]

I know I don't post here a lot, but I have to say Thabo does not need to be starting for the Hawks. He is coming off a serious injury and will still be recovering plus he was one of the worst shooters I've seen last season. He got better shooting, but it took awhile and it still wasn't that great.

 

I like Thabo and was happy when we signed him, but some of his shots were ridiculous. He hit the side of the backboard from the corner quite a few times. He also shot air balls and just looked really bad. I remember a lot of times saying wow how does an NBA player shoot that bad and what the heck is going on with him. He reminded me of Zaza when he used to miss so many shots from 1 foot away.  As I mentioned he did improve, but I just don't have confidence that he will be a good shooter after this long recovery from injury, etc.

Like I said, sturt is my man but he completely was out of context w/ this one. Thabo scoring is bad. The only thing making him more vauable on offense than Bazemore is his off the ball movement which Baze is still inconsistent at.

[NBASupes]

Ummm... this is where you might want to stare at the five-man units a little more, my friend... ie, when is Sef the 2 and when is Korver the 3? Or vice-versa? This is where it gets a bit arbitrary for a player like him that ends up spending as much time as he does on the floor with another wing who also plays both 2 and 3. You'll find that the top 3 units that Sef played in were with Korver, and that means the majority of his minutes.

 

And to the prior post, I would remind you that we're talking about your assertion that...

 

"with minutes and a bigger role his production completely goes down."

 

Sooooo... if nothing else...  THAT statement is NOT supported by THOSE numbers. His production is AT LEAST the same, and at least at first glance, is better.

 

All I know at this point is, you REALLY don't want Thabo starting. And based on the other thread, you REALLY want to make a deal for a new starter at the 3.

 

I still don't have any firm reason why that is.

No, I don't want Thabo starting. That ship sailed for me when I saw how inept Thabo is on offense. He's not Bazemore bad but he's not someone we can rely on especially when you notice we don't have a #1 option so everyone must be competent on offense.

[sturt]

Here's the odd thing about what you're saying, and I acknowledge that the first several games he wasn't impressing anyone.

 

That is, as bad as that might have been.... he MUST have done THAT MUCH BETTER over the rest of the season to STILL essentially end up mirroring Carroll's stats as is demonstrated in the OP.

 

Don't think we're going to get together on this one. But I'm glad you're the one holding onto the subjective measures. I feel much more secure in my conclusion with the objective ones.

[NBASupes]

Here's the odd thing about what you're saying, and I acknowledge that the first several games he wasn't impressing anyone.

 

That is, as bad as that might have been.... he MUST have done THAT MUCH BETTER over the rest of the season to STILL essentially end up mirroring Carroll's stats as is demonstrated in the OP.

 

Don't think we're going to get together on this one. But I'm glad you're the one holding onto the subjective measures. I feel much more secure in my conclusion with the objective ones.

He was like Bazemore, he had moments of competence but was pretty much meh for the most part. He came in to do a job. Play great defense, run in transition and move off the ball.

[sturt]

I'm done on this one. Bud, if you're reading this, I think you have all you need to know at this point to reach a rational decision. :D

[NBASupes]

DMC's BPM, VORP and WS crush Thabo's. Thabo has had the same type of VORP his whole career.

 

I like how you managed to talk out of context but looking at the numbers, Carroll is a superior player and he is also the highly valued 3 and D player.

 

Thabo is a defensive specialist. One who can't stay healthy. This was an entertaining thread but let's be real, we will dramatically fall off inserting Thabo into the starting five on a Permanent level.

[skimaskway23]

Inserting thabo into the lineup will not result in a huge drop off. Can he stay healthy long enough is the bigger question.

[NBASupes]

Inserting thabo into the lineup will not result in a huge drop off. Can he stay healthy long enough is the bigger question.

How so?

[ATLHawks3]

We'll miss DMC's 3 point shooting, but there won't be a drop off defensively.

[NBASupes]

We'll miss DMC's 3 point shooting, but there won't be a drop off defensively.

It wasn't just his shooting, DMC was a reliable scorer and he was efficient. One of the most efficient players on the team. The only players more efficient was Horford and Korver who are two of the best in the NBA at it.

Edited July 4, 2015 by NBASupes

[skimaskway23]

He was efficient because he was assisted on damn near 86% of his shots. Look, thabo would move n cut just as much as carroll given the opportunity. Granted thabo wont shoot as well as demarre did, but I dont see demarre keeping that 3pt % up in toronto either.

I think we are starting to overstate demarre's impact on the offensive end.

[asdogg]

Grant Hill !

[NBASupes]

He was efficient because he was assisted on damn near 86% of his shots. Look, thabo would move n cut just as much as carroll given the opportunity. Granted thabo wont shoot as well as demarre did, but I dont see demarre keeping that 3pt % up in toronto either.

I think we are starting to overstate demarre's impact on the offensive end.

Thabo did move and cut and he was still a limited offensive player. Corey Brewer moves and cuts and he's still a limited offensive player. Thabo isn't even a scorer at all. His best year scoring was 7.6 PPG. He's a completely limited scorer who is a below average shooter. Having high BBIQ is fine. Being able to move off the ball and score off of offensive boards is fine. But we are taking a major step back with Thabo.

 

How are we overstating Demarre's offensive impact? He was a reliable scorer. That was one thing that really helped. He wasn't just reliable this year, he was reliable as a scorer last year. The difference is, DMC added a consistent 3pt shooting and better handles to his game from last year. I think you are understating Demarre's impact.

Edited July 4, 2015 by NBASupes

[nitte]

Wilson Chandler is on a very reasonable expiring contract (~ 7 mil). I really hope we can go after him.