Nique getting a bit of respect on ESPN

[Hawkmoor]

20 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

I don't know why this isn't the default method on handling Lebron. I've barely ever seen him kill teams with his outside shooting as his primary offense. But when you double team him, he'll easily kill you with his playmaking ability.

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Rememember the game in the playoffs where Sap came out to check Lebron on the wing, and he blew past Sap and Korver ran out of the way for the Lebron Dunk?? lmao  You DONT check Lebron on the wing. You back down to the paint and DARE him to shoot the ball. If he comes into the paint, you PUNISH him.

 

[nathan2331]

20 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

I don't know why this isn't the default method on handling Lebron. I've barely ever seen him kill teams with his outside shooting as his primary offense. But when you double team him, he'll easily kill you with his playmaking ability.

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Rememember the game in the playoffs where Sap came out to check Lebron on the wing, and he blew past Sap and Korver ran out of the way for the Lebron Dunk?? lmao  You DONT check Lebron on the wing. You back down to the paint and DARE him to shoot the ball. If he comes into the paint, you PUNISH him.

 

I really hope Bud learned something from that series, because we made Lebron look better than he's ever been. Millsap has the ability to cover Lebron 16ft and in, so there's no reason to try and chase him off the 3 point line.

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[macdaddy]

21 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

I really hope Bud learned something from that series, because we made Lebron look better than he's ever been. Millsap has the ability to cover Lebron 16ft and in, so there's no reason to try and chase him off the 3 point line.

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That was really the only time he beat sap but it's what everyone remembers.   Why korver thinks lebrun is going to kick the ball is beyond me.   But Lebron tried driving on sap about 10 times in a row and missed almost all of them.     Not saying Sap is a good guys to have on him in general but he didn't get enough credit for the job he did in that one quarter and if korver steps in front and fouls him then we don't have this gif to see all the time.

[Hawkmoor]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

That was really the only time he beat sap but it's what everyone remembers.   Why korver thinks lebrun is going to kick the ball is beyond me.   But Lebron tried driving on sap about 10 times in a row and missed almost all of them.     Not saying Sap is a good guys to have on him in general but he didn't get enough credit for the job he did in that one quarter and if korver steps in front and fouls him then we don't have this gif to see all the time.

Good point.  Regardless, i still say let Lebron get his. Sap has no business playing on ball defense on the wing because the Hawks NEED him on the boards, since Horford doesnt wanna play in the paint. Sap gets worn out.  Sap IS the modern day Dominique for the Hawks because of the fact, as you pointed out about his defense on Lebron, Sap is asked to do too much because of lack of talent around him.

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Good point.  Regardless, i still say let Lebron get his. Sap has no business playing on ball defense on the wing because the Hawks NEED him on the boards, since Horford doesnt wanna play in the paint. Sap gets worn out.  Sap IS the modern day Dominique for the Hawks because of the fact, as you pointed out about his defense on Lebron, Sap is asked to do too much because of lack of talent around him.

I agree and if fact he's asked to do too much of everything except score.   We should be giving him the ball more since he's the only guy really bringing it this year offensively.    When the 'system' is clicking it's fine but when everyone else is turning the ball over and bricking we should recognize that and get the ball to Sap until somebody stops him.

[AUhawksfan]

I don't understand the Lebron hate.  If he's overrated, it's the league's doing but I still think he is rightly in that spot.

Who else his size can move like him and have the playmaking ability on top of the scoring?  I agree the best way to play him is to back off him and let him shoot but he proved that doesn't always work when the Spurs did that and they beat them in 2013.

Does he get major calls and is always trying to take advantage of it?  Sure, but who wouldn't?  I once again blame the league for that.

At the end of the day he's a good character guy that is successful on the court and does a lot to help others off of it.  He's a good face for the NBA and they've gone out of their way to make him just that.  I understand the frustration with some for how he left Cleveland to go to Miami but it seems these days people just hate on him for no reason.

[Hawkmoor]

16 hours ago, AUhawksfan said:

I don't understand the Lebron hate.  If he's overrated, it's the league's doing but I still think he is rightly in that spot.

Who else his size can move like him and have the playmaking ability on top of the scoring?  I agree the best way to play him is to back off him and let him shoot but he proved that doesn't always work when the Spurs did that and they beat them in 2013.

Does he get major calls and is always trying to take advantage of it?  Sure, but who wouldn't?  I once again blame the league for that.

At the end of the day he's a good character guy that is successful on the court and does a lot to help others off of it.  He's a good face for the NBA and they've gone out of their way to make him just that.  I understand the frustration with some for how he left Cleveland to go to Miami but it seems these days people just hate on him for no reason.

Everybody in this thread that commented on Lebron STATED that its the league and media that goes overboard about Lebron.  Also, Lebron isnt the only athlete who has good character and gives off the court. Its MARKETING FOR THE LEAGUE, period.  The more popular basketball is, the more money everybody makes, the media, league, teams, etc.   What people dont like is the result of that: forcing  players on the fans. Dominique wasnt one of their chosen ones to MARKET.  Thats what this thread is REALLY about.   When they made that top 50 player list, it was all a popularity contest.   Heck, the list that was posted by ESPN in this thread is STILL a popularity list. 

[AUhawksfan]

7 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

Everybody in this thread that commented on Lebron STATED that its the league and media that goes overboard about Lebron.  Also, Lebron isnt the only athlete who has good character and gives off the court. Its MARKETING FOR THE LEAGUE, period.  The more popular basketball is, the more money everybody makes, the media, league, teams, etc.   What people dont like is the result of that: forcing  players on the fans. Dominique wasnt one of their chosen ones to MARKET.  Thats what this thread is REALLY about.   When they made that top 50 player list, it was all a popularity contest.   Heck, the list that was posted by ESPN in this thread is STILL a popularity list. 

I can agree with that.

[Atlantaholic]

Advanced Stats are not all that kind to Nique, but this seems low even if that is the barometer. 

[Hawkmoor]

10 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Advanced Stats are not all that kind to Nique, but this seems low even if that is the barometer. 

I got ONE stat for you. Name ONE player that the Hawks have had on their roster SINCE Dominique that is anywhere NEAR the value or talent he brought to that team...........Nique carried the Hawks for years and the team never recovered from trading him away.

[Hawkmoor]

 

http://www.nba.com/hawks/history/oral-history-outtakes-dominique-wilkins-underrated-superstar-0

Oral History Outtakes: Dominique Wilkins, Underrated Superstar

by Micah Hart

Nique’s teammates and foes reflect on the greatness of a Hall of Famer whose all-around skills were often overshadowed by his tremendous dunking prowess.

Cliff Levingston: Dominique was more than a dunker, he was a scorer.  He was a mid-range to a little bit deeper than mid-range type of shooter. He was great at getting to the basket, his spin move, I don’t care who was in front of him, that spin move was unbelievably hard to guard. He had a lot of dunks, but he had more mid-range shots and spin moves than dunks.

Kevin Willis:  He led the league in scoring and it wasn’t all off dunks. He was a fascinating dunker, a phenomenal dunker. But Nique could put the ball on the floor, he could shoot, he could post up, he had the in-between game, he had the up-and-under.  I remember coming in my rookie year and watching him like “Wow, this guy is incredible, man.” He was so gifted athletically, he could do anything he wanted. Then on defense, when Nique wanted to play defense, he could play defense. Everybody didn’t want to give him credit on that end but Nique could play some defense for sure.

Mark Bradley: I’ve gotten into a lot of arguments with basketball people over the perception of Dominique Wilkins because when he came into the league he was what a lot of people thought he was. He was a dunker. But every summer he would go out and learn something new. I mean he couldn’t shoot a jump shot when he came into the league, but he became a great shooter. That bank shot, he taught himself that. He used the backboard as well as Bailey Howell or somebody that had a great bank shot. He was, of the players I’ve actually seen in person, he used the backboard better than anyone. He made himself into a player, not just a talent.

I remember Rick Pitino once saying of Antoine Walker, that he has to decide whether he wants to be Dominique Wilkins or Magic Johnson. Like one was bad and one was good. That really offended me because, Earvin Johnson was the greatest player in the history of basketball. But Dominique Wilkins did things for the Atlanta Hawks that if you would have put Earvin Johnson in here I’m not sure he would have done the same things without James Worthy and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar beside him. Dominique Wilkins had to be the focal point and he was the focal point of a team that wasn’t the best team in the league but was pretty darn good for a little while in a time where there were a lot of good teams in the NBA.

Dominique Wilkins: I tell people all the time, it’s hard to get 26,000 points on dunks.

Spud Webb: I’ve never seen a guy get that short-sticked on everything as far as being a superstar. He led the league in scoring, teams won 50 games, he rebounds, he scores at will. I can just imagine how many points he would score if he was playing with Derrick Rose today. He didn’t make the Olympics that one year, he didn’t win the dunk contest against Jordan in Chicago, he didn’t win a championship. This guy always did what it took to win, played hard, and they just overlook him for some reason. This guy went hard every day, even at practice -- this dude hated to miss practice. You don’t find too many guys that love to play basketball like Dominique does. He probably still thinks he could score 20 points.

Steve Holman: That was the game where Larry really gained respect for Dominique.  They met each other here two or three years ago when the Pacers came in and it was the first time they said they had taken a picture together. Can you imagine that? They were the key members of that ‘88 game that is always on ESPN Classic and it was fun for me to sit there and watch them talk about it. And I could really tell that Larry, who probably in his career up until that point probably thought Dominique was a dunker, a showman, not one of the great players. But I could tell when Dominique talked to him that night a couple of years ago,  that he really felt like he had the great respect for Dominique and he expressed that to him and I think it meant a lot to Dominique too.

I think it was one of the great injustices of all time in the NBA that he didn’t make that top-50 team. I still can’t believe that because when he retired he was the 7th leading scorer in the history of the NBA.  He and Bob McAdoo are probably the two guys I think I’m the most shocked didn’t make that team.

Jeff Twiss: He deserves more. Maybe my hunch is people make critical of him for not being quite the defensive player. I still think he had a great all-around game. He could still see the court, he could still anticipate things, still make some good passes. I though his defense was good. I think that he and Larry both had a similar trait, though I bet many people would disagree with me. I think they were great team defensive players. Individually they weren’t the greatest, but team defensively they could fill lanes and do that. They were kings of doing that, both of them.

Larry Bird: Dominique was a real scorer in the league. I mean he was one of the top players ever. You watch Carmelo Anthony and he’s a scorer and that’s what Dominique was, a scorer. He made plays. Yeah he could jump and he could dunk, but he could play.

Tommy Heinsohn: He was a great scorer period. He was a fabulous athlete and he knew how to use his body. He was a terrific competitor and he went out and played hard every game I ever saw.

[AHF]

Re Larry Bird's comment, Nique pisses on Carmelo.