Understanding Buds philosophy

[benhillboy]

I found it interesting that the little "Hawks Cycle" sticker in the players' lockers has changed from the past two years. There were 4 factors but it has expanded to about 6, couldn't tell for sure.  "Finish Defense" is the new one I could recognize that wasn't there before.  

Justice Winslow feeling real confident tonight I see on Twitter.  They won't make it back from 23 down.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, Vol4ever said:

Help facilitate a free agent signing.   Terrible trade for us he cant rebound or score either.    Why wont bud go after one of these free agent rebounding bigs available.

 

Thanks

Lol at people making an argument using the Splitter trade as evidence that Bud is interested in a low post bruiser that rebounds and post up!  LOL!

[Mdizzle5]

9 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

You need to take that up with Bud!

Yea? Point me to his office!

 

[DS17Fanboy]

vor 20 Stunden, Peoriabird sagte:

There is a reason Dirk rebound a modest 7.9rpg for his career...He shoots a lot of 3's  so does out center now.

Thing is Dirk was 9-10 a game rebounder but made a conscious effort to reinvent his game towards the perimeter. Also as he said because he was feeling his bones and didnt want to bang as much. That cant be on Horfords mind right now(and I know it isnt).

And for everyone stepping on the lame 6th all time scoring white shooter..which I'll admit is easy these days

Man he looked like a teutonic demigod back in the day...

 

[benhillboy]

31 minutes ago, DS17Fanboy said:

Thing is Dirk was 9-10 a game rebounder but made a conscious effort to reinvent his game towards the perimeter. Also as he said because he was feeling his bones and didnt want to bang as much. That cant be on Horfords mind right now(and I know it isnt).

And for everyone stepping on the lame 6th all time scoring white shooter..which I'll admit is easy these days

Man he looked like a teutonic demigod back in the day...

 

It's become kinda en vouge to discount Dirk's game these days, especially after Kareem did it.  I can see how some may think he's been "overrated" or "incomplete" but I don't subscribe.  I can't knock his defense when he never had any tools to do so.

His Finals run had to be one of the Greatest Ever.  And unlike Al, he's always had a weakling upper body like KD.  Their length in terms of the glass isn't effective versus True Bigs who box them out without even feeling it.  8-10 boards consistently from both is solid in my book.  

Al on the other hand averaged 13 in a 7 game series as a rookie versus Garnett so I look at him sideways any time he's under 8 as a vet.

Totally unrelated, but my feelings go out to the departed who was so enthralled in pain from an accident today they shot themselves.  Lesser condolences to the drivers who witnessed such horror.  These f&@kin Atlanta roadways, man.  Y'all please be safe.

[DS17Fanboy]

I think Dirk could have muscled up easily, but he would turn into another Birdman or what have you and not this fast finesse 7 foot shooter who stays healthy season after season. He truly stated that he wanted to become this way and worked his way there and decided to not be a banger. He owned all that US talent(Chris Webber, Rashard Lewis)in the hoops summit in his younger years. And really his D is failing eyetests because it is always so obvious with him, but analytics wise he actually was one of the better defenders in league for many years.

http://www.nba.com/hoop/lowpost/dirk_nowitzki_is__great_defen_2011_05_10.html

"Dirk Nowitzki is a great defender. Dirk Nowitzki is a great defender.

REPEAT AFTER ME: Dirk Nowitzki is a great defender.

 

It gets a little tiring listen to people--like the experts on "Inside The NBA" ("Only God's an expert, Ernie")--criticize opposing power forwards for seeing their offensive game go south against Dirk, saying they shouldn't be struggling because Nowitzki is a lousy defender.

It's just not true. Hasn't been true for years now.

Granted, when he was a skinny youngster, you could push young Dirk around in the post.

But he's a seasoned, smart veteran who is one of the best defensive communicators in basketball.

Not only that, the 32-year-old Dallas Maverick has become one of the best defensive power forwards in the game, however you want to measure it.

He slowed down LaMarcus Aldridge in the first round. He stifled the Laker power forwards--Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom--in Round 2.

He made his team's defense 2.8 points per 48 minutes better in 2010-11 in Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus.

He's ranks second this season among power forwards only to Kevin Garnett in defensive Victory Value, when you combine defensive RAPM with minutes played.

And it's not just because he's playing alongside All-Defensive center Tyson Chandler this year.

In the last four seasons, Dirk maintains the same 2.8 defensive RAPM and ranks fourth among power forwards in defensive Victory Value--trailing only Odom, Kevin Garnett and Josh Smith--when you combine defensive RAPM with minutes played.

Dirk is also ninth on the defensive win shares active list for players at any position.

He's just an all-around stud."

Srry to hear about that accident story.

Edited February 25, 2016 by DS17Fanboy

[Peoriabird]

I'm not sure whether you guys are disagreeing with me or agreeing but the Dirk comparison is valid...Dirk started out as a strong rebounder just like Horford but somewhere along the way he made himself into more of a perimeter player.   Whether or not it was encouraged by coaching is unknown.  We know for a fact Bud told Al to become more of a perimeter player and that he should work on his three ball but the difference is that Dallas went out and got Dirk a center...What has Bud done?

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, DS17Fanboy said:

I think Dirk could have muscled up easily, but he would turn into another Birdman or what have you and not this fast finesse 7 foot shooter who stays healthy season after season. He truly stated that he wanted to become this way and worked his way there and decided to not be a banger. He owned all that US talent(Chris Webber, Rashard Lewis)in the hoops summit in his younger years. And really his D is failing eyetests because it is always so obvious with him, but analytics wise he actually was one of the better defenders in league for many years.

http://www.nba.com/hoop/lowpost/dirk_nowitzki_is__great_defen_2011_05_10.html

"Dirk Nowitzki is a great defender. Dirk Nowitzki is a great defender.

REPEAT AFTER ME: Dirk Nowitzki is a great defender.

 

It gets a little tiring listen to people--like the experts on "Inside The NBA" ("Only God's an expert, Ernie")--criticize opposing power forwards for seeing their offensive game go south against Dirk, saying they shouldn't be struggling because Nowitzki is a lousy defender.

It's just not true. Hasn't been true for years now.

Granted, when he was a skinny youngster, you could push young Dirk around in the post.

But he's a seasoned, smart veteran who is one of the best defensive communicators in basketball.

Not only that, the 32-year-old Dallas Maverick has become one of the best defensive power forwards in the game, however you want to measure it.

He slowed down LaMarcus Aldridge in the first round. He stifled the Laker power forwards--Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom--in Round 2.

He made his team's defense 2.8 points per 48 minutes better in 2010-11 in Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus.

He's ranks second this season among power forwards only to Kevin Garnett in defensive Victory Value, when you combine defensive RAPM with minutes played.

And it's not just because he's playing alongside All-Defensive center Tyson Chandler this year.

In the last four seasons, Dirk maintains the same 2.8 defensive RAPM and ranks fourth among power forwards in defensive Victory Value--trailing only Odom, Kevin Garnett and Josh Smith--when you combine defensive RAPM with minutes played.

Dirk is also ninth on the defensive win shares active list for players at any position.

He's just an all-around stud."

Srry to hear about that accident story.

Defensive rapm doesn't mean much to me but Dirk is an excellent team defender and it always goes unnoticed. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm not sure whether you guys are disagreeing with me or agreeing but the Dirk comparison is valid...Dirk started out as a strong rebounder just like Horford but somewhere along the way he made himself into more of a perimeter player.   Whether or not it was encouraged by coaching is unknown.  We know for a fact Bud told Al to become more of a perimeter player and that he should work on his three ball but the difference is that Dallas went out and got Dirk a center...What has Bud done?

We need to get a #1 option center if possible 

[nonono]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

We need to get a #1 option center if possible 

didn't the mavs bring in tyson chandler the year dirk got his ring?  A low post defender/ rebounder and a traditional #1 center, something al or millsap needs to compliment their game

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, nonono said:

didn't the mavs bring in tyson chandler the year dirk got his ring?  A low post defender/ rebounder and a traditional #1 center, something al or millsap needs to compliment their game

*Ding* *Ding* And we could have done the same thing this past off season but we had to have Millsap!

[DS17Fanboy]

I also brought up Tyson Chandler twice. I think in the off-season he would have gladly joined a 60 win team in the east to truly chase another ring and in this stage of his career and the damage done to his body he wouldnt mind a more limited role and a little less pay. He would have meant the world in a CLE series and could add another dimension to the Hawks system.  I think he could be had with Sap and Al staying. After 60 wins seasons you have to make a push forward no matter what.

[AHF]

14 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm not sure whether you guys are disagreeing with me or agreeing but the Dirk comparison is valid...Dirk started out as a strong rebounder just like Horford but somewhere along the way he made himself into more of a perimeter player.   Whether or not it was encouraged by coaching is unknown.  We know for a fact Bud told Al to become more of a perimeter player and that he should work on his three ball but the difference is that Dallas went out and got Dirk a center...What has Bud done?

I don't think it has anything to do with either guy deciding to become more perimeter oriented on offense.  It is about both guys deciding to back off and stop banging on defense.  So I buy the Dirk comparison on that basis but don't buy the perimeter excuse (see Kevin Love, etc.).

[JTB]

Bud has stuck with the thought that Rebounding wouldn't be as big of an issue if shots were dropping, nor would it be a need to really fix....This year could have been similar to last year easily but we cant make shots. Sometimes I wonder if bud just need a ton of 3&D guys over any other need?????

Look at January for example. Hawks defense was good in January but good defense didn't build any leads and even Sap is starting to realize what Bud is saying if he hadn't already been ..."defense hasn’t been terrible. We’ve lost games when our defense has been excellent. At some point, you’ve got to make some shots, especially the ones that counted down the stretch. In the past we didn’t do that. Tonight we were able to finish the game out.” – Paul Millsap on winning with defense against Bulls

 

My off season view on who Buds number one target is, is different now. I think it will be  Batum over Howard personally and probably another 3&D guy that can come off the bench depending on where THJ is by the end of the year.

[JTB]

Also if I may sum up "what I think buds philosophy is" ....offense is his defense similar to GS in my opinion.  And as far as rebounds go I believe bud wants the Hawks to TEAM rebound like the pacers did a few years back  as they lead the league two years in a row and their 7 foot center had similar rebounding numbers to horford. ....that is what bud wants.

Edited February 28, 2016 by JTB

[benhillboy]

5 hours ago, JTB said:

Also if I may sum up "what I think buds philosophy is" ....offense is his defense similar to GS in my opinion.  And as far as rebounds go I believe bud wants the Hawks to TEAM rebound like the pacers did a few years back  as they lead the league two years in a row and their 7 foot center had similar rebounding numbers to horford. ....that is what bud wants.

Teague rebounds awfully, he bears most of the blame on that front.  

Iggy did start off as a 2 guard.  You throw him into the Warrior's guard depth and they all have unusually long arms.  Baze, Thabo (our poor man's Iggy) and  Dennis check out but Jeff, Shelvin, and now Hinrich don't. Kyle can't grab rebounds outside his vicinity.  Holiday was long but that whole being a bum thing was holding him back.  Even in increased playing time Timmy ain't thinking about no rebounds.

[AHF]

Teague, Tim and Korver are all woeful rebounders.

[benhillboy]

On February 24, 2016 at 6:09 PM, DS17Fanboy said:

Thing is Dirk was 9-10 a game rebounder but made a conscious effort to reinvent his game towards the perimeter. Also as he said because he was feeling his bones and didnt want to bang as much. That cant be on Horfords mind right now(and I know it isnt).

And for everyone stepping on the lame 6th all time scoring white shooter..which I'll admit is easy these days

Man he looked like a teutonic demigod back in the day...

 

He's second on both of LeBron's career similarity scores, through 12 years and career shape.  Not too shabby.