AJC Mike Check Michael Cunningham’s ramblings from the world of sports. Of course Hawks need a superstar but they aren’t easy to acquire

[MaceCase]

Just now, JTB said:

I just don't feel like thats a fair argument when nique played against bird and the celtics who were extremely deep! The fact that nique showed up in those games and played just as good if not better than bird he's absolutely a superstar player and no doubt a hall of fame of course....unfortuantely he just didn't have a deeper team.

It's beyond a fair argument especially when I'm simply following the definition that was laid out.  Nique wasn't unique in having to go against elite competition either, every star in this league can make that claim but that opens up another rabbit hole in terms of contextually defining the term "superstar".  if you are 1/30 are you the same as someone who is 1/5?  You can't run into so many of these issues if defining a superstar is "simple". 

[Sothron]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Is DWade?   He's never won a title without another, really better, superstar on the team.

Paul George?

Chris Paul?

Melo?

Harden?

Westbrook?

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

Yes

 

Answered in order of player.

[Sothron]

2 hours ago, MaceCase said:

Thus lies the rabbit hole.  If you are now including "team" into the discussion then that lessens the importance of the "superstar" if his ability to win a title is now tied in to the ability of his teammates.   Beyond that, wouldn't you have to put Nique a tier below all of those other guys given that they were actually the main guy in title rounds whereas he wasn't?

Not in the slightest. Nique was a beast in the regular season and playoffs but had no comparable talent around him. He competed against a HoF laden Celtics, Pistons and later Bulls teams.

My definition is my own and is of course subjective in nature. If I think a player is good enough as the main focus with a good enough team around him to win a title that makes him a superstar. His actual winning a title does not figure into the equation.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Is DWade?   He's never won a title without another, really better, superstar on the team.

Paul George?

Chris Paul?

Melo?

Harden?

Westbrook?

No

yes 

not anymore

hell no

no he's a chucker

yes

[HawkItus]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

Yes

 

Answered in order of player.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Funny how many people say that Chris Paul is a superstar, but Paul George isn't.  George can at least say that he's been to a Game 7 of a Conference Final.   Only Wade and Westbrook can say that.

[MaceCase]

I think the term "superstar" is an overused term due primarily to marketing.  In any given season I believe there are only 2-3 "superstars" in the whole league and it isn't a static group, members go in and out over the course of an era.  The way that term gets thrown around it props up some guys while lessening others.

[macdaddy]

20 hours ago, Sothron said:

Yes

No

Yes

No

No

Yes

 

Answered in order of player.

Your definition of superstar was:

Quote

The definition of superstar should be something simple: do you think this player is good enough to win a title as the main player? If the answer is yes then that player is a superstar.

I'm not seeing how Wade, CP3, and Westbrook fall in the category.   CP3 has repeatedly failed and Wade and Westbrook have been the 2nd best player on their teams (or at least tied for best with Shaq).   All I'm saying is that defining superstar ain't so easy. 

[Guest]

I think it should be defined as Super Duper Star, Super Star, Star, All-Star, Starter, super-sub, bench, scrub and finally bench warmer 

[Sothron]

Wade won his first title as the best player on that Heat team. Shaq was the second fiddle on that team. CP3 has been the best PG in the league for years, he just needed a little more around him. Injuries surely come into play with both him and his Clippers teams. Westbrook is a beast. He's been the best player in OKC since Durant's injury and it isn't even close.

[AHF]

I think it is fair to ask whether the player has been in the conversation for best player in the league.  If he's not been in that conversation during his career, he is clearly not a superstar, IMO.  

When chasing the one true ring you are well served with someone in that best player conversation ala Michael, Timmy, Bird, Shaq, Magic, etc. on your team.  Not too many championships won by teams without an MVP trophy belonging to someone on the roster.  Other than the Pistons, I think you have to go back to the 1970's to see that happen.