State of the Hawks

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

Good question wow...I think it's charted where the bucket was scored but if that's the case, I'd like to disagree with it. It should be where the pass was made because that's the stat we are focusing on, not the scoring (points). 

 

 

There were a lot for Blake from behind the arc so i'm thinking it was where the scorer was but really don't know. 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Stupid question but an assist chart is where the player was when he made the pass?   Or where the scorer was that he passed to?   

Don't taze me bro.  

I agree with you, macd.  It was a stupid question.

Consider yourself tased ....

Seriously though, this is where nimbers go wrong.  It's just too much "analysis".  I bet @AHF and hawksfanatic salivate over sites like that.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I agree with you, macd.  It was a stupid question.

Consider yourself tased ....

Seriously though, this is where nimbers go wrong.  It's just too much "analysis".  I bet @AHF and hawksfanatic salivate over sites like that.

So what's the answer genius?

Meanwhile @kg01 googling it ...

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

So what's the answer genius?

Meanwhile @kg01 googling it ...

@kg01is all 

[Guest]

Lemme know what google tells you, you new age brat! Oh oh look at me, google is great..technology is great...the world is becoming a better place...blah blah blah...Jesus I'm starting to sound like Ted Kaczinsky...:-(

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Spud2Nique said:

So what's the answer genius?

Meanwhile @kg01 googling it ...

 

21 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

@kg01is all 

What the ...?

I'm not getting involved in you old dudes' quibbles about nimbers.  And macd, kg is all ...

Nah, as a matter o' fact ....

[Deleted for explicative]

[Guest]

Google got stumped...:-|

[AHF]

I haven't researched but based on the data being reported seems that it is where the assisted shot was made.  I think that is valuable for this conversation since the data was originally referenced in regards to floor spacing with Griffin.  Where he is making the buckets from is more important than where the pass is coming for purposes of knowing whether Griffin is stretching the defense or clogging the paint.

[Guest]

Sorry, @AHF.  In my defense, @macdaddy made me do it.

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I haven't researched but based on the data being reported seems that it is where the assisted shot was made.  I think that is valuable for this conversation since the data was originally referenced in regards to floor spacing with Griffin.  Where he is making the buckets from is more important than where the pass is coming for purposes of knowing whether Griffin is stretching the defense or clogging the paint.

Thanks.   @AHF comes in the answer!  Meanwhile @kg01

 

[thecampster]

4 hours ago, macdaddy said:

Stupid question but an assist chart is where the player was when he made the pass?   Or where the scorer was that he passed to?   

Don't taze me bro.  

Location of the player passed to who made the shot.

[thecampster]

4 hours ago, AHF said:

I haven't researched but based on the data being reported seems that it is where the assisted shot was made.  I think that is valuable for this conversation since the data was originally referenced in regards to floor spacing with Griffin.  Where he is making the buckets from is more important than where the pass is coming for purposes of knowing whether Griffin is stretching the defense or clogging the paint.

Extremely relevant stat. Griffin gets about 1 more assist per game and what it shows is that Griffin is consistently passing out of the post or passing up contested shots and kicking out to a wing. Many of his assists are to players standing behind the 3 point line.

[macdaddy]

In Saps defense Griffin had some of the best shooters in the game to shoot the ball out to for a 3.   Sap.....not as good options.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

In Saps defense Griffin had some of the best shooters in the game to shoot the ball out to for a 3.   Sap.....not as good options.

I don't care who insisted on deleting my buff pic? Gimme names???

[Guest]

Damn if that wasn't a thread killer I don't know what is....:-|

[thecampster]

5 hours ago, macdaddy said:

In Saps defense Griffin had some of the best shooters in the game to shoot the ball out to for a 3.   Sap.....not as good options.

Well, if you want to get into deep metrics with this we can make some comparisons I've been mentioning the last few months.  http://stats.nba.com/players/touches/#!?sort=TOUCHES&dir=1&Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular Season

Player - Touches per game - Avg Seconds per touch

Chris Paul - 86.2 - 4.99

Dennis - 81.1 - 4.97

Griffin - 80.2 - 2.24

Millsap - 64.9 - 2.01

 

A case could be made that Griffin is trusted more than Millsap as a ball handler. You'll notice that Schröder and Paul have nearly identical numbers of touches and time per touch. But Griffin has over 15 more touches per game than Millsap and holds the ball almost a quarter of a second longer. This could point to greater trust in Griffin as a ball handler.

Now, I could also make the argument (and I do) that what this truly points to is a flaw in Bud's coaching style (or maybe Dennis' age), relying too much on wing players in the offense and not utilizing Millsap (and Howard) efficiently. Bud placed a Chris Paul, Steph Curry level of responsibility on Dennis' shoulders when he really is still developing and 2 + years away from his prime. I really hold back on my criticisms of Dennis because I realize he is still extremely young. 26 years old is really the age you start to truly figure things out in the NBA. Dennis's ceiling is incredibly high.

(Back on topic) Griffin shows more touches per game than Demar DeRozan, Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Al Horford, Rajon Rondo, George Hill, Marc Gasol, Anthony Davis and even Steph Curry and Kyrie Irving. This points to a great deal of trust he is given by Doc Rivers. When you consider that LA was a better team than the Hawks this year (51 wins in a stronger conference vs 43 for Atlanta) and that Griffin was seen as the #2 facilitator on offense, it provides multiple arguments for debate. For example: How much better could he be in the East? Would Bud's system negatively affect his numbers (see Danny Manning)? As an athletic freak, will he age less gracefully than other players (see Josh Smith's decline)? All viable questions. What isn't a viable question is whether or not he is/was a better player than Sap last year and on face value a better investment (see Joe Johnson's immovable contract).

 

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, Spud2Nique said:

Damn if that wasn't a thread killer I don't know what is....:-|

See...thread easily restarted.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, thecampster said:

See...thread easily restarted.

Lol nice.

[macdaddy]

15 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

I don't care who insisted on deleting my buff pic? Gimme names???

Nzinga.   She found it was kind of offensive to just about every group.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

Nzinga.   She found it was kind of offensive to just about every group.

Still jealous?