Let's settle It (Tankers vs non Tankers

[sillent]

A lot of "fans" think we're tanking although our record is 0-0. I'm challenging that although I know we could fall anywhere from 5 - 11 in the playoff spot I think we still make it and am willing to bet a friendly wager. Place your bet vote and between who chooses what we can come up with a friendly bet that us non tankers all can agree to as well as those that think we are tanking can agree to. Place your votes and before the season starts( If any ideas please include) we can come up with something for the winners/losers.

I vote the Hawks making the playoffs again just to clarify where I stand but what are your thoughts. I would love to keep track of who thinks what.  

[Alex]

They will win less than 30 games.  I am not ruling the playoffs out though.  

Edited July 25, 2017 by Alex

[hazer]

I don't think we're "tanking", I think we're "re-tooling" and that by "competitive" Schlenk means "in the hunt for the last playoff spot" late in the season. That being said, I think the Hawks will most likely miss it and land in 11th with 30 wins.

[bird_dirt]

"Can't we all just get along?"

-- R. King

[sillent]

44 minutes ago, Alex said:

They will win less than 30 games.  I am not ruling the playoffs out though.  

I say 38- 41

[sillent]

29 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

"Can't we all just get along?"

-- R. King

Wish that was possible and in the end I think even the "Tankers" will be happy that we're not but trying to save face with their disappointment while also forcing them to give props to those of us that see/know better. Schlenck has played many of us with the liking Dwight thing and a competitive offer for Paul in hopes that we would get over it bringing in players (John Collins/Dedmon) that could fit that mold in hopes that we would forget. He even snagged Dorsey for Tim just in case. I don't think Dorsey will give us everything Tim did/would but all in all I do see a competitive team that can make the playoffs currently in our conference and still having pretty good contracts all around. Most don't see it how I see it which is cool but would love to see a friendly wager.

Edited July 25, 2017 by sillent

[AHF]

1 hour ago, sillent said:

I say 38- 41

Playing less than 82 games is the boldest prediction of all.

 

(Assuming that is the range of wins but that is definitely playoff territory this year.  Probably will get you in).

[hazer]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Playing less than 82 games is the boldest prediction of all.

I think he meant a range of 38 to 41 wins,

[AHF]

Just now, hazer said:

I think he meant a range of 38 to 41 wins,

See above.

[hazer]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

See above.

Do Mods have the ability to edit without it saying "edited"? You edited that didn't ya 

[AHF]

Just now, hazer said:

Do Mods have the ability to edit without it saying "edited"? You edited that didn't ya 

Before you posted but likely processed after you hit quote.

[hazer]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Before you posted but likely processed after you hit quote.

Ahhhhhhhhhh, thought my fired brain was trippin' for a sec there...

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, sillent said:

I say 38- 41

Hazer... would you consider this good?

 

[hazer]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Hazer... would you consider this good?

 

No. I consider a .500 team "average." BUT, I also consider 38-41 wins for this year's Hawks to be too optimistic a projection. He's projecting them as average. I'm projecting them below average. You're projecting them as bad.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, hazer said:

No. I consider a .500 team "average." BUT, I also consider 38-41 wins for this year's Hawks to be too optimistic a projection. He's projecting them as average. I'm projecting them below average. You're projecting them as bad.

Semantics. 

I'm projecting them as a non-playoff team.. how about you?

 

[hazer]

Just now, Diesel said:

Semantics. 

I'm projecting them as a non-playoff team.. how about you?

 

Same, somewhere around 10th-12th in the East.

[Diesel]

Just now, hazer said:

Same, somewhere around 10th-12th in the East.

Welcome to my black and white world.

We can win 42 games as long as we're in the lottery...picking 2nd or 3rd.   You sit and try to put degrees on what the League has already defined.... as if it matters.  Nuance doesn't matter in the NBA.  Either you're in the lottery or you're not.   IF you' are then you get a better shot at better talent in the draft.  When you make moves that you know will land you in the lottery.. you are tanking.   There's no true line of demarcation between a tank and a retool.   I mean.. Didn't San Antonio TANK to get Duncan?  You ponder that a while.  IF you call it a retool then either you're not a student of History or you're just lying to yourself. 

[Peoriabird]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

When you make moves that you know will land you in the lottery.. you are tanking.  

.What moves are you referring to?  trading Howard?  Bud had already move on from the dude during the playoffs,  There was no way Howard was going to be a part of a Bud coached team.

Not resigning Sap?  Too expensive for what he brought back in return long term plus he would limit your flexibility in the future if a more appealing option presented it self.

Not resigning Hardaway?  Please tell me that even you didn't think that any sane GM not living in New York would have paid this much for Hardaway right?

But no, the team isn't tanking!  Just trying to properly evaluate what they really have with their young core and how best to supplement them over the next couple drafts.

Oh by the way..my prediction is 30-35 wins this up coming season.

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

.What moves are you referring to?  trading Howard?  Bud had already move on from the dude during the playoffs,  There was no way Howard was going to be a part of a Bud coached team.

Not resigning Sap?  Too expensive for what he brought back in return long term plus he would limit your flexibility in the future if a more appealing option presented it self.

Not resigning Hardaway?  Please tell me that even you didn't think that any sane GM not living in New York would have paid this much for Hardaway right?

But no, the team isn't tanking!  Just trying to properly evaluate what they really have with their young core and how best to supplement them over the next couple drafts.

Oh by the way..my prediction is 30-35 wins this up coming season.

1. Trading Howard for crap...
2. Buying out Crawford 
3. Trading for Crawford in the first place. 
4. Not getting a return on Millsap.
5. Not making a first offer to THjr.  Not matching THJr. 
6. Signing Moose. 

These are moves that move us out of contention.  Mainly... there is a lack of trying to gather players that can win at each stop.   Schlenk has convince the fanbase here that he's making moves to clear up capspace and give us "Flexibility".   Sorry.. that's an old playbook. Belkin... who wanted to run the team on the cheap....

Quote

In the counterintuitive world of NBA finances, however, the 
Hawks' future is full of promise. "We gave Billy Knight a 
basketball strategy statement on what we hoped to do, and one of 
our main objectives was to have a lot of flexibility," says 
Belkin, chairman of the Boston-based Trans National Group, a 
direct-marketing and investment company. Instead of paying a 
luxury tax on an overpaid, losing team, the new owners will enter 
this summer with two first-round picks and at least $17 million 
in cap space. Now to find players. "The franchise is going to 
have to turn around and start winning before it will be a place 
where people will desire to play," says Abdur-Rahim.

Ferry and Flexibility.

Quote

Though that seems like a lopsided deal at first, the end result is hugely favorable for the Hawks. They shed the massive contract of a 31-year-old player and will have a ton of salary cap flexibility to offer superstars max contracts.

Hinkie and Flexibility.

Quote

The Sixers' trade of Carter-Williams was one of the more controversial moves made at the deadline last spring but it also afforded Hinkie the flexibility to acquire the possibility of a top-five draft choice from the Lakers in the 2016 NBA Draft, in addition to whatever selection the Sixers themselves hold. 

It is hard to argue against the upside of the flexibility the Carter-Williams deal afforded Hinkie and the Sixers. However, Friday's report is the first public rumblings that perhaps Hinkie's philosophies could be grating the decision-makers within the Sixers' organization. 

You find a GM that is "tanking" or retooling or whatever word you choose to use... and you will find:

• They trade Talent for Cheaper development pieces or picks. 
• They tell the fanbase that they want Flexibility to go after Free agents. 

It's the blueprint of a tanking team.  They have to make people believe that they will be competitive because the GMs other job is to sell seats. 

Rich Cho.. the Blueprint. 

 

Quote

Back then, Cho’s job was to reshape another bloated roster that had little flexibility after veteran coach Larry Brown’s roster reshuffling helped get Charlotte into the playoffs for the first time under Jordan’s direction in 2010.

 

Cho’s first season was an on-court disaster as the franchise went a league-worst 7-59 in the lockout-shortened 2011-12 season.

But within two years and after countless personnel moves, Clifford had been hired and Cho’s roster makeover that included free agent All-NBA selection Al Jefferson helped Charlotte make the 2014 NBA playoffs.

The Hornets returned to the playoffs in 2016, even taking a 3-2 first-round playoff series lead over the Miami Heat before losing in the sixth and seventh games.

Charlotte entered last season with high hopes for 2017 but virtually of last offseason’s moves to restock a bench that lost players through free agency seemed to backfire, none more prominently that the injury struggles of former All-Star center Roy Hibbert.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

Welcome to my black and white world.

We can win 42 games as long as we're in the lottery...picking 2nd or 3rd.   You sit and try to put degrees on what the League has already defined.... as if it matters.  Nuance doesn't matter in the NBA.  Either you're in the lottery or you're not.   IF you' are then you get a better shot at better talent in the draft.  When you make moves that you know will land you in the lottery.. you are tanking.   There's no true line of demarcation between a tank and a retool.   I mean.. Didn't San Antonio TANK to get Duncan?  You ponder that a while.  IF you call it a retool then either you're not a student of History or you're just lying to yourself. 

No.  

San Antonio had a series of injuries that took them from the Western Conference elite, to the bottom.   David Robinson got hurt and didn't come back until mid-December, when the Spurs were already terrible.   He plays about 5 - 6 games, then breaks his foot.   Season over for David.   And Sean Elliott only played 1/2 of the season.

Nique was initially acquired by the Spurs to give them extra scoring off the bench.  He ends up having to log major minutes. They had absolutely no intention to tank the 1996 - 97 season.  They had just won 59 games the season before, but came up short . . again . . in the playoffs.

So the Spurs won 59 games in 1996 . . . see their top 2 players go out with injury . . . end up losing 60+ games . . . get the #1 pick ( who just happens to end up being one of the top 5 PFs of all time ) . . . AND they get both of their top 2 players back the following year from injury.

That's not tanking.  That's being blessed.   That's like a track athlete almost losing their leg in a freak car accident, taking 12 months to rehab, then winning the 100m sprint in the Olympics the following year.

 

http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/articles/the-myth-of-the-tanking-spurs