Schlenk states we will take bad contracts for picks

[HawkTalk]

4 minutes ago, KB21 said:

It was a win, and that win may help one of these G-Leaguer's get a chance on another team at some point.

Not talking about for the players. They have a reason to want to do well evotime they step on the court.

Talking about the fans. We should care more that one of these replacement level players shows out for other teams than improving our odds at a good player in the draft?

[marco102]

10 hours ago, KB21 said:

That's because they have been sold a bunch of lies about their "process" and have bought it.  Wake me up when they are actually competing for a championship.

But but but, you said to make the playoffs IS competing for a championship.   Just admit when you're wrong. 

[Royjr9]

59 minutes ago, marco102 said:

But but but, you said to make the playoffs IS competing for a championship.   Just admit when you're wrong. 

That won’t happen but. kB I do recall saying Phoenix’s upside was better than the hawks at the moment. Apparently bud this this as well.

 

[noble]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

But but but, you said to make the playoffs IS competing for a championship.   Just admit when you're wrong. 

He also said that Bud going to Phoenix was a smart move considering they want to win

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 4/12/2018 at 10:43 PM, MaceCase said:

Actually Denver could be in a worse position next year. 

Denver is in the position you stated earlier where they can either exercise their team option letting Jokic become a RFA or let him go into the 2019 free agency as a UFA.  Will Barton is also a UFA. 

The problem is Denver is already over the cap. Unless by some miracle Chandler and/or Arthur opt out or they find a way to dump someone like Faried without giving up any valuable rotation player they'll be faced with going deep into the luxury tax to re-sign any of those players for a team that failed to make the playoffs.  Banking not only on Millsap's health but that he bucks the trend of decline he's displayed over the last two seasons.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that Chandler opts out of his contract.  I could see a scenario in which a team would offer him a 2 yr deal for 20 million.  And with Schlenk's recent comments, that team may very well be the Hawks.  He's not looking to make a splash on the free agent market next season, and will need players to fill out the rest of the roster. 

Overpaying for Chandler for 2 years, while populating the rest of the team with young players on lower level deals, is a sure fire way to construct a team that can lose, but also have mid level contracts that could be used in a trade ( if and when Schlenk decides to pull the trigger on someone ).

Edited April 14, 2018 by TheNorthCydeRises

[MaceCase]

16 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that Chandler opts out of his contract.  I could see a scenario in which a team would offer him a 2 yr deal for 20 million.  And with Schlenk's recent comments, that team may very well be the Hawks.  He's not looking to make a splash on the free agent market next season, and will need players to fill out the rest of the roster. 

Overpaying for Chandler for 2 years, while populating the rest of the team with young players on lower level deals, is a sure fire way to construct a team that can lose, but also have mid level contracts that could be used in a trade ( if and when Schlenk decides to pull the trigger on someone ).

If Chandler is getting 10 mil a year what do you think Barton is getting?  Keep in mind that Barton turned down 10.5 a year already. 

Jokic, if they decide to not play around and let him become a UFA, is getting a max deal.  If Chandler opts out and Barton leaves then Jokic's extension alone will still take them to just shy of the tax with only 11 roster spots.  However they are down two key rotation players lost for nothing.  The best case scenario is a healthy Sap can offset the loss of their production, that however leaves Denver in a net neutral position in the standings, not competing for a 4 seed. 

All while being more expensive.  

Tell me where you've heard that story before?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, MaceCase said:

If Chandler is getting 10 mil a year what do you think Barton is getting?  Keep in mind that Barton turned down 10.5 a year already. 

Jokic, if they decide to not play around and let him become a UFA, is getting a max deal.  If Chandler opts out and Barton leaves then Jokic's extension alone will still take them to just shy of the tax with only 11 roster spots.  However they are down two key rotation players lost for nothing.  The best case scenario is a healthy Sap can offset the loss of their production, that however leaves Denver in a net neutral position in the standings, not competing for a 4 seed. 

All while being more expensive.  

Tell me where you've heard that story before?

I don't know about the net neutral position in the standings.  Jokic is turning into a monster of a player, and has a good shot to at least be 3rd team All-NBA this season.  If Millsap gets back close to his normal self, Denver becomes a very dangerous team next season.

As for their cap situation, they like . . err, love what they have.   5 years out of the playoffs, I could see Denver re-signing a guy like Barton ( unless he gets some insane deal from another team ).  Jokic's contract is a straight up dream right now, and they don't have to worry about him until the 2019 offseason.  He's getting the max as soon as they can sign him next summer.   So if they can find a taker for Plumlee or Faried, that's gold for them.

Denver is more than OK, especially if Sap plays like Sap.  Barton is really the only guy they have to worry about this offseason.

[MaceCase]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I don't know about the net neutral position in the standings.  Jokic is turning into a monster of a player, and has a good shot to at least be 3rd team All-NBA this season.  If Millsap gets back close to his normal self, Denver becomes a very dangerous team next season.

As for their cap situation, they like . . err, love what they have.   5 years out of the playoffs, I could see Denver re-signing a guy like Barton ( unless he gets some insane deal from another team ).  Jokic's contract is a straight up dream right now, and they don't have to worry about him until the 2019 offseason.  He's getting the max as soon as they can sign him next summer.   So if they can find a taker for Plumlee or Faried, that's gold for them.

Denver is more than OK, especially if Sap plays like Sap.  Barton is really the only guy they have to worry about this offseason.

You're not paying attention to anything that I'm saying.  Jokic becomes an unrestricted free agent next summer.  He can be a restricted free agent this summer.  There's inherent risk in letting him hit the UFA market, you yourself mentioned this when you were talking about Booker. 

Most players and especially their agents want the money and security now rather than later, failing to do so kind of puts them in a certain mindset of how much they are valued by their team.  Even without that there's still the great possibility of just being wooed by another situation.

You're banking on too many factors: Sap both staying healthy and returning to form he's 2 seasons removed from, Barton being re-signed on a reasonable deal, Denver being able to easily dump large contracts, Denver being beyond confident to both retain Jokic as a UFA, and pay more to make the playoffs, and Jokic being satisfied with carrying his team... I hope this paragraph demonstrates that there's some uncertainty with their situation. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

You're not paying attention to anything that I'm saying.  Jokic becomes an unrestricted free agent next summer.  He can be a restricted free agent this summer.  There's inherent risk in letting him hit the UFA market, you yourself mentioned this when you were talking about Booker. 

Most players and especially their agents want the money and security now rather than later, failing to do so kind of puts them in a certain mindset of how much they are valued by their team.  Even without that there's still the great possibility of just being wooed by another situation.

You're banking on too many factors: Sap both staying healthy and returning to form he's 2 seasons removed from, Barton being re-signed on a reasonable deal, Denver being able to easily dump large contracts, Denver being beyond confident to both retain Jokic as a UFA, and pay more to make the playoffs, and Jokic being satisfied with carrying his team... I hope this paragraph demonstrates that there's some uncertainty with their situation. 

So if you were Denver, what would you do?

You're on the cusp of making the playoffs, if you keep the team together.   Do you break key pieces of the team up just to keep from being capped out, or paying a little of the Luxury Tax?  What would you do?   

Here's what I would do

• Have a sit down with Jokic, and tell him to be patient and wait one more year to get his 5 year MAX contract, so that we can lock up key pieces to be around him for the next 2 - 4 years to insure that the Nuggets are a perennial playoff team.  If he doesn't want to be patient, go ahead and lock him up to a 4 year extension at the MAX.
• Sign Barton 4 years - 48 million ( player option after Year 3 )
• See if there are any takers for Faried on an expiring deal, in return for a 2nd round pick
• If Chandler doesn't opt out, trade him for smaller contracts that can be moved more easily for cash or 2nd round picks
• If you are in the Luxury Tax for the 2018 - 19 season . . . PAY IT.  The fans deserve to root for a playoff level team after 5 years of nothing.

[davis171]

Lol so why would Jokic then stay if some team like the Celtics call him up to replace Horford that'll be tough negotiating when we have seen people take less to compete for a championship. If I'm the Nuggets you gotta lock him up while he is a RFA if he leaves you just lost the best player you have had since Melo. The Nuggets owner is cheap he isn't going to bring Barton back it's pretty well known around the league. He also said he will only sign with teams that will start him.

Edited April 14, 2018 by davis171

[MaceCase]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So if you were Denver, what would you do?

You're on the cusp of making the playoffs, if you keep the team together.   Do you break key pieces of the team up just to keep from being capped out, or paying a little of the Luxury Tax?  What would you do?   

Here's what I would do

• Have a sit down with Jokic, and tell him to be patient and wait one more year to get his 5 year MAX contract, so that we can lock up key pieces to be around him for the next 2 - 4 years to insure that the Nuggets are a perennial playoff team.  If he doesn't want to be patient, go ahead and lock him up to a 4 year extension at the MAX.
• Sign Barton 4 years - 48 million ( player option after Year 3 )
• See if there are any takers for Faried on an expiring deal, in return for a 2nd round pick
• If Chandler doesn't opt out, trade him for smaller contracts that can be moved more easily for cash or 2nd round picks
• If you are in the Luxury Tax for the 2018 - 19 season . . . PAY IT.  The fans deserve to root for a playoff level team after 5 years of nothing.

If I was Denver I'd worry more about locking up my star long-term than trying to get cute thinking that the 9th seed will turn into a 4th seed. 

Making the playoffs for one season at the expense of a star isn't a worthy investment.  Paying tens of millions in tax thinking you're going to have a dramatically different result isn't a worthy investment.  Giving away cheap assets to facilitate a playoff appearance isn't a worthy investment. 

All of these moves are revolving around an investment that already blew up in Denver's face.  An investment that they are unlikely to even retain, especially at that price, past the upcoming season. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

27 minutes ago, davis171 said:

Lol so why would Jokic then stay if some team like the Celtics call him up to replace Horford that'll be tough negotiating when we have seen people take less to compete for a championship. If I'm the Nuggets you gotta lock him up while he is a RFA if he leaves you just lost the best player you have had since Melo. The Nuggets owner is cheap he isn't going to bring Barton back it's pretty well known around the league. He also said he will only sign with teams that will start him.

Who can offer Jokic more money next summer?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

15 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

If I was Denver I'd worry more about locking up my star long-term than trying to get cute thinking that the 9th seed will turn into a 4th seed. 

Making the playoffs for one season at the expense of a star isn't a worthy investment.  Paying tens of millions in tax thinking you're going to have a dramatically different result isn't a worthy investment.  Giving away cheap assets to facilitate a playoff appearance isn't a worthy investment. 

All of these moves are revolving around an investment that already blew up in Denver's face.  An investment that they are unlikely to even retain, especially at that price, past the upcoming season. 

So, once again, give an outline of what you would do.

[MaceCase]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

So, once again, give an outline of what you would do.

Is this your typical fallback whenever your wishy washy logic gets picked apart?

I already gave an "outline" of what exactly I would do:  Re-sign Jokic A. S. A. P.

Nothing else matters.  Let Barton walk.  Stretch Chandler/Arthur/Faried whomever to fit Jokic's deal under the tax.  Draft a replacement wing at #14. 

Jokic alone should keep the Nuggets around the 8th seed which is a far cry from "challenging for the 4th seed".  Next year decline Millsap's option, extend Murray, use the cap to pursue a complimentary star and/or depth, someone like Klay Thompson or more likely Tobias Harris.  It's about being competitive for a while, not trying to get one token berth.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

26 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Is this your typical fallback whenever your wishy washy logic gets picked apart?

I already gave an "outline" of what exactly I would do:  Re-sign Jokic A. S. A. P.

Nothing else matters.  Let Barton walk.  Stretch Chandler/Arthur/Faried whomever to fit Jokic's deal under the tax.  Draft a replacement wing at #14. 

Jokic alone should keep the Nuggets around the 8th seed which is a far cry from "challenging for the 4th seed".  Next year decline Millsap's option, extend Murray, use the cap to pursue a complimentary star and/or depth, someone like Klay Thompson or more likely Tobias Harris.  It's about being competitive for a while, not trying to get one token berth.

My argument hasn't fallen apart at all.  It's just an option.  You do have a tendency to try to pick apart other's opinion, while tossing insults along the way, without saying what you'd actually do.

Your plan:

• sign Jokic now
• let Barton walk
• Stretch the "limbo 3"
• draft a replacement wing at #14 ( Lonnie Walker / Miles Bridges / Zhaire Smith )
• decline Millsap in 2019
• sign a significant free agent 

Nothing wrong with that plan.  Losing a cog like Barton may cause them to miss the playoffs next year, without a viable replacement

They'll be able to get Chandler and possibly Faried off of their books, if they're willing to give us some draft capital in the coming years ( which a guy like Schlenk is banking on ).

Edited April 14, 2018 by TheNorthCydeRises

[davis171]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Who can offer Jokic more money next summer?

nobody but we have seen FA demand out due to teams trying to be cheap. We have also seen players get injured which make you wonder why Jokic who you said could be all NBA 3rd team would wait to get his money.

[MaceCase]

51 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

My argument hasn't fallen apart at all.  It's just an option.  You do have a tendency to try to pick apart other's opinion, while tossing insults along the way, without saying what you'd actually do.

 

No, I just like to spend the same amount of time educating others about the situations surrounding other teams as they do nitpicking and doom and glooming the Hawks.  What "I'd do" has zero bearing on anything, what I presented was the current scenario and not just the best case pie in the sky scenario.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, davis171 said:

nobody but we have seen FA demand out due to teams trying to be cheap. We have also seen players get injured which make you wonder why Jokic who you said could be all NBA 3rd team would wait to get his money.

Do the Nuggets hold his Bird Rights if he becomes an unrestricted free agent?

[davis171]

16 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Do the Nuggets hold his Bird Rights if he becomes an unrestricted free agent?

Yes but why wait to make the money you want to be younger when you sign your second contract so Jokic has every incentive to get the money now unless he wants out.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 minutes ago, davis171 said:

Yes but why wait to make the money you want to be younger when you sign your second contract so Jokic has every incentive to get the money now unless he wants out.

Can every team offer Jokic a 5 year max deal, or just the Nuggets?