Hawksquawk is back up, Welcome to the Bagley Zone

[EazyRoc]

7 minutes ago, davis171 said:

I never made the comparison I said a lite version who is a similar athlete you are just saying Harden is a significantly better athlete because he is black

 

See I’m just gunna have to disagree with you and we will see who is right in 10 years.

I know the first paragraph wasn’t directed towards me, but cmon man that’s bogus as hell. I’m going to ask you like I asked a few other folks. Go back and watch the tape in the context of looking for him to beat people of the dribble. It’s not about black or white. The guy just has lead feet. He’s got very good body control and good handles, so he’ll still get buckets. But he’s closer to late-Hawk (240 lb) Joe than he is James Harden. He will live and die by his jumper. If that’s not falling, he won’t have much else unless he develops a post game. Please, just watch the tape in this new context.

[EazyRoc]

9 hours ago, davis171 said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-_3IP_2YPY

 

This tape is a perfect example of what I’ve been saying. Not saying he will be terrible, but I truly think his ceiling is All star reserve and his floor is very good 6th man.

[High5]

2 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

Quickness and explosiveness don’t really improve. He can improve his handle though and NBA spacing will help. His inability to beat the man in front of him head up will severely limit his effectiveness offensively in the NBA.

Quickness and explosiveness definitely improve with training. He's 19 and he doesn't have the best habits from what I've read. He has a ton of room to transform his body with NBA trainers. 

[hazer]

It’s simple really. If Ayton is available with the 3rd pick, snatch him up. If Doncic is available there, grab him. If Bagley is available there, pick him. Bodda-bing thank you ma’am tah-dah over and out.

[hazer]

Then if you want to bundle picks/players to get another top 10 pick, do so and snag either Bamba, Young, Sexton, Porter, or JJJ. 

[Jungle Jack]

2 minutes ago, hazer said:

It’s simple really. If Ayton is available with the 3rd pick, snatch him up. If Doncic is available there, grab him. If Bagley is available there, pick him. Bodda-bing thank you ma’am tah-dah over and out.

That makes sense to me.  Unfortunately, Doncic has an unbelievable amount of leverage over where he wants to go regardless.  Even if we had the first, I am not positive he would come and certainly could still make a fortune in Europe and be only 20 when...

[EazyRoc]

13 minutes ago, High5 said:

Quickness and explosiveness definitely improve with training. He's 19 and he doesn't have the best habits from what I've read. He has a ton of room to transform his body with NBA trainers. 

I’ve never heard of anybody making meaningful strides in quickness and explosiveness with training. Do you have any examples ?

Also, the fact that he’s been a pro for 3 years and doesn’t take care of his body should be another minor red flag.

[Flight]

13 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Well he's not 6'11. He's probably 6'9 at most. Listed heights are always wrong. Sometimes absurdly wrong. There have been players who have been literally 3, even 4 inches shorter than listed height. It's really annoying. All players should be required to get an exact measurement by a third party, and have that used as their official height. Why are they allowed to out right lie about heights?

He's definitely over 6'9. Wendell Carter measured at 6'10 with shoes. You can simply see them next to each other and obviously tell he's just as tall if not taller than Wendell.

[JTB]

27 minutes ago, Flight said:

He's definitely over 6'9. Wendell Carter measured at 6'10 with shoes. You can simply see them next to each other and obviously tell he's just as tall if not taller than Wendell.

I read that Bagley was measured at 6’9 when he was 16 at a TEAM USA Camp or something like that. So I believe that he’s probably very close if not 6’11.

what I want to know is, is his wingspan avg or above avg?

[Flight]

Just now, JTB said:

I read that Bagley was measured at 6’9 when he was 16 at a TEAM USA Camp or something like that. So I believe that he’s probably very close if not 6’11.

what I want to know is, is his wingspan avg or above avg?

His wingspan is probably right at average. Doesn't seem like he has crazy reach or anything 

[davis171]

2 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

This tape is a perfect example of what I’ve been saying. Not saying he will be terrible, but I truly think his ceiling is All star reserve and his floor is very good 6th man.

He drives right past and finishes over 2 nba players 1 that is seen as a future star the other played valuable minutes for a Western conference playoff team he has plenty of athleticism is my only point imo.

[High5]

36 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

I’ve never heard of anybody making meaningful strides in quickness and explosiveness with training. Do you have any examples ?

Also, the fact that he’s been a pro for 3 years and doesn’t take care of his body should be another minor red flag.

Go to any gym in the world and you'll see people doing a variety of exercises that increase both. It's quite common. And you can look up a ton of examples of players who greatly increased their overall level of fitness from being a teenager in college to an adult in the NBA. He's not going to become LeBron or anything remotely close, but if he puts in the work he'll improve his physical attributes across the board. 

Whether or not he puts in that work is another matter. Like I said, I have my concerns and that is one of them. 

[EazyRoc]

16 minutes ago, High5 said:

Go to any gym in the world and you'll see people doing a variety of exercises that increase both. It's quite common. And you can look up a ton of examples of players who greatly increased their overall level of fitness from being a teenager in college to an adult in the NBA. He's not going to become LeBron or anything remotely close, but if he puts in the work he'll improve his physical attributes across the board. 

Whether or not he puts in that work is another matter. Like I said, I have my concerns and that is one of them. 

I’m asking for specific NBA players. Do you know of any ? Because I have never heard of it.

[EazyRoc]

56 minutes ago, davis171 said:

He drives right past and finishes over 2 nba players 1 that is seen as a future star the other played valuable minutes for a Western conference playoff team he has plenty of athleticism is my only point imo.

Eh ? Time stamps please ? I missed that completely.

[Buzzard]

Clippers rumored to be looking to trade up so they can take Porter Jr. They also have their eyes on Mikal, Jackson, and Young if they cannot move up to take Porter. Knicks are rumored to be possible trade partners as everyone of those players is expected to be gone by 12 and 13 when the Clippers pick.

If the Clippers and Jerry West are sold on Porter; that has to give some credence to him being worthy of our 3rd pick. The two SF's, Porter and Makal, are said to be their primary targets. Two picks to move up only three spots to 9 is pretty steep but the Knicks also are high on the Villanova star SF; and he won't be there at 12 or 13.

[EazyRoc]

10 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

Eh ? Time stamps please ? I missed that completely.

I just re-watched and he barely be 7’2” Porzingas off the dribble. He’s not getting that off against the 2/3s in the NBA. Unless this kid is just flabby at the moment and can cut about 15 lbs or so to gain some quickness, dude is going to look a lot like Joe Johnson. Not the one that came fresh from Phoenix. The one that use to settle for tough jumpers because he gained a ton of weight and couldn’t beat people off the dribble like he used to.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, EazyRoc said:

Quickness and explosiveness don’t really improve. He can improve his handle though and NBA spacing will help. His inability to beat the man in front of him head up will severely limit his effectiveness offensively in the NBA.

That's not true. That's all I'm adding to this debate. He's 19. His body needs work.

 

[High5]

12 minutes ago, EazyRoc said:

I’m asking for specific NBA players. Do you know of any ? Because I have never heard of it.

I'm not an expert, but I would guess that literally any player that has taken their training seriously has increased their explosiveness. That's like asking for specific examples of players who became stronger. Pick a name at random from a roster and the odds are in your favor. Seriously, there are so many exercises and drills designed to become more explosive. It's not rare. I would say quickness depends more on your starting point and your goals, but Doncic definitely has room to improve basic fitness and again there are countless exercises and drills that will help.

Maybe you think I'm talking about Doncic starting to blow by defenders like he's Schröder or throwing down dunks like he's Collins. Obviously not, but when you make gradual improvements across the board it can create a large overall impact. 

[EazyRoc]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That's not true. That's all I'm adding to this debate. He's 19. His body needs work.

 

Please give me an example. That’s all I want. I have never heard of anyone making significant strides in either unless they were already in bad shape. If you’re constantly in bad shape after 3 years of pro ball BEFORE you get that “grown man” weight, he’s going to be in trouble.

[EazyRoc]

4 minutes ago, High5 said:

I'm not an expert, but I would guess that literally any player that has taken their training seriously has increased their explosiveness. That's like asking for specific examples of players who became stronger. Pick a name at random from a roster and the odds are in your favor. Seriously, there are so many exercises and drills designed to become more explosive. It's not rare. I would say quickness depends more on your starting point and your goals, but Doncic definitely has room to improve basic fitness and again there are countless exercises and drills that will help.

Maybe you think I'm talking about Doncic starting to blow by defenders like he's Schröder or throwing down dunks like he's Collins. Obviously not, but when you make gradual improvements across the board it can create a large overall impact. 

I mean you can make the case of a lot of players getting meaningfully stronger over the course of their careers (Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, Chris Bosh, LeBron James, etc) Quickness, speed, vertical can be improved from a measurement standpoint sure. However, who has really made meaningful strides and overcame what was seen as a weakness ? I’m really and truly drawing blanks. I can’t think of someone seriously.