Supes v. KB, Nope! Just some JJJ v. Marvin Bagley talk

[NBASupes]

Look at this poss: Jackson blocks Bagley's shot and runs down to court, gets the ball, takes two solid dribbles to the top of the key, weakly passes the ball, and realizes Carter is playing off of him as the scouting report is that JJJ only move is his spin move and JJJ uncoordinately falls tripping over his own feet. I seen this time and time again in Jackson's game tape. It's really his only move unless you run at him when he's open at the top of the key. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

Never use Brandon Jennings and Steph Curry in the same sentence again. lol

I used it to show that someone can be better at something and be world's apart from being effective at it. 

[NBASupes]

Bagley isn't the most versatile ball handler. He just good at body control and has a great feel for the basket when attacking. He doesn't have a large array of crossovers. 

JJJ can what we call, dribble in a box. He also can attacking skinny. He doesn't have a large amount of crossovers but he has a larger number than the average PF in the NBA or NCAA's especially at 6'10 or taller. 

JJJ effectiveness using it is a completely different story. That's where body control, coordination and feel for the defense plays a massive role. 

[terrell]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Look at this poss: Jackson blocks Bagley's shot and runs down to court, gets the ball, takes two solid dribbles to the top of the key, weakly passes the ball, and realizes Carter is playing off of him as the scouting report is that JJJ only move is his spin move and JJJ uncoordinately falls tripping over his own feet. I seen this time and time again in Jackson's game tape. It's really his only move unless you run at him when he's open at the top of the key. 

 

 

I used it to show that someone can be better at something and be world's apart from being effective at it. 

That actually looked like Marvin. The falling on the court part. lol

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bagley isn't the most versatile ball handler. He just good at body control and has a great feel for the basket when attacking. He doesn't have a large array of crossovers. 

JJJ can what we call, dribble in a box. He also can attacking skinny. He doesn't have a large amount of crossovers but he has a larger number than the average PF in the NBA or NCAA's especially at 6'10 or taller. 

JJJ effectiveness using it is a completely different story. That's where body control, coordination and feel for the defense plays a massive role. 

This all points to core strength and balance imo. Being able to account for every ounce of muscle on your body vs just having muscle...not that jjj has muscles or anything ..just pointing out his coordination issues and issues with balance as it clearly shows in his video breakdown.

[nathan2331]

 

 

I only ignore numbers that don't mean anything, like PPG, RPG, and other counting stats.  BPM is the most translatable advanced analytic.  PER rewards players for offense and doesn't take into account defensive impact.  Win Shares is a volume dependent stat.  

An example.  The top 5 all time in BPM among college freshman are Anthony Davis, Karl Anthony Towns, Jaren Jackson Jr, Joel Embiid, and Nerlens Noel.  Noel is the only outlier in this group.  Outside of Jaren Jackson Jr, all were taken in the top 6 picks, and only Noel wasn't taken in the top 3.

 

 

You do realize that BPM doesn't take playing time, or fouling into consideration. Two of the biggest question marks over JJJ's head. DBPM basically a combination of rate stats, basically telling us that JJJ blocked a lot of shots (steals are also heavily factored).

 

JJJ had a block percentage of 14.3% which would put him #17 of all players since 2009. Unfortunately, every single player besides David Foster played more minutes than JJJ, so it's not a sustainable level of basketball. And that's not mentioning the foul trouble that consistently kept him off the court. He's not a defensive savant, if when stops fouling so much he will likely block less shots which will reduce his defensive impact. He'll still be a great defender imagine, but you greatly overstate DBPM.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

This all points to core strength and balance imo. Being able to account for every ounce of muscle on your body vs just having muscle...not that jjj has muscles or anything ..just pointing out his coordination issues and issues with balance as it clearly shows in his video breakdown.

OH, look.  More made up bullshit.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

That actually looked like Marvin. The falling on the court part. lol

With JJJ, you really have to the watch the full games. Every single possession. You start to notice, he is most effective v. soft defense. Guys who don't get physical. When he plays v. physical teams, he gets flustered. He shows uncoordination through every game. It's usually in his passes the most. He said it best, he said, I saw it and I have vision but it just didn't happen and I agree. 

 

His defense really is advanced. I don't want to underrate it even though I think KB tends to overrate it. He's not this elite defender. He's an advanced defender. I don't have an issue playing him day one as a rookie. But I know one thing, he will be in foul trouble often or he will get exposed on due to his strength. I do believe he's more advanced than Bamba on defense at this stage. He has a better idea of how to use his frame and length as well than Bamba or Bagley. He does a lot of good things on defense. I just see a lot of flaws that his supporters seem to consistently leave out. That's what I issues with. 

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

OH, look.  More made up bullshit.

Of course, it's bullshit because KB doesn't agree. 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, NBASupes said:

With JJJ, you really have to the watch the full games. Every single possession. You start to notice, he is most effective v. soft defense. Guys who don't get physical. When he plays v. physical teams, he gets flustered. He shows uncoordination through every game. It's usually in his passes the most. He said it best, he said, I saw it and I have vision but it just didn't happen and I agree. 

 

His defense really is advanced. I don't want to underrate it even though I think KB tends to overrate it. He's not this elite defender. He's an advanced defender. I don't have an issue playing him day one as a rookie. But I know one thing, he will be in foul trouble often or he will get exposed on due to his strength. I do believe he's more advanced than Bamba on defense at this stage. He has a better idea of how to use his frame and length as well than Bamba or Bagley. He does a lot of good things on defense. I just see a lot of flaws that his supporters seem to consistently leave out. That's what I issues with. 

So basically the street term is jjj likes gettin punked. Lol. 

[NBASupes]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

So basically the street term is jjj likes gettin punked. Lol. 

yeah, he's chicken shit soft. 

[NBASupes]

Another thing, watching him defend, I don't get undiscipline as you may read. That's Bamba and Bagley more than anything. With JJJ, he's usually imbalanced. That see that often on his fouls. That's why I always say he's Marvining it up. Marvin used to do that with the Hawks. 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, NBASupes said:

yeah, he's chicken shit soft. 

Ya this is eerily Marv. Can we share this info with Schlenk? I’m sure he’s been reminded of Marv. 

 

Ps I have 2 Marv jerseys bought in 2005.. oops... a red road and an alternate yellow..ugh. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

yeah, he's chicken shit soft. 

That is overstating it for his freshman year but for projection purposes this is where you wonder how he will compare at age 21 versus today.  It's an unknown for me but he has plenty of room to put on some weight and muscle and improve in that regard.

[AHF]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I agree. While Bagley will and should score, efficiency is the critical part for him to learn. 

He won't have the same physical edge in the NBA that he did in college so it will be interesting to see.

[NBASupes]

Just now, AHF said:

That is overstating it for his freshman year but for projection purposes this is where you wonder how he will compare at age 21 versus today.  It's an unknown for me but he has plenty of room to put on some weight and muscle and improve in that regard.

I don't think it's a weight issue. A lot of his issues aren't really weight issues. It's usually core, coordination, and body balance. That's extremely hard to change. That's like making Calderon fast or lateral quick. Some of these things are things you have since birth. As an uncoordinated hooper, I had that issue as well. I sadly, even as I gained weight and got stronger, I still looked uncoordinated. I trained like crazy and it didn't change. 

[AHF]

Just now, NBASupes said:

I don't think it's a weight issue. A lot of his issues aren't really weight issues. It's usually core, coordination, and body balance. That's extremely hard to change. That's like making Calderon fast or lateral quick. Some of these things are things you have since birth. As an uncoordinated hooper, I had that issue as well. I sadly, even as I gained weight and got stronger, I still looked uncoordinated. I trained like crazy and it didn't change. 

Him being "soft" or not is a mental issue more than anything physical.  

[Dragitoff]

I thought there was a separate thread for the JJJ vs. Bagley debate?  

If anyone needs me, I'll be over there in the corner stirring the pot.  lol

[Spud2nique]

Agree with both supes and AHF. It’s a physical issue that he won’t be able to improve too much like Marv..he can improve other aspects but prolly not the way his body is build and to AHF’s point..softness is mental like rebounding is effort. Agree with both.

1 minute ago, Dragitoff said:

I thought there was a separate thread for the JJJ vs. Bagley debate?  

If anyone needs me, I'll be over there in the corner stirring the pot.  lol

Can I ride? Lol

[Spud2nique]

How I feel about drafting jjj..

He not for us! I truly believe this.

 

[terrell]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

yeah, he's chicken shit soft. 

All players with a push shot like his were usually 'soft" back in the day. Just sayin. Even though I dont hate him as much as you do. lol. I just dont see future superstar when I watch him. And thats what I hope we get this year..

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Agree with both supes and AHF. It’s a physical issue that he won’t be able to improve too much like Marv..he can improve other aspects but prolly not the way his body is build and to AHF’s point..softness is mental like rebounding is effort. Agree with both.

Can I ride? Lol

I'm actually not on board with labeling him soft or uncoordinated.  Neither of those are the concerns for me with him.  Was just saying that being uncoordinated is different from being soft.  The first is a physical issue and the second is a mental one.