Supes v. KB, Nope! Just some JJJ v. Marvin Bagley talk

[Flight]

MOD INSERT

Supes opened up this thread for extensive discussion of Bagley v JJJ.  He asked that I bring in recent posts and I went back for posts in the last 5 hours and dropped them in which now appear before his opening post.  So added this intro to the first post dropped in.  Now have fun with this ACC/Big10 Battle.

5 hours ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.  It’s amazing how his BPM, a better indicator of your actual impact on the game, is markedly higher than the hyped up Bagley.  

It's also amazing how actually watching him play is an even better indicator of his actual impact on the game. His foul trouble got the best of him majority of the time. I mean, if we're being honest JJJ only had 2 big games this year. Besides that he was just a solid role player that helped the team in spurts.

[Dragitoff]

Oh Lord.  The JJJ vs. Bagley debate has started again.  Wake me up in 43 pages.  

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, Flight said:

It's also amazing how actually watching him play is an even better indicator of his actual impact on the game. His foul trouble got the best of him majority of the time. I mean, if we're being honest JJJ only had 2 big games this year. Besides that he was just a solid role player that helped the team in spurts.

My eyes saw the best freshman player in the entire country when watching him and his two way ability.

Its not his fault that ESPN would rather push PPG than actual impact.   

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, Dragitoff said:

Oh Lord.  The JJJ vs. Bagley debate has started again.  Wake me up in 43 pages.  

Well, I’m not going to stop saying that Jackson is a better player and will have more impact on winning in the NBA.   It’s really not even that close.  I have JJJ rated markedly higher than Bagley, but I’m not swayed by ESPN hype.  

[KB21]

12 minutes ago, GThawks3 said:

Bagley has been hyped since he was 13 (not by ESPN). He then  dominated HS since his freshman year, dominated AAU and then dominated his freshman year at Duke. But let’s not take that into account right? People only think he’s good because ESPN says so. 

He didn’t dominate as a freshman though, and his AAU teams never won.  He’s an empty numbers guy.  He scores points which excites you but contributes very little overall to winning games.  

[GThawks3]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

He didn’t dominate as a freshman though, and his AAU teams never won.  He’s an empty numbers guy.  He scores points which excites you but contributes very little overall to winning games.  

21 and 11 for an 18 year old is dominant. And just like Tatum at Duke last year his defense isn’t as bad as you say. 

[DBac]

Tatum blocked more shots than Bagley in college lol.

[Flight]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

My eyes saw the best freshman player in the entire country when watching him and his two way ability.

Its not his fault that ESPN would rather push PPG than actual impact.   

My eyes barely saw him as the best player on his own team and virtually a no show in the biggest tournaments of the year....

[KB21]

Just now, Flight said:

My eyes barely saw him as the best player on his own team and virtually a no show in the biggest tournaments of the year....

Yep.  The Big 10 Defensive POY and Freshman of the year had no impact. ? 

[Flight]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Yep.  The Big 10 Defensive POY and Freshman of the year had no impact. ? 

Who said he had no impact?

I said he was virtually a no show in the biggest tournaments of the year. He wasn't the best or most important player on his team in college. That's just being honest. 

[Flight]

3 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

I would love for us to grab pick 14 from Denver and grab Smith

Bridges was the team's best player but JJJ did a very solid job there 

I've never said JJJ is a bad player by any means, I'm fully aware of what he can do for a team but I'm not hyping him up when he hasn't done enough to earn it.

[capstone21]

3 minutes ago, Flight said:

I've never said JJJ is a bad player by any means, I'm fully aware of what he can do for a team but I'm not hyping him up when he hasn't done enough to earn it.

I think he will have a very good NBA career but he will be a solid role player who contributes ... I don't see him as that impact player 

[KB21]

5 minutes ago, Flight said:

I've never said JJJ is a bad player by any means, I'm fully aware of what he can do for a team but I'm not hyping him up when he hasn't done enough to earn it.

Highest BPM among all true freshmen this year and third highest freshman BPM since they have been calculating the stat.  That is earning it.  

[Flight]

Just now, capstone21 said:

I think he will have a very good NBA career but he will be a solid role player who contributes ... I don't see him as that impact player 

Like I've said before, he's a Serge Ibaka-lite right now. He'll be able to contribute to your team but you'd have to pair him with players that can light it up. We're in a league that requires a lot of scoring to get consistent wins.

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

I think he will have a very good NBA career but he will be a solid role player who contributes ... I don't see him as that impact player 

So, you are saying that a potential DPOY will not be an impact player?   

[Flight]

Just now, KB21 said:

Highest BPM among all true freshmen this year and third highest freshman BPM since they have been calculating the stat.  That is earning it.  

You're overstating the importance of BPM. If it mattered that much why would JJJ not make any All-American teams when Ayton, Bagley and Trae all did? He just doesn't have the production. He had two big games, other than that he's solid in his role, it is what it is.

[capstone21]

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

So, you are saying that a potential DPOY will not be an impact player?   

I think he has the chance to be a really good player but I don't see star or real impact player no.  He does have solid defensive instincts ... will be interesting to see if it translate into the NBA

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yep.  The Big 10 Defensive POY and Freshman of the year had no impact. ? 

He's a solid player and a very good prospect. But this defensive stallworth just isn't true. Just was a good defender. Highly projectable but he was weak in the post on both sides of the court. He has good defensive fundamentals but his lack of coordination and body control puts him in the most damning positions. He's going to take time and when he gets there, I don't think he will he a superstar or a star. That said, I can see him having a longer and solid career.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Flight said:

You're overstating the importance of BPM. If it mattered that much why would JJJ not make any All-American teams when Ayton, Bagley and Trae all did? He just doesn't have the production. He had two big games, other than that he's solid in his role, it is what it is.

Look at Zach Collins, hes a lesser version of JJJ who kept improving and look at his rookie numbers 

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/zach-collins-1.html

[NBASupes]

JJJ range is Zach Collins, Marvin Williams, and Theo Ratliff