Supes v. KB, Nope! Just some JJJ v. Marvin Bagley talk

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Highest BPM among all true freshmen this year and third highest freshman BPM since they have been calculating the stat.  That is earning it.  

Zach Collins had the highest last year. Tatum was superior to him.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/zach-collins-1.html

[NBASupes]

KB, you still never own up to the fact that JJJ in full games Marvining it up and start running to cut up clips. 

[NBASupes]

I keep saying, Marvin Williams had great cut clips. Watch the full games. There is a reason he only played 21 mpg

[NBASupes]

When Marvin Bagley is having a rookie of the year campaign and JJJ is struggling to impact the game as a rookie. Don't say I didnt tell you so and every single day, I will remind you

[KB21]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

KB, you still never own up to the fact that JJJ in full games Marvining it up and start running to cut up clips. 

That's because it's not true.  It's a complete lie.  You don't dominate the way JJJ does on defense and be uncoordinated.  Not only is he a dominant defender, but he's also the youngest player in the draft class.  He's almost a full 6 months younger than Marvin Bagley, and he's 16 months younger than Mohamed Bamba.  

JJJ not only protects the rim better than any other player in this draft class.  He also switches and covers perimeter players better than anyone else in this draft class.  He is a rim protector that can legitimately switch 1-5 and hit the three point shot at a high rate.  He's the only true unicorn big man in this draft.  

Marvin Bagley, on the other hand, is nothing more than a garbage man on offense who doesn't defend at all.  He's completely terrible defensively, and has not shown a single positive trait on that end of the floor.  On offense, due to his lack of handles, lack of ability to go right, and lack of ability to space the floor, he's going to be limited as being a pick and roll dive man and rim runner on offense.  And that is what you want to build this team around.  An offensive rim runner who plays zero defense.  Bagley doesn't have a dominant skill.

[EazyRoc]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Highest BPM among all true freshmen this year and third highest freshman BPM since they have been calculating the stat.  That is earning it.  

BPM is useless without proper context.

[NBASupes]

So the full game footage is a lie is what you are saying? This is the type of poster supports JJJ, ones who call full game tape, a lie.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

That's because it's not true.  It's a complete lie.  You don't dominate the way JJJ does on defense and be uncoordinated.  Not only is he a dominant defender, but he's also the youngest player in the draft class.  He's almost a full 6 months younger than Marvin Bagley, and he's 16 months younger than Mohamed Bamba.  

JJJ not only protects the rim better than any other player in this draft class.  He also switches and covers perimeter players better than anyone else in this draft class.  He is a rim protector that can legitimately switch 1-5 and hit the three point shot at a high rate.  He's the only true unicorn big man in this draft.  

Marvin Bagley, on the other hand, is nothing more than a garbage man on offense who doesn't defend at all.  He's completely terrible defensively, and has not shown a single positive trait on that end of the floor.  On offense, due to his lack of handles, lack of ability to go right, and lack of ability to space the floor, he's going to be limited as being a pick and roll dive man and rim runner on offense.  And that is what you want to build this team around.  An offensive rim runner who plays zero defense.  Bagley doesn't have a dominant skill.

KB, we can Skype and watch gametape together brother. I watch every possession every step, every movement, every thought, I watch everything. 

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

So the full game footage is a lie is what you are saying? This is the type of poster supports JJJ, ones who call full game tape, a lie.

No.  What you are saying about full game footage is a lie.  If he had all of these issues you speak of, it would bear out in the stats.  The fact is, he doesn't have these issues though.  The guy can block Bagley's shot standing four feet away from him.  There is no lack of coordination or lack of functional strength at all, and if there is, then Bagley is even worse from that standpoint.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

No.  What you are saying about full game footage is a lie.  If he had all of these issues you speak of, it would bear out in the stats.  The fact is, he doesn't have these issues though.  The guy can block Bagley's shot standing four feet away from him.  There is no lack of coordination or lack of functional strength at all, and if there is, then Bagley is even worse from that standpoint.

The stat can bare out anyway you like to be honest. But the tape don't lie.

[KB21]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The stat can bare out anyway you like to be honest. But the tape don't lie.

The tape obviously does lie, because the eye test is subjective to bias.  You have a bias against players like JJJ who aren't dominant scorers right off the bat.  You are like most average NBA fans in that scoring is what matters, not actual winning impact.  

I prefer winning impact and skill level over scoring and athleticism.  Your way is how Andrew Wiggins gets taken #1 over Joel Embiid, who played more limited minutes, wasn't the scorer Wiggins was, but was far more impactful on winning than Wiggins.  Your way is also how Jahlil Okafor gets taken over Kristaps Porzingis.  His BPM beared out his defensive limitations and overall lack of versatility on offense, but it was ignored.  Jalil was, after all, a PPG monster at Duke.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The tape obviously does lie, because the eye test is subjective to bias.  You have a bias against players like JJJ who aren't dominant scorers right off the bat.  You are like most average NBA fans in that scoring is what matters, not actual winning impact.  

I prefer winning impact and skill level over scoring and athleticism.  Your way is how Andrew Wiggins gets taken #1 over Joel Embiid, who played more limited minutes, wasn't the scorer Wiggins was, but was far more impactful on winning than Wiggins.  Your way is also how Jahlil Okafor gets taken over Kristaps Porzingis.  His BPM beared out his defensive limitations and overall lack of versatility on offense, but it was ignored.  Jalil was, after all, a PPG monster at Duke.

How do I have a bias eye? 

 

I like Mo Bamba, he is more unpolished on offense than anyone in the top 10 out of Texas.

I am the king of preferring winning and impact, for crying out loud, I am an Al Horford supporter and LeBron fan. Not to mention, I have Mikal Bridges extremely high on my board and much higher than JJJ. What are you talking about?

No, I dont think JJJ is that impactful at all. I think he is just gifted. I dont see much skill. Don't see much natural talent. Just see a decent player. Great run/jump athlete,  good open shooter but weak, limited shot creation skill, poor passer, not because of vision but because he is weak. Limited body control. Very limited coordination when dealing with contact. The NBA is full of contact in the paint. He will never score outside of fast breaks and rim running.

I had Joel Embiid as my guy. Stop trying to frame this false narrative. I don't f*** with JJJ because I simply don't think he is any good. I don't like his upside and honestly, only would value his now with their right personnel grouping. I was never much of a Wiggins fan. Why do you keep framing someone who is offensively elite like Bagley with a disappointment even in college like Wiggins. It's like your verison of trolling.

If I didnt like KP, I would not like Bamba like I do. Where you see production and you say, well, it's not there but the talent and size is. Just needs polish. Once again, nothing like JJJ who I think is polished. Just not any good.

[KB21]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

How do I have a bias eye? 

 

I like Mo Bamba, he is more unpolished on offense than anyone in the top 10 out of Texas.

I am the king of preferring winning and impact, for crying out loud, I am an Al Horford supporter and LeBron fan. Not to mention, I have Mikal Bridges extremely high on my board and much higher than JJJ. What are you talking about?

No, I dont think JJJ is that impactful at all. I think he is just gifted. I dont see much skill. Don't see much natural talent. Just see a decent player. Great run/jump athlete,  good open shooter but weak, limited shot creation skill, poor passer, not because of vision but because he is weak. Limited body control. Very limited coordination when dealing with contact. The NBA is full of contact in the paint. He will never score outside of fast breaks and rim running.

I had Joel Embiid as my guy. Stop trying to frame this false narrative. I don't f*** with JJJ because I simply don't think he is any good. I don't like his upside and honestly, only would value his now with their right personnel grouping. I was never much of a Wiggins fan. Why do you keep framing someone who is offensively elite like Bagley with a disappointment even in college like Wiggins. It's like your verison of trolling.

If I didnt like KP, I would not like Bamba like I do. Where you see production and you say, well, it's not there but the talent and size is. Just needs polish. Once again, nothing like JJJ who I think is polished. Just not any good.

You are clearly biased.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You are clearly biased.

To the delusioned, I could be whatever 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

To the delusioned, I could be whatever 

Then give me one credible source that shares your biased view of JJJ.

[nathan2331]

Then give me one credible source that shares your biased view of JJJ.

It's an opinion and he's supported it. Just like you have an opinion and you supported it. This is a stalemate, there's nothing left to say. We'll see how their careers pan out.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Then give me one credible source that shares your biased view of JJJ.

Now you know, credibility is a judgement call for you. We all know that on here about you KB. 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, nathan2331 said:

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Then give me one credible source that shares your biased view of JJJ.

 

It's an opinion and he's supported it. Just like you have an opinion and you supported it. This is a stalemate, there's nothing left to say. We'll see how their careers pan out.

He has not presented any objective data that supports his view.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

He has not presented any objective data that supports his view.

Lol

[KB21]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Now you know, credibility is a judgement call for you. We all know that on here about you KB. 

OK, crawfish.  You can't find a credible source that shares your opinion.  I can post multiple credible sources that share my opinion on both players.

https://www.thestepien.com/marvin-bagley/

Quote

Bagley has high offensive potential as a play finisher if he plays the five in a kind of modern Amar’e Stoudemire role, but to optimize him requires a very specific ecosystem with a dynamic lead creator and defensive insulation. Assessing Bagley’s intelligence level and ability to pick up concepts quickly are critical inputs for any team in the pre-draft evaluation process because Bagley is FAR behind as a team defender to a potentially crippling level. Bagley’s motor and finishing intersection gives him a safe floor as a top-shelf energy big with skill, but in order to fully tap into his ceiling he’ll need to refine his perimeter game on offense mainly as a shooter and/or improve his defense to a respectable level. With the right fit next to a unicorn type Kristaps Porzingis big, Bagley could return elite value in this class. If he gets pigeonholed as a four in an Aaron Gordon type role, he likely won’t return top five value. Overall, drafting Bagley where he’ll likely go necessitates a plan to optimize him on offense. If a team can do that, his play finishing prowess could be impactful.

https://www.thestepien.com/jaren-jackson/

Quote

Jackson Jr. is one of the youngest players in his class, and has a ton of momentum right now with his athletic and strength improvement as a late bloomer. He looks to be capable of almost every task you’d ask from a modern big, with playmaking, shooting and two-level defensive upside. A legitimate candidate to break the top five come draft time, Jackson Jr’s rise will be contingent on the degree of his performance he is in these respective areas of course while keeping in mind there is untapped potential here with his age.