Supes v. KB, Nope! Just some JJJ v. Marvin Bagley talk

[JayBirdHawk]

Is there away to block a thread, like you can block a poster? .

You guys aren't saying anything new and won't change each other's minds, but have at it....I got my popcorn ready.

[thecampster]

Perhaps we should just post d*ck Pics...here's d*ck van Dyke  

[NBASupes]

Scouting MSU/Michigan: 

 

[Spud2nique]

Lol this thread

[NBASupes]

1st possession(MICH). Fighting(slipping) though screens. Sound defense. Even though Michigan scored, JJJ played sound defense throughout the possession. 

2nd poss(MSU). Slow to get down court, sets two very poor screens, rolls for a PnP and rushes the shot. 

Good turned into disappointment: 

Sets a slightly moving screens, demands the ball in the post, makes a smart decision to drive it to the left but struggles to finish around the rim. MSU got the rebound but he stood around the 3PT line till Nick Ward attempted a terrible post shot. 

 

[NBASupes]

Next poss(MICH) JJJ sells out for help defense. He isn't as focused on rebounding. MICH takes rushed shot, MSU ball.

MSU - Ward beats Wagner down the floor and draws a foul. JJJ looking disengaged when not involved but on defense, he seems to be constantly engaged at this point of the game.

Bridges with a selfish poss, JJJ looking to rebound and unknowingly knocks Ward to the floor. MSU keeps the ball, Winston PnR with JJJ and he scores while slashing. The screen was horrendously weak and poor. Bagley, Bamba and JJJ like most FR bigs will have to work on that for the next level. You notice how much more talented MSU is than MICH. 

MICH, JJJ makes a poor read on weakside causing a wild open layup for the PG. Overall, Nick Ward was at fault as he was in La-La land, chillin' thinking about Baskin Robbins. Overall, so far, JJJ has played well on D. 

MSU plan is simple right now, have Ward beat them down court, feed him, easy 2 or a foul. 

WTF is Miles Bridges doing!?!

 

 

[Sothron]

I just have to be honest: what point does this thread serve? At this point anyone on the site has already read at least a few thousands posts on all the top picks. We also all know where Supes and Ignored One come down on Bagley and JJJ. If you two want to keep arguing with each other, shouldn't this be done in a PM?

FWIW I hope we get Doncic or Bagley. JJJ is like the Marvin Williams version of John Henson to me. He can block some shots, has almost no offense, is slim and his metrics are skewed because he played fewer minutes. He's also young, has great shot blocking instincts and looks like he has the form to be a three point shooting big man.

In an ideal world for JJJ he becomes the modern NBA best big man. He can switch on pick and rolls, defend out to the three point line and can block shots. On offense he can pass when needed and hit some spot up three pointers.

Whoever we finally end up drafting, I pray they develop into  a superstar. I have a higher belief Bagley could be that guy. But if it is JJJ or even *blech* Young...I pray they become superstars. It wouldn't matter who was right or wrong if whoever we draft becomes that franchise altering player. We all win then.

[KB21]

I have to laugh at this idea that JJJ has no offense when he's by far the best shooting big man in not only this draft but probably in any draft prior to this.

[Spud2nique]

13 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I just have to be honest: what point does this thread serve? At this point anyone on the site has already read at least a few thousands posts on all the top picks. We also all know where Supes and Ignored One come down on Bagley and JJJ. If you two want to keep arguing with each other, shouldn't this be done in a PM?

FWIW I hope we get Doncic or Bagley. JJJ is like the Marvin Williams version of John Henson to me. He can block some shots, has almost no offense, is slim and his metrics are skewed because he played fewer minutes. He's also young, has great shot blocking instincts and looks like he has the form to be a three point shooting big man.

In an ideal world for JJJ he becomes the modern NBA best big man. He can switch on pick and rolls, defend out to the three point line and can block shots. On offense he can pass when needed and hit some spot up three pointers.

Whoever we finally end up drafting, I pray they develop into  a superstar. I have a higher belief Bagley could be that guy. But if it is JJJ or even *blech* Young...I pray they become superstars. It wouldn't matter who was right or wrong if whoever we draft becomes that franchise altering player. We all win then.

Agreed I have to read 6 pages cuz I missed 4 hours and after I read everything I feel like it wasn’t necessary.

[thecampster]

26 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I just have to be honest: what point does this thread serve? At this point anyone on the site has already read at least a few thousands posts on all the top picks. We also all know where Supes and Ignored One come down on Bagley and JJJ. If you two want to keep arguing with each other, shouldn't this be done in a PM?

FWIW I hope we get Doncic or Bagley. JJJ is like the Marvin Williams version of John Henson to me. He can block some shots, has almost no offense, is slim and his metrics are skewed because he played fewer minutes. He's also young, has great shot blocking instincts and looks like he has the form to be a three point shooting big man.

In an ideal world for JJJ he becomes the modern NBA best big man. He can switch on pick and rolls, defend out to the three point line and can block shots. On offense he can pass when needed and hit some spot up three pointers.

Whoever we finally end up drafting, I pray they develop into  a superstar. I have a higher belief Bagley could be that guy. But if it is JJJ or even *blech* Young...I pray they become superstars. It wouldn't matter who was right or wrong if whoever we draft becomes that franchise altering player. We all win then.

Well it did give me a chance to make a funny joke and it did clean up the main thread.

[KB21]

Just realize that if you draft Bagley, then you are going to have a harder time building a team around him.  His lack of skill limits what you can put around him.  You have to insulate him defensively, have to put shooting around him, and have to get a strong distributor of the ball.  So, when you look at the fit between Bagley and some of the guys who will rate at the top of the 2019 draft, then you will not find many who are fits alongside him.  RJ Barrett and Marvin Bagley would be very bad as far as shooting and defense goes.

[KB21]

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jaren-jackson-jr

Quote

NBA Comparison: Jermaine O'Neal

Strengths: Very gifted athletically ... Untapped potential ... Impressive quickness/mobility/agility ... His physical profile stands out as he’s listed at 6'11 and 235 lbs ... His wingspan measured at 7'5 ¼” at this year’s NBA Combine (third longest player in the draft) ... Standing reach is measured at 9'2, giving him tremendous size ... Fluid and coordinated as a runner...Has nice (huge) hands: measured at 10 inches in length ... His offensive game is extremely versatile ... He’s capable of facing up or playing with his back to the basket ... Has shown the capability of hitting from mid-range ... He flashed some offensive ball skills and control that could foreshadow his ability as an offensive talent ... Great ball-handling skills for his size (he’s a near 7-footer who can effortlessly take defenders off the dribble with either hand) ... Can put the ball on the floor in space, transition or on closeouts while using a variety of moves or making dump-off passes ... Has a great first-step ... Displayed great shooting consistency and efficiency from various areas of the floor: 59 percent on 2-pointers, 40 percent from the 3-point line, 51 percent overall from the field ... Has nice touch and finishing ability around the rim with either hand ... Active finisher around the basket ... Can finish through contact ... Showed a willingness to move without the ball ... Constant threat to scores off cuts and with or without the ball in transition ... Does a good job of running the baseline for alley-oops ... Connected on 80 percent of his free throws ... Defensively, he showed that he can defend in space and guard the perimeter extremely well for his size ... Gets into his stance and slides his feet better than any other big man in his class ... Projects to be the perfect defender for switches and closeouts at the next level ... Shows good defensive awareness off the ball, allowing him to be a solid help defender and weakside shot blocker ... Exceptional overall shot blocker, having averaged 3.0 blocks per game in his lone season at MSU ... Possesses great rim protection, anticipation, range, and instincts ... Solid post defender, didn’t bite on pump fakes often ... He seems to always be quick to the ball ... Never gives up on plays on defense ... Goes hard after offensive rebounds (high-level offensive rebounder) ... Has good timing on his putbacks ... Plays aggressively and with hustle/energy ... One of the youngest, if not the youngest, players in the draft ... Won’t turn 19 years of age until September ...

Weaknesses: A late bloomer in regards to his physical frame as he’s still a bit on the thin side ... Still very much a kid and will require additional time to fully mature both on and off the floor ... Would benefit from developing more muscle/strength for the next level (especially in the upper body) ... He’s not overly bouncy or explosive ... His overall offensive game is still unpolished despite the promise it has ... Jackson has a tendency to get into foul trouble (averaged 8.6 fouls per 100 possessions ... A lot of his fouls stem from him being undisciplined on defense ... Foul trouble was a main reason why his playing time was diminished throughout his FR season ... Needs to work on maintaining his balance as a low-post defender ... May need to tweak his shooting mechanics (low release, knuckleball), but still projects as a solid outside shooter ... Although he shot a high percentage throughout the season, he did attempt just seven shots per game (what will he do with an expanded role?) ... Needs to polish his shooting off the dribble ... He was too passive and therefore inconsistent at times ... Not an elite below-the-rim finisher ... Needs to learn how to move onto the next play (maturity) and not check out the game (mentally) when he makes a bad play or something doesn’t go his way ... Lacks passing awareness ... Doesn’t look comfortable making decisions with the ball ... Remains to be seen if he can develop into a playmaker ... His assist-to-turnover ratio left a lot to be desired ... Not a shifty enough ball-handler in traffic ... Can be a little wild and out of control when he puts the ball on the floor ... Does not have a go-to move in the post that he can rely upon ... Still developing the footwork that’ll be necessary as a viable low-post threat against bigger and stronger players in the NBA ... 

Overall: Jackson is perhaps the best two-way big man to come out of this year’s draft and has enormous upside ... He’s developed rapidly in one season under Tom Izzo at Michigan State ... In the modern NBA, Jackson’s skillset is what is in demand from big men ... He’s a complete big man who can shoot from deep, protect the rim and has no problem switching out to guards in the pick-and-roll or isolation ... He just didn’t get a chance to really show the full range of his value on a consistent basis with the Spartans ... He averaged just 21.8 minutes per game, and much of the reasoning behind that is because he was so foul prone (he also was the fifth option on most nights) ... Jackson thoroughly contemplated returning to school for his sophomore year in order to show that he was capable of a larger role and averaging the 20-10 numbers that his contemporaries (DeAndre Ayton & Marvin Bagley III) put up throughout the season. But scouts and other NBA personnel don’t need to see another year of him in Spartans uniform to know that he has a ton of promise on both ends of the floor ... One thing to note about Jackson is that he’s just scratching the surface of his abilities and is still realizing how good he can become ... He’s built a strong case for top-5 consideration in this year’s draft, though he will probably require more patience than some of the other elite prospects ...

Notes: Measured: 6' 9.75'' barefoot, 6' 11.25'' in shoes, 236.0 lbs, 7' 5.25'' wingspan, 9' 2'' standing reach, 7.20% body fat, 10.00 inch hand length at the 2018 NBA Draft Combine ... 

Tajh Jenkins 6/10/18

 

[High5]

People who talk with so much certainty about these prospects (especially to the point of being so hostile) need to get a grip. We're talking about kids who have been playing against other kids. Scouts and GMs who know a lot more than any of us get these things wrong all the time. 

[KB21]

10 minutes ago, High5 said:

People who talk with so much certainty about these prospects (especially to the point of being so hostile) need to get a grip. We're talking about kids who have been playing against other kids. Scouts and GMs who know a lot more than any of us get these things wrong all the time. 

Yeah.  So we should just blindly go along with whatever the Hawks do and not really critique the possibilities at all.  Particularly considering that the GM of the Hawks is a flaming moron.  But hey, this is a league that thought it was a good idea to use the #1 overall picks on Anthony Bennett and Andrew Wiggins in consecutive drafts.

[kerrypack]

there is nothing wrong with a team that has talented but limited players.  You need a few who are alphas.

[High5]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.  So we should just blindly go along with whatever the Hawks do and not really critique the possibilities at all.  

That's definitely what I said. Well done. 

[thecampster]

After much thought and pondering and unfortunately dreaming about this post (you know your life needs an enema when you start dreaming of your next post on Hawksquawk), I have decided this thread really isn't viable.  Not because of the value of the players, but because of the nature of the NBA.  The number 1 focus of an organization is selling tickets. It is not winning a championship, diversity or lowering the price of beer.

 

The number one concern of basketball organizations is selling tickets and nothing sells tickets like a sexy draft pick. I've tried to get on board with the "defense wins championships" or "best player available" but I don't think any of that matters. Sexy sells and to the average NBA fan, a sexy draft pic is one that scores the hell out of the basketball.  Fans forgive poor defense, but they can't forgive bad offense (see Josh Smith).  I think given a choice between Bagley III and JJJ, there is no way the Hawks pass on Bagley. The pick is just too sexy. I'm not saying its right, but its marketable.  I think this thread/argument is moot.

[KB21]

50 minutes ago, thecampster said:

After much thought and pondering and unfortunately dreaming about this post (you know your life needs an enema when you start dreaming of your next post on Hawksquawk), I have decided this thread really isn't viable.  Not because of the value of the players, but because of the nature of the NBA.  The number 1 focus of an organization is selling tickets. It is not winning a championship, diversity or lowering the price of beer.

 

The number one concern of basketball organizations is selling tickets and nothing sells tickets like a sexy draft pick. I've tried to get on board with the "defense wins championships" or "best player available" but I don't think any of that matters. Sexy sells and to the average NBA fan, a sexy draft pic is one that scores the hell out of the basketball.  Fans forgive poor defense, but they can't forgive bad offense (see Josh Smith).  I think given a choice between Bagley III and JJJ, there is no way the Hawks pass on Bagley. The pick is just too sexy. I'm not saying its right, but its marketable.  I think this thread/argument is moot.

Unfortunately, this is how most owners and the majority of fans think.  We have already seen Tony Ressler make a decision based on the idea of ticket sells, which was the Dwight Howard signing.  Drafting Marvin Bagley over Jaren Jackson Jr would be as bad deciding to sign Dwight Howard instead of bringing back Al Horford.

[NBASupes]

12 hours ago, KB21 said:

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jaren-jackson-jr

 

Marvin Williams part deux. There is nothing on his strengths list that he does people are playing physical with him. Jermaine O'Neal strength was his mental toughness and his ability to finish when playing through contact. Don't be fooled by the cut clips. 

[KB21]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Marvin Williams part deux. There is nothing on his strengths list that he does people are playing physical with him. Jermaine O'Neal strength was his mental toughness and his ability to finish when playing through contact. Don't be fooled by the cut clips. 

You do realize you are being made fun of on twitter with your continuous bogus claims that JJJ is nothing more than another Marvin Williams?