Well.. It doesn't look like we need anything. We are a team headed to the Chip!!

[Diesel]

Listening to the Hawks fans here.

1.  We can't move Capella.  - So  keeping Capella Means that we are good at C. 

2.   We can't move Collins.  - So  keeping Collins Means that we are good at PF. 

3.  We have enough Tweeners.

4.  We don't want a SG like Bradley Beal  or Joe Harris.   So we're good at SG.

5.  Trae is a superstar in the making.

 

Therefore.. if we have all of those positions covered plus we have highly sought after Depth..  Then this team is headed to the Chip in Hawks fans eyes!!!

 

[AHF]

I think you are confusing two different statements:

1. We don't need anything.  We are ready for a ring as we are!
2. We need to add to this team and have a lot of assets and avenues to do so but the particular deals being discussed don't make sense for us.  

[JayBirdHawk]

Said No One Ever!

We just disagree with your trade ideas. 

There are enough threads floating around to dispel that.

 

 

 

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think you are confusing two different statements:

1. We don't need anything.  We are ready for a ring as we are!
2. We need to add to this team and have a lot of assets and avenues to do so but the particular deals being discussed don't make sense for us.  

As long as we have sacred cows... then nothing will make sense. 

Right now, our Homerism is so high that we (as fans) think that we can get something of value for Herter and Dedmon... and half of the fan base don't want to move Dedmon.   It's like we're waiting on Schlenk to announce that he got McCollum for Dedmon and Huerter.   Where you and I agree is that we have lots of assets.  But we have to see them as Assets.  The only untouchables in my mind is Trae and possibly Collins and Cam.  However, Collins and Cam can be moved too... if the right deal comes along. 

The other thing about our sacred cow problem... is for us... no other player seems good enough.  Let me tell you.. if a star level player is being traded... he has some sort of weakness in his game.   Whether that be Beal or Oladipo or Vucevic... If you look hard enough, you will find a flaw.  But where we are, we need a vet who can play and be a secondary scorer.  

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, Diesel said:

As long as we have sacred cows... then nothing will make sense. 

Right now, our Homerism is so high that we (as fans) think that we can get something of value for Herter and Dedmon... and half of the fan base don't want to move Dedmon.   It's like we're waiting on Schlenk to announce that he got McCollum for Dedmon and Huerter.   Where you and I agree is that we have lots of assets.  But we have to see them as Assets.  The only untouchables in my mind is Trae and possibly Collins and Cam.  However, Collins and Cam can be moved too... if the right deal comes along. 

The other thing about our sacred cow problem... is for us... no other player seems good enough.  Let me tell you.. if a star level player is being traded... he has some sort of weakness in his game.   Whether that be Beal or Oladipo or Vucevic... If you look hard enough, you will find a flaw.  But where we are, we need a vet who can play and be a secondary scorer.  

Exactly! Nothing about Tobias Harris is 'the right deal'

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Said No One Ever!

We just disagree with your trade ideas. 

There are enough threads floating around to dispel that.

 

 

 

Can you point to 1 trade that 51% of Hawksquawk will agree that this is something worth pursuing??  Just 1?

This has always been the problem here.   We think too highly of players once they get the Hawks Jersey.   Capella has yet to play a moment and he's already sacred to Hawks fans.  IF Capella and #6 could get us a secondary scorer and vet... I would move him tonight. 

 

[Diesel]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

Exactly! Nothing about Tobias Harris is 'the right deal'

I agree.  Nothing about his contract is right.    But Style of play... we need a secondary scorer. 

[macdaddy]

We need a solid vets off the bench.   We don't need guys who get paid like stars but aren't.   Beal, Oladipo, Tobias Harris, Vuc all these guys are available because they don't move the needle enough for the amount of cap they eat up and limit the ability to get the rest of the team.   

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

We need a solid vets off the bench.   We don't need guys who get paid like stars but aren't.   Beal, Oladipo, Tobias Harris, Vuc all these guys are available because they don't move the needle enough for the amount of cap they eat up and limit the ability to get the rest of the team.   

I heard the same argument about Jimmy Butler Last year.   Plus with Butler, I heard he wasn't a good lockerroom guy either.   However, you can't judge a player solely by looking at him in one system on one team under one coach.  I remember for years talking about how Paul Millsap is a player at Utah that couldn't move the needle.   This is why the job of GM is difficult.  A GM needs a vision and a GM needs to be able to see how skillsets will fit on his team. 

 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Can you point to 1 trade that 51% of Hawksquawk will agree that this is something worth pursuing??  Just 1?

 

 

You can peruse this thread if you want or you can create a 'pole' if you want.

 

[AHF]

21 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Can you point to 1 trade that 51% of Hawksquawk will agree that this is something worth pursuing??  Just 1?

 

Looking backwards, probably 99% of the Squawk agreed with the actual trade that got us Capela.  Any repeat of that kind of trade would get huge approval.  Because it would be more value coming back than is going out.  

[Diesel]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Looking backwards, probably 99% of the Squawk agreed with the actual trade that got us Capela.  Any repeat of that kind of trade would get huge approval.  Because it would be more value coming back than is going out.  

I suppose if it would have been predicted beforehand... 99% would have been like.. NO.. He's injured.  There's a difference between agreement before the fact and agreement after the fact... counselor. 

[kg01]

Wait, so you put out a bunch of terrible trade ideas then yell at us for not agreeing with them?

[gurpilo]

We have been rebuilding for 3 years, absorbing bad contracts to be able to get assets.

We have reach a point where we have 7 assets and all are seen as potentially above average players. Young, Kevin, Cam, Hunter, Collins, Capela and 6th pick. In fact some of them have the potential to be top 15 at his position, Young, Cam, Collins and Capela if you ask me.

So the issue here is if you do a trade you are getting less value than the potential you know these players have. There is a reason teams do not trade players on rookie contracts, return they are getting is low compared to the value. Only players we can find in some trade conversations are Huerter and #6th pick, lower value assets today, situation might change depending on the pick me make.

In a situation where you have huge cap space and young assets with huge potential the way to maximize your winning chances is to fill the current roster with short contracts for role players that help the team grow, develop and win games and be on a position to keep your full core in 3-4 years once they have reached their potential.

A trade of a young asset with good potential for a 30 year old good player or a 1 year rental is not the way to go.

Any team you get by your trade proposals is worst now and on the future to a team that adds to this 7 players a group like Christian Wood, Dedmon, Skal, Jae Crowder, KCP, Napier and Haliburton to name a possible plan. There might be a lot more FA options with similar impact on the team.

We are on a unique position, is not the time to experience anger and try to squeeze the plan and jump steps, that is how you ruin the plan. Enjoy the growth road gents, we are going through the good road

Edited November 6, 2020 by gurpilo

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I suppose if it would have been predicted beforehand... 99% would have been like.. NO.. He's injured.  There's a difference between agreement before the fact and agreement after the fact... counselor. 

The proof is in the actual thread where people were clamoring for us to trade for a big with a focus on Capela, Drummond and Steven Adams.  People were willing to give a lot more than we ended up giving away to get one of them.

So....no.

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Wait, so you put out a bunch of terrible trade ideas then yell at us for not agreeing with them?

Not just my ideas...   Check every thread.  Upon coming back... I have noted that anytime somebody posts a trade thought... it's shot down with quickness.   And Supes finally has what he has wanted all these years.. people paying attention to him and his "source".  It's the same "source" that he had when Gearon Jr. was the owner and Gearon Sr. was still alive.  The same "source" when "the handshake" was turned down.  The squawk have always been a group of Homers... I stand proudly as one.. but we have to relieve ourselves of sacred cows... because as My title pokes fun of...  We are not headed to the Chip... so we do have problems that need addressing and it's not about our 2nd team depth.  Let's not fool ourselves. 

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

We have been rebuilding for 3 years, absorbing bad contracts to be able to get assets.

We have reach a point where we have 7 assets and all are seen as potentially above average players. Young, Kevin, Cam, Hunter, Collins, Capela and 6th pick. In fact some of them have the potential to be top 15 at his position, Young, Cam, Collins and Capela if you ask me.

So the issue here is if you do a trade you are getting less value than the potential you know these players have. There is a reason teams do not trade players on rookie contracts, return they are getting is low compared to the value. Only players we can find in some trade conversations are Huerter and #6th pick, lower value assets today, situation might change depending on the pick me make.

In a situation where you have huge cap space and young assets with huge potential the way to maximize your winning chances is to fill the current roster with short contracts for role players that help the team grow, develop and win games and be on a position to keep your full core in 3-4 years once they have reached their potential.

A trade of a young asset with good potential for a 30 year old good player or a 1 year rental is not the way to go.

Any team you get by your trade proposal is worst now and on the future to a team that adds to this 7 players a group like Christian Wood, Dedmon, Skal, Jae Crowder, KCP, Napier and Haliburton to name a possible plan. There might be e lot more options with similar impact on the team.

Pilo... I appreciate you.  And I agree with a lot of what you say.

I even agree with Young, Cam, and Collins... with the understanding that Cam and Collins can be moved in the right deal.   I have no loyalty to Capela.  IF he can make a good trade happen for us... then let's do it. 

Here's a problem:

"In a situation where you have huge cap space and young assets with huge potential the way to maximize your winning chances is to fill the current roster with short contracts for role players that help the team grow, develop and win games and be on a position to keep your full core in 3-4 years once they have reached their potential."

I think this statement isn't one that is true at all times.  Maybe not even half the time.   I think of the short contracts of Sap and DMC that made Laettner a less than stellar GM. 

In the situation where you have huge cap space and young assets... you start to look at vets who may not be happy in their situation. 

KAT,  Beal, Buddy H...  all these guys are rumored to be unhappy in their situation.   All these guys have skillsets that we could use.   I would spend less on KAT because of the shortness of his contract. 

You also have to look at teams that's restarting... like the Wizards.    For instance... if PTL said that they were starting over.. then our first call ought to be about McCollum. 

But for the most part, we agree. 

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

KAT,  Beal, Buddy H...  all these guys are rumored to be unhappy in their situation.   All these guys have skillsets that we could use.   I would spend less on KAT because of the shortness of his contract. 

 

 KAT is locked into a guaranteed contract for the next 4 years same as Buddy.  Beal has 3 years left (PO is year 3).

[gurpilo]

hace 12 minutos, Diesel dijo:

Pilo... I appreciate you.  And I agree with a lot of what you say.

I even agree with Young, Cam, and Collins... with the understanding that Cam and Collins can be moved in the right deal.   I have no loyalty to Capela.  IF he can make a good trade happen for us... then let's do it. 

Here's a problem:

"In a situation where you have huge cap space and young assets with huge potential the way to maximize your winning chances is to fill the current roster with short contracts for role players that help the team grow, develop and win games and be on a position to keep your full core in 3-4 years once they have reached their potential."

I think this statement isn't one that is true at all times.  Maybe not even half the time.   I think of the short contracts of Sap and DMC that made Laettner a less than stellar GM. 

In the situation where you have huge cap space and young assets... you start to look at vets who may not be happy in their situation. 

KAT,  Beal, Buddy H...  all these guys are rumored to be unhappy in their situation.   All these guys have skillsets that we could use.   I would spend less on KAT because of the shortness of his contract. 

You also have to look at teams that's restarting... like the Wizards.    For instance... if PTL said that they were starting over.. then our first call ought to be about McCollum. 

But for the most part, we agree. 

Of course the worst part of the plan is Atlanta's lack of ability to attract FA.  But we are not talking about stars, just role players that play defense, do not f*** the offense and fill our holes, there is a good amount of those on this year FAgency.

About the examples you mention I would trade 6th pick, Huerter and Capela for KAT on a heartbeat. But the price for Beal or Hield is too hiigh and you end with a worst team medium term than keeping your core. We are not on winning mode yet, we are building to be on winning mode on 3 years, probably with a few trips to the playoffs until we reach that point.

[kg01]

20 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Not just my ideas...   Check every thread.  Upon coming back... I have noted that anytime somebody posts a trade thought... it's shot down with quickness.   And Supes finally has what he has wanted all these years.. people paying attention to him and his "source".  It's the same "source" that he had when Gearon Jr. was the owner and Gearon Sr. was still alive.  The same "source" when "the handshake" was turned down.  The squawk have always been a group of Homers... I stand proudly as one.. but we have to relieve ourselves of sacred cows... because as My title pokes fun of...  We are not headed to the Chip... so we do have problems that need addressing and it's not about our 2nd team depth.  Let's not fool ourselves. 

Ah so this is some beef supe going on?  I'm up to speed now. 

I don't think it's folks too enamored with sacred cows.  I think it's more acknowledging to build something you gotta have building blocks.  Nothing wrong with trading for upgrades but the deals have to make sense on a lot of levels.

Most of the deals people attach us to are simply including us as the sacrificial lamb.  They think, because we have capspace and aren't a free agent destination (of which there are basically 3 in the whole league so I don't know how it matters more for us than others, but I digress), we're thirsty to just accept any and all contracts and terms.

The rejection you're seeing is us saying, "wait a minute, that deal doesn't work for us" or "hey, I get how that helps the other team but what about us".

Long story long, no sacred cows but also no sacrificial lambs.