Would you pay Dejounte a max contract?

[swanlee]

Id try not to but if its max contract or he walks and we get nothing then Im giving him a max contract.

[Wretch]

50 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Valid question.  I'm not sure you can.  

Reminder that we got rid of a guy who could shoot almost like Klay Thompson to bring Murray to the team because he could do a lot of other things.  Mainly it was creating offense with the ball and better defense.  Now we are saying we also want him to be Klay Thompson. 

He can get you 20 points, 6 assists, and 6 rebounds.  Not sure it's fair to also ask him to shoot like Klay.  He did show signs of improvement, but kind of slumped the last part of the season.  

I need to be clear...because we love polarized conversations on the Squawk.  It's always either/or and nothing in between.  In this case, it's either Dejounte is worth the max or he isn't.  My answer isn't so binary, but let's get this out of the way first... 

This isn't a case of "DJ sucks at shooting the 3, so I don't want him."   Dejounte is a fantastic player and certainly worthy of max contract consideration.  I do not want to trade him or let him walk.  I still feel that he is a great compliment to Trae and I felt, and still feel, this is a 50+ win team because of that if they are coached right.

However, this is all an "in a bubble" statement for me.  Paying him a max contract (or maybe I should say retaining him) should be contingent upon how the entire team plays and/or personnel changes.  We can't have a starting lineup (a whole team really) riddled with middling shooters AND lock ourselves into a SG that can't shoot from distance.  One of those things must give (ideally both) if we want to be serious.  If we can't upgrade the spacing in the frontcourt, and DJ can't knock down the 3 with above average consistency (especially from the SG position), then there is absolutely no way I would pay him that much money. 

It's not a knock against him as a player.  I love him as a player and how he compliments Trae with his ability to handle the ball.  We can't compete with a starting lineup full of guys exchanging 2's for 3's and also can't punish the defense with consistency from deep.  That is poorly constructed team that I would not put my hopes in.  Agree to disagree, but I will die on that hill...

[AHF]

In the abstract, I don't think DM is max contract worthy.  He is a good player but I don't think he will ever be particularly good value on max deal.  He just isn't that great a playmaker, that impactful a defender, or that efficient of a scorer.  Good but not great in all these areas.  What will test that pretty strenuously is the fact that we have limited options if we let him walk (i.e., it isn't like we could just sign some max free agent if he leaves), the amount we gave up to trade for him, and the rising cap which will make it not only easier for us to justify a higher salary for him but for other teams to offer him a max deal to lure him away.  

It is going to be a tough call to make if both the Hawks and DM don't significantly improve next year.

 

[GameTime]

4 hours ago, swanlee said:

Id try not to but if its max contract or he walks and we get nothing then Im giving him a max contract.

That's why he gotta get dealt.

[terrell]

4 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Valid question.  I'm not sure you can.  

Reminder that we got rid of a guy who could shoot almost like Klay Thompson to bring Murray to the team because he could do a lot of other things.  Mainly it was creating offense with the ball and better defense.  Now we are saying we also want him to be Klay Thompson. 

He can get you 20 points, 6 assists, and 6 rebounds.  Not sure it's fair to also ask him to shoot like Klay.  He did show signs of improvement, but kind of slumped the last part of the season.  

On 20 shots.. lol

I think Kev got to the FT line more than Murray.. smh

[Final_quest]

3 hours ago, Wretch said:

I need to be clear...because we love polarized conversations on the Squawk.  It's always either/or and nothing in between.  In this case, it's either Dejounte is worth the max or he isn't.  My answer isn't so binary, but let's get this out of the way first... 

This isn't a case of "DJ sucks at shooting the 3, so I don't want him."   Dejounte is a fantastic player and certainly worthy of max contract consideration.  I do not want to trade him or let him walk.  I still feel that he is a great compliment to Trae and I felt, and still feel, this is a 50+ win team because of that if they are coached right.

However, this is all an "in a bubble" statement for me.  Paying him a max contract (or maybe I should say retaining him) should be contingent upon how the entire team plays and/or personnel changes.  We can't have a starting lineup (a whole team really) riddled with middling shooters AND lock ourselves into a SG that can't shoot from distance.  One of those things must give (ideally both) if we want to be serious.  If we can't upgrade the spacing in the frontcourt, and DJ can't knock down the 3 with above average consistency (especially from the SG position), then there is absolutely no way I would pay him that much money. 

It's not a knock against him as a player.  I love him as a player and how he compliments Trae with his ability to handle the ball.  We can't compete with a starting lineup full of guys exchanging 2's for 3's and also can't punish the defense with consistency from deep.  That is poorly constructed team that I would not put my hopes in.  Agree to disagree, but I will die on that hill...

I’m not trying to be polarizing.  I think there are a lot of variables and questions with DJM.  Certainly not the ideal guy for a max contract.  
Is he the right fit for our roster, particularly as a back court pair with Trae?  Probably most important question.  

In this thread I was mainly reacting to trying to turn him into a shooter.  I think it’s better to get a pure shooter than force a guy to become that who has never been a shooter.  
With Hunter and Murray we have two guys who are slightly below average shooters and both supposed to be defensive dawgs.  Maybe neither are great at defense or shooting.  
There are fit questions at almost every position.  I’m really curious to see what the FO will do in the next few weeks.

[Wretch]

6 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I’m not trying to be polarizing.  I think there are a lot of variables and questions with DJM.  Certainly not the ideal guy for a max contract.  
Is he the right fit for our roster, particularly as a back court pair with Trae?  Probably most important question.  

In this thread I was mainly reacting to trying to turn him into a shooter.  I think it’s better to get a pure shooter than force a guy to become that who has never been a shooter.  
With Hunter and Murray we have two guys who are slightly below average shooters and both supposed to be defensive dawgs.  Maybe neither are great at defense or shooting.  
There are fit questions at almost every position.  I’m really curious to see what the FO will do in the next few weeks.

That's fair.  Though I do have to stress another sticking point for me.  I don't know to phrase it other than I don't know why he's not a more consistent long distance shooter.  To me at least, it seems like he should be better at it.  He hits great shots from deep and sometimes he'll go off for the whole damn night.  Next game, he just comes back down to Earth.  So, I don't feel like we'd be trying to make him a shooter as it were.  I think there's already a good shooter in him and that's the next level of his game. 

I also think perimeter shooting is just as valuable a compliment to Trae as shot creation, ball-handling, and defense are.  We can debate whether any SG starting with Trae needs to be a good distance shooter, but we know for a fact that Trae MUST have shooters around him regardless.  I have to admit that I have a hard time excluding DJ from consideration there.  He is our second option after-all and while this is more of a fit question...I'll maintain that it should have implications on how the starting lineup is constructed (and inevitably how we pay DJ). 

I mean, ignoring his 3pt shot because he's really good at other things forces us to make decisions at other spots - similarly to how we are backed into a corner with Capela/OO/JC.  Again, not saying I don't like DJ or that I want to trade him...just saying that his shot is a package deal with how we build the frontcourt.  As long as we are lacking a legit threat from deep in the starting lineup and as long as we keep DJM and he's NOT filling that role, it means that "Tier-1 shooter" is a requirement for any given 3/4/5 we could potentially make a move for (or promote from the bench).

...or we might as well had just kept Nate.

[RedDawg#8]

2 hours ago, terrell said:

On 20 shots.. lol

I think Kev got to the FT line more than Murray.. smh

He did not, and it doesn’t take any effort to look up before making agenda driven digs at DJ.

DJ gets to line more and shoots better from the line both this season and across their careers.

2023 FTA per Game and FT%

Kev: 1.7, .725
DJ: 2.6, .832

Career FTA per game and FT%

Kev: 1.1, .766

DJ: 2.2, .784

DJ is also on a cheaper contract than Kev (4/64 vs 4/65) has been an all star, all defensive team, and NBA steals leader.

Kev has done none of those. Not sure why we are trying to equate these 2.

 

[terrell]

25 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

He did not, and it doesn’t take any effort to look up before making agenda driven digs at DJ.

DJ gets to line more and shoots better from the line both this season and across their careers.

2023 FTA per Game and FT%

Kev: 1.7, .725
DJ: 2.6, .832

Career FTA per game and FT%

Kev: 1.1, .766

DJ: 2.2, .784

DJ is also on a cheaper contract than Kev (4/64 vs 4/65) has been an all star, all defensive team, and NBA steals leader.

Kev has done none of those. Not sure why we are trying to equate these 2.

 

Calm down man.. Geez..

DJM getting to the FT line was a problem.. It was brought up ALOT last season.. The Kev thing was a joke....

I wasnt talking about his career btw. Just last season.. I was expecting better.. Good grief..

Sounds more like you taking digs at Kevin.. lol

Edited June 13, 2023 by terrell

[RedDawg#8]

11 hours ago, terrell said:

Sounds more like you taking digs at Kevin.. lol

Because Kev was literally afraid of contact, so even joking about him getting to the line is enough to set me off.