Would you pay Dejounte a max contract?

[akay]

Based on this season, I wouldn't wanna pay DJM a max - a bit more than Jordan Poole money probably?

Is there a minimum standard yall need to see from Murray before feeling comfy paying him a max?

My criteria for max

- All star/all NBA season

- Put on muscle and actually become the defensive POA stopper we were hoping for consistently every night

- Trae goes down and Murray replaces that production 1-1 for 20+ games while Trae is out

- 50/40/90 szn on decent volume

From my quick spitballin, feels like Murray isn't gonna hit the things needed to be given a comfy max. Worried he's gonna play just well enough we won't be able to shed him with no recourse given we gave up those picks, but also maxing him would limit our team tremendously.

If there was a world where it was 

a) max DJM

or 

b) use the DJM max money on 2-3 high level role players

I'd go with B

Which means, Murray trade during trade deadline if some playoff hopeful team realizes they need a pg (Boston?)

 

In any case, next season should be fun, full of drama, and hopefully good ball 

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, akay said:

If there was a world where it was 

a) max DJM

or 

b) use the DJM max money on 2-3 high level role players

I'd go with B

Those are probably not the options.  At least option B isn't available because we would be capped out.  I think it's either pay him or trade him.  He may end up like Joe Johnson, or any other player that you knowingly overpay to retain.  Trade often comes a year or two later.  

[akay]

20 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Those are probably not the options.  At least option B isn't available because we would be capped out.  I think it's either pay him or trade him.  He may end up like Joe Johnson, or any other player that you knowingly overpay to retain.  Trade often comes a year or two later.  

A DJM on a max trade a year after signing him is gonna be a sad sight, hope we don't get there lol.

Thanks for bringing up we're capped out, totally forgot. We've cornered ourselves into a tough position team building-wise, it'll be interesting to see what the top minds at Hawks hq do about it.

[theheroatl]

I view DJM as very similar to Jaylen Brown. Based on that, the market will get him a max.

[RedDawg#8]

I would not give him a full max. I believe DJM is at best the 3rd best player on a championship roster and maybe not that considering the positional/skill overlap with Trae.

He does not have the resume to be considered a full max guy.

I would give him money in the 30’s , but not the 40’s.

 

[NBASupes]

Hell no. I don't believe Trae should be on one. 

[BangHolman]

No

[ATLHawks3]

5 years and in the range of $150 million is what I would be comfortable offering.

[Peoriabird]

This can't be a serious question.

[Wretch]

On 6/6/2023 at 12:21 PM, akay said:

- 50/40/90 szn on decent volume

Reasonable expectations, but all I'm worried about is that last line and the "40".  I think things are going to look a lot better once we have a real offense in place, but I'mma need DJ to work on that 3-ball more than anything else.  Forget a max contract, we absolutely can't keep being a mediocre 3pt shooting team and at the same time justify having a starting 2 guard some-timing it on the long ball at any price.  I love DJ, but he's out there looking like Ray Allen one night and Allan Ray the next.

Who's Allan Ray you ask? 
I don't know I just know he ain't Ray Allen.  I also Googled "Allen Ray" and his name popped up and made my wordplay complete so there it is.

[warcore]

3 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Who's Allan Ray you ask? 

He's a real person... he was the other guard on the Villanova team with Kyle Lowry. He's the one that had his eyeball pop out of his socket briefly during a game. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 6/6/2023 at 11:21 AM, akay said:

My criteria for max

- All star/all NBA season

- Put on muscle and actually become the defensive POA stopper we were hoping for consistently every night

- Trae goes down and Murray replaces that production 1-1 for 20+ games while Trae is out

- 50/40/90 szn on decent volume

 

(1) Agree.  This should be the #1 thing in determining a max deal.  If he's not an All-Star/All-NBA caliber player, we should not give him the max.  This does not mean that some other team WILL NOT give him the max.

(2) Agree again.  He needs to add some muscle. I keep thinking about his matchup with Bradley Beal, who is an inch shorter than him, but is about 10 - 15 lbs heavier.  Beal obviously bullied the smaller Trae. But he did the same thing to Dejounte.  The extra muscle will also help Dejounte on offense with his midrange game, and may have him be more willing to take and absorb contact going to the rim.

(3) I think we already have evidence that he can do most of that right now. He played in 7 games without Trae in the lineup.  Here were his numbers:

• 25.3 ppg
• 8.3 asst
• 5.3 rebs
• 46% FG
• 39% 3FG
• 83% FG on 4 FTA

(4) 50 - 40 - 90 season on decent volume? . . . unrealistic expectation.  I say that because who in the league is actually doing that?  Not even Stephen Curry did that.  If Dejounte got the above numbers stated in (3), that's definitely grounds for a max deal.  That's the type of production alongside Trae, that could justify him getting a big deal. 

 

[Gray Mule]

As Hawk fans, why do we worry that one of our players will demand maximum payment without earning it?  I don't know, but we do.  

Hawks paid a huge payment for Murray with the expectations that he would be great.  He's very good but he has failed to be great.  Great would have led the Atlanta Hawks into many victories last season and far into the playoffs.  This didn't happen.  

Failure wasn't Murray's fault.  Really?  All the other Hawks were just sorry NBA players?  Are we to believe that he is our only good player?  Nope.  He's just one or the team and needs to get paid as one of the gang, not as a superior player because he ain't!

[Final_quest]

50/40/90!?  Yall are crazy.  No one gets numbers like that.  Luka shoots like 33-34% from 3.  

It's amazing to me what qualifies someone as a shooter in this league and then you look at the percentages.  Also, just because someone is a "shooting" guard by position doesn't mean they need to be an elite shooter.  The game is multi-dimensional.  Murray shoots at percentages that are much closer to other starters in the league.  Golden State really warped people's thinking that you have to be a splash brother to be worthy of starting.  

[Atlantaholic]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

50/40/90!?  Yall are crazy.  No one gets numbers like that.  Luka shoots like 33-34% from 3.  

It's amazing to me what qualifies someone as a shooter in this league and then you look at the percentages.  Also, just because someone is a "shooting" guard by position doesn't mean they need to be an elite shooter.  The game is multi-dimensional.  Murray shoots at percentages that are much closer to other starters in the league.  Golden State really warped people's thinking that you have to be a splash brother to be worthy of starting.  

Nah, what Nugs and Warriors have proven though is that if you sorround great shooters with great passers in the NBA today. You win. 

[Wretch]

@TheNorthCydeRises@Final_quest 

So, I'm not sure if "ya'll are crazy" means I'm being dragged into this "unrealistic expectations" conversation and I want to be super-clear about my expectations. 

This is where my concern is with DJM and signing him to a max extension:

Quote

Reasonable expectations, but all I'm worried about is that last line and the "40".

First and foremost, I didn't say it explicitly, but I was suggesting that in general, the points @akay made are realistic example expectations for a max contract considerations.  However, I am not saying ALL of these things listed is required. 

Secondly, I drew attention to a specific expectation for me and a specific number within that expectation.  To be more clear, his shooting stats are what concern me with emphasis on his 3 point shot.  There is also this bit of additional context in case anyone is confused about my opinion:

Quote

we absolutely can't keep being a mediocre 3pt shooting team and at the same time justify having a starting 2 guard some-timing it on the long ball at any price.

My point isn't specifically about DJM as a shooter, in a vacuum, and being able to shoot 50/40/90...and though I did point to the 40, I did not specifically say that he has to shoot +40% from 3.  Moreover, those two statements have a dependency upon each other.

We struggled from deep.  CC doesn't shoot outside of 5 feet.  JC has struggled since putting up those amazing numbers in 21/22.  Dre is markedly average from deep and our 6th man is the textbook definition of streaky.  They are not going to let Trae shoot, so how the hell do we justify locking in a starting SG on a max contract on 34% 3FG?

I've been saying this since the beginning of the off season, but I don't feel like we've been talking about DJ's shooting enough.  My point is not that all shooting guards have to be amazing 3 point shooters.  I am saying if we're going to pay DJM a max contract, we better have shooters around him and Trae OR he needs to improve his 3pt shot dramatically.

Not only that, but he actually looks really good shooting it some nights.  Is this unrealistic?

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

so how the hell do we justify locking in a starting SG on a max contract on 34% 3FG?

Not saying I would pay DJ a max, but look no further than SG Bradley Beal (yeah I know it's the Wiz), his last 3 years from 3 - 34%, 30%, 36% - and he's on a super max with a no trade clause.  

My concern with DJ is his defense, running the offense (fix that high dribble), driving to the paint and his rebounding....I want that guy I thought we were getting. Hopefully Quin's offense/defense will put him in a better position

[Wretch]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Not saying I would pay DJ a max, but look no further than SG Bradley Beal (yeah I know it's the Wiz), his last 3 years from 3 - 34%, 30%, 36% - and he's on a super max with a no trade clause.  

Yup and he's a good fit...somewhere^*
*These statements do not reflect the opinions, beliefs, or expectations of a team that struggles to shoot the ball from deep.  Exclusions apply. Void where prohibited. If you experience any of the following symptoms: struggles against zone defense, lack of shooting in your frontcourt, streaky at best shooting, old-school midrange coaching - stop taking Beal immediately and consult a competent general manager.

[Wretch]

I'm also going to say this again...  Don't separate the performance of this team from deep and my contention that DJM has to shoot better from the perimeter.  This is an entirely different conversation for me with better shooting across the board or an upgrade (adept distance shooter) in the starting lineup.

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

@TheNorthCydeRises@Final_quest 

how the hell do we justify locking in a starting SG on a max contract on 34% 3FG?

Valid question.  I'm not sure you can.  

Reminder that we got rid of a guy who could shoot almost like Klay Thompson to bring Murray to the team because he could do a lot of other things.  Mainly it was creating offense with the ball and better defense.  Now we are saying we also want him to be Klay Thompson. 

He can get you 20 points, 6 assists, and 6 rebounds.  Not sure it's fair to also ask him to shoot like Klay.  He did show signs of improvement, but kind of slumped the last part of the season.