The Hawks without JT.....

[Diesel]

I don't think that JT is a part of our longterm plans. I think had it not been for Contractual concerns that JT would not have been kept last year. I think that Knight might opt to move JT this year...

I have already explored moving JT to Charlotte and that's a possibility.

Another is JT/#17 to Phoenix for #7/Jahidi White.

I think many people have gotten off track with the Kobe talk. I don't think Kobe will be in Pheonix like that. I think it's more likely that Phoenix will go after Nash.... However, seeing that they have Joe Johnson, it's possible that Phoenix would go after JT....

JT/Johnson/Marion/Stoudamire/Dampiere....

That's a team that can do some damage...

What can the Hawks do with #6 and #7...

Sounds like Smith and Gordon.

[Blunt91]

I am cool with that. Some on this board say Gordon and harris are just JT clones but both of those guys already play better defense than JT, that alone is good in my book.

[thecampster]

Would you trade JT straight up for Chris Wilcox?

[chillzatl]

I mean lets face it. JT is NOT a top level PG in this league. He's not even a top level SG in this league. He's a 2nd tier player in every regard. If the opportunity is there to move him for talent, young or old, we have to explore it.

At the same time. I think everyone needs to get off of this "draft two top 10 players" bandwagon. It is a sure fire recipe for failure.

Look at the teams over the last 4-5 years that have taken two high ranked prospects in the same or even consecutive years... FAILURE. Chicago..failure. Clippers...failure. Golden State...Failure. Washington...failure. The only team to successfully do it is Cleveland.. But look what they did it with. Lebron and Boozer. They are the exception, not the rule.

We need to draft the best player we can and then trade pics for experienced vets and quality role players. Anything else is tempting fate and begging for another failed 5 year rebuild.

You cannot build a winner by loading up on young, high ranked draft picks.

[Diesel]

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The only team to successfully do it is Cleveland.. But look what they did it with. Lebron and Boozer. They are the exception, not the rule.

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Uhm... Boozer was a second rounder.

Now... Back to your point.....

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I think everyone needs to get off of this "draft two top 10 players" bandwagon. It is a sure fire recipe for failure.

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Come on Chillz... Tell me you can reason a little better than that... The draft depends on the strength of the draft class.....

First to put your argument out...

What about when Memphis drafted Gasol and Battier?

What about Golden State getting Richardson, Murphy, and Arenas?

What about Chicago drafting Elton Brand and Ron Artest?

What about Milwaukee draftin Dirk Nivitski and Pat Garrity?

The draft is a crap shoot. Bottom line... However, you have better chance to get a better player when:

1. You have more opportunity

2. You have good scouting.

3. You are surrounded by fools.

All indications are that this will be a better than average draft class. It's not as strong as the 1999 class that JT came out of but it's not as weak as Kwame's class. If we get 2 lottery picks... We have two chances to get quality players.

[Diesel]

I would do it if they swapped pick position with us (all things remaining the same). What I mean is that we get 5, they take 6th.. I would do the trade.

Wilcox is a very athletic PF who still may turn out to be very good. He would fit what we needed. The fact that we would be picking 6th lets me know that Howard is not available. Under those circumstances, I would take the Wilcox trade and draft either Livingston or Smith. Then the latter pick (if Humphries is gone) can be used on a PG like Vujacic.

[Wretch]

Is the foundation for success in the NBA. It isn't neccessarily the draft - therefor, throwing all your eggs in that basket is a mistake; however, it is the stars that carry the league. Wins, marketing, ticket sales, endorsements, merchandise, ratings...it all revolves around the Duncan's, Shaq's, Iverson's, Kobe's, and McGrady's of the league.

We don't have a star, or anything close to it. Obtaining a star is priority #1 for us and there is absolutely no way around it.

It's a very basic and simplistic way to look at things, but it is the truth. You get these cornerstones, and then you build around them. The big question is, how do you get them? Trades, free agency, and in the top of the draft - specifically the lottery.

There is no way we are going to be able to reel in star with the gutted team that we have left. Trades are out of the question. Free agency may be a legitimate route to take, but I am not holding my breath for Kenyon Martin or Kobe Bryant. How else are we going to find that star or stars that will give this team personality?

If you have the chance to take more than one top prospect in the NBA lottery, then you have to take it. It's not really fair to look Chi and GS as examples, if you are referring to 2001, because they each took 2 picks in the same weak draft. The Clippers are another bad example because...well, they're the Clippers ; all they know how to do is screw up drafts and rid themselves of talent. Cleveland drafted Boozer and James in two separate drafts, and Booz was a 2nd rounder. I'm not familiar with Washington's situation when they selected two top picks in the same year...

Still, I don't care how many times it has failed, the stars in this league are there for the taking in the lottery. If you have the chance to take a TJ ford and a Dwayne Wade...or Jason Richardson and Pau Gasol...or Ray Allen and Kobe Bryant

You've got to go for it. Quality Vets and mid-level FA's are a dime-a-dozen and available EVERY year. There are only a handful of stars available...if you have a good chance at picking up 2 in the draft lottery...then again, you go for it.

I'd love to come away from this draft with two top prospects.

[DominiqueWilkins]

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Another is JT/#17 to Phoenix for #7/Jahidi White.

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I like this as a Hawks fan, and it isn't that horrible for a Suns fan.

I would stay away from selecting Gordon, and maybe even Harris. We can always go after a point guard in the later rounds, as there is so many.

Don't get me wrong we need a point guard, and the position is so critical. I just want us to have a solid point guard, and I don't trust Gordon.

I like some of the other points that will be in the draft, but with two lottery picks I would select Josh Smith/Dwight Howard. I doubt our pick or the Suns pick would get us into position to select Dwight Howard without trading up.

Hopefully Knight can ship JT out of town, and aquire some young talent or picks in return. I would almost give JT up for nothing, because I don't see him being in the Hawks plains, and I don't want him in our plains.

[JTFan31]

JT in college was also known as a good defender. So by saying Gordon and Harris are good defenders mean nothing to me. Alot of players are great defenders in college but in the NBA is a totally different ballgame.

[chillzatl]

none of those players became anything TOGETHER.

Gasol is a star, Battier is a role player...

Richardson was the star, Arenas was up and coming but he had to bolt to find the freedom he felt he needed to become great...

How long did artest and brand play together? Artest was anything but a star in those days...

Nivitski and Garrity? Garrity is a star? since when?

You validated my point perfectly....

If we had two top 10 picks and we used them both, we are essentially throwing one of them away. You can bank on it! One of those two players will fail to realise their potential and will either 1. be considered a bust or 2. leave and become the star they couldn't be along side that "other player".

It's is a defeatest attitude to say "we have two chances to get a good player". Why waste a pick? A pick that could be used in a trade for quality players, on the defeatest notion that if we have two chances, MAYBE we can get it right?

The modern history of the NBA has proven time and again that you cannot develop two young stars at the same time and have them both become top quality players.

Lets face it, top 10 picks are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ROLE PLAYERS!

[chillzatl]

All you are getting is two players with STAR POTENTIAL. It is a pipe dream to think that both of those players, while still on the same roster, will mature and reach their full potential. Teams have tried and failed for far too many years now.

Why turn a blind eye to what the NBA has been for more than 15 years now? Why throw away the pick when it has been proven time and again that it won't work.

Do you have so little faith in Knights ability to make a good pick?

If so... why would you have any more faith that this team could do everything that those two young egos need to develop to their full potential?

[Wretch]

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All you are getting is two players with STAR POTENTIAL.

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Yes. You are getting Webber, Magic, Nowitski, Zeke, Jordan, Bird, Barkley, Robinson, Duncan, Bibby, Iverson, Kobe, McGrady, LBJ, Melo, Wade, Vince Carter, Nique, type POTENTIAL. I take that kind of potential over dime-a-dozen journeyman talent any day of the week.

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It is a pipe dream to think that both of those players, while still on the same roster, will mature and reach their full potential.

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It most certainly is not. Perhaps if you were drafting a lottery pick and a late lottery pick you might be fighting the odds. But given two lottery picks in a decent draft crop...it is hardly a dream to envision developing two prospects like Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, LBJ, Melo, or Hinrich. It'd be More like a dream come true for any GM in this league.

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Teams have tried and failed for far too many years now.

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What you are referring to is teams relying COMPLETELY on the draft. There are only two teams that I can think of that took that route: the Bulls and the Clippers. I would love to be in the Bulls position right now with the potential that they have. It is still WAY too early to say that they've failed. The Clippers have simply failed to make wise decisions. Instead of duplicating front court talent, and allowing talent to walk away, they should have been making deals. The Clippers need a better GM.

Everyone else uses a combination of trades, FA's, and the draft. We have nothing left to trade. We will be hard pressed to simply attract talent to our franchise without overpaying for it; and as far as marquee talent goes, it'll take a VERY shrewd plan and a distinct twist of fate to land it. Especially this year.

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Why turn a blind eye to what the NBA has been for more than 15 years now? Why throw away the pick when it has been proven time and again that it won't work.

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Huh? I'm not really understanding this here... But what has worked for the NBA is a combination of DRAFTING WELL, lucking up on FA's, and making shrewd trades. We've got very little room to manuever anywhere but in the draft.

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Do you have so little faith in Knights ability to make a good pick?

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Just the opposite. If there is anything that I have full confidence in BK, it is the draft. I can only IMAGINE what he could do given two lottery picks. Imagine if he had the #1 and the #5 or #6 last year...

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If so... why would you have any more faith that this team could do everything that those two young egos need to develop to their full potential?

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This team is headed in a new direction under new management. Most importantly, we will make our 1st lottery (and only our 2nd 1st round) selection in over 13 years WITHOUT PETE BABCOCK IN CHARGE.

[Diesel]

Good coaching will figure out how we play them and who becomes the "Star".

I'm sorry but I don't care if we get a Star and a very good role player... The point is that with more opportunity, we get a better chance at getting a star. What you suggest is that we limit our opportunities... That's foolish.

[chillzatl]

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Yes. You are getting Webber, Magic, Nowitski, Zeke, Jordan, Bird, Barkley, Robinson, Duncan, Bibby, Iverson, Kobe, McGrady, LBJ, Melo, Wade, Vince Carter, Nique, type POTENTIAL. I take that kind of potential over dime-a-dozen journeyman talent any day of the week.

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You take any two of those player and let them start their careers together, one of the two will not develop into the star they become. You can bank on it.

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It most certainly is not. Perhaps if you were drafting a lottery pick and a late lottery pick you might be fighting the odds. But given two lottery picks in a decent draft crop...it is hardly a dream to envision developing two prospects like Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, LBJ, Melo, or Hinrich.

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Ok, if it's not a dream, tell me of a team in the last 15 years who has done it.. Can you think of one?

You guys continue to fight and ignore the simple truth. TOP 10 PICKS HAVE EGOS, EGOS THAT CLASH. You put two egos like that on the same team and expect them to BOTH develop into stars, you are begging for failure.

As I said in another post, TOP 10 PICKS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ROLE PLAYERS. You take two and you are guaranteeing that one of them will either leave and become a star or stay and become a role player.

If top 10 picks are supposed to be stars. Why would you dream of putting two young guys in a position where one of them, by way of natural selection, is going to take a back seat to the other?

[Wretch]

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You take any two of those player and let them start their careers together, one of the two will not develop into the star they become. You can bank on it.

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You are not using logic here. You're using opinion based on what, I have no idea. First of all, there have been guys drafted only a couple of years apart that have completely turned around franchises.

Miami is not in the playoffs without Dwayne Wade and all those guys.

Cleveland doesn't come close without LBJ and Boozer.

Denver is NOT the same team without Nene and Melo.

What is Phoenix without Marion and Amare?

The Mavericks are a joke without Nowitski and Finley.

Orlando would have never played in the Championship game without Shaq and Penny.

What would Chicago have been without Pippen and Horace grant (acquired in the same year) or Jordan drafted just 3 years earlier?

Detroit drafts Allan Houston in 1993 and Hill in 1994, two years later, they're in the playoffs.

I could go on and on. These players could have all been drafted in the same year, the results would have been the same or better. It isn't how closely they are drafted together that determines success. If that were the case, teams would wait 4 or 5 years between draft picks to give each one time to develop on their own...that's just absurd. There is no rule of thumb saying you can't take two players in one draft, or even one year apart. You put Melo and LBJ on the same team, and there is no way that one of them becomes a "role player." That draft picks have turned out that way has NOTHING to do with how closely they were drafted together and EVERYTHING to do with their potential.

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Ok, if it's not a dream, tell me of a team in the last 15 years who has done it.. Can you think of one?

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There aren't many teams that have been able to come out of the lottery with TWO top prospects. So there isn't much room to debate here. The Clippers are one team, but for the umpteenth time...the Clippers have BAD MANAGEMENT. They took Olawakandi over Bibby and have been selecting front court players in every draft that I can think of for the passed decade; They even traded for yet another ESTABLISHED frontcourt player in Elton Brand.

Besides, the fact of the matter is, most of the teams that have improved over the years have done more than just draft players. Look at a team like Denver. They drafted all those players, but they signed some guys too. Are they the same team without Boykins and Andre Miller? Maybe, maybe not...but certainly without Carmelo and Nene, they are still a lottery team. And they've STILL got Nikoloz Tskitishvili who could turn out to be something good.

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You guys continue to fight and ignore the simple truth. TOP 10 PICKS HAVE EGOS, EGOS THAT CLASH. You put two egos like that on the same team and expect them to BOTH develop into stars, you are begging for failure.

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If you have two egotistical players, then you might have problems. However, that is true even with veteran players. All guys that come in through the draft don't neccessarily have egos. What are you basing this on??? Shaq and Penny didn't have problems taking that young team to the finals. Pippen, Jordan, and Horace grant didn't have problems. Houston and Hill led that team to the playoffs. I don't see any ego problems down in Miami. Ego didn't stop the Nuggets turnaround. And yeah, inflated egos are the Clippers' biggest problem.

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As I said in another post, TOP 10 PICKS ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ROLE PLAYERS. You take two and you are guaranteeing that one of them will either leave and become a star or stay and become a role player.

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The ONLY way that I agree with you here is if you draft the SAME KIND OF PLAYER IN THE SAME OR SUCCESSIVE DRAFTS. That is EXACTLY what the Clippers have been doing. They passed Bibby over for Olowakandi and in every draft that I can think of, they have drafted forwards.

Guys that play the same (post players/wing players/shooters) might have problems sharing the same shots. But that's true regardless of whether they are drafted in the same draft or a couple years apart.

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If top 10 picks are supposed to be stars. Why would you dream of putting two young guys in a position where one of them, by way of natural selection, is going to take a back seat to the other?

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This is just silly! How in the world does being selected in the same draft, perhaps a few spots apart, have ANY kind of bearing on who's team it's supposed to be? You mean if Chicago drafted Sam Bowie and Michael Jordan, that somehow the team belongs to Bowie and 3 or 4 years later, Michael's game doesn't develop because he's deferring to "the man."

???

You're gonna have to explain this one to me...

Because first of all, you RARELY know who the stars of ANY draft are going to be. You simply draft on potential. Unlike any other sport, there is a DISTINCT shift in talent between the upper and lower part of the NBA's draft. You can even narrow it down specifically to the top 13 picks - the future of the NBA is right there. That is a very small window and if you can reach into there twice, you have the potential to nab two future cornerstones. It is really that simple.

Secondly, in the past, there was a problem with the way rookies signed contracts. There was no rookie scale and after 3 years, there was no way to stop a guy from leaving and joining any team he wanted. This was fixed only 5 years ago. In today's draft, the franchise has much more control over the investments made in the draft - and that will make a world of difference.

[Wretch]

And there's nothing to say that we don't acquire TWO stars. Ego has nothing to do with drafting. The NBA is nothing BUT guys, creme of the crop, playing with ego. It is a coach's responsiblity to manage that. And truthfully, the only way to build a successful team is to find a coach that can manage ego - whether it be vets or rookies.

[Blunt91]

I started thinking that maybe we shouldn't trade JT until we see who we can get as a FA this offseason. Let's face it if Terry is traded Stephen Jackson isn't going to sign with us and you could completley forget about Kobe signing with us. We have to decide what we want. 1. If we traded JT to land Howard we wouldn't win but about 20 to 25 games because the best FA we could hope for would be Jamal Crawford. No Kobe, Kenyon Martin, Jacks, or even Q.RIch would want to play here. Don't bring up the fact that if we get a good coach top level players would want to come here. Byron Scott is the only flashy name coach out there and it seems he is headed for New Orleans. Eric Musselmen, Macleod, Del Harris and even Fratello will not attract Free Agents. Heck most of the young guys in the NBA 20 to 27years old aren't even familiar with Fratello and his accomplishments. It all depends on how long we want to wait and rebuild, if we give up Terry before we can lure top FA here we are looking at a 3 to 4year window,if we keep Terry for at least another year we might be competive in a couple of years because we would have used JT as the only attraction for a Kobe or Martin to come play for this team.

[Weez]

one: there egos are much larger when they're declaring out of HS. They feel that they have to prove that they're the man, that they belong in the league...to make their mark. Then you want to tell them, and which one btw, to calm things down, play mroe of a team game...on a team of mostly rookie contract (ie first three years). it's simply a bad plan.

As for the whole JT issue. I'm been known to say it's time to cut bait with him. If you read my reasons on why to get Kobe, original post, the only real future JT could be truly illustrious in would be playing alongside Kobe, for whom I think JT would be the nera perfect backcourt mate.

Like everyone's said, it'd be nice to know what, if any shot would had with Kobe. I'd trade almost all of our other picks if he were assured, in order to land Okafor. Then blow a significant portion of the remaining money on KMart...despite my misgivings.

If you lined up JT/Kobe/Diaw/KMart/Okafor...well damn, that's a pretty good team. Even without KMArt, you could do ok by playing Okafor at the 4 and sign someone like Pryz to a shorter contract to be the big outlet starting center and rebounder, to hell with his short game.

But short of our getting Kobe in the offseason, it's time to trade JT. Yes, he plays well with Sura...and many claim to want Sura back. But how many want Sura back at a 3 year deal? cause that's what he's demanding, and sure to stick to his guns for a money-rich team that he's proved his worth to. With that injury history, I say no to him. And without him, we all know the prospects of running JT at the point full-time (without Kobe). Won't work.

Thus bye bye to Sura and JT (most likely).