The fat lady is warming up humbled Lakers

[thescout5]

Seeing the Pistons take apart an elite team supposely maybe the Eastern conference will get some respect now.The Pistons have many tall athletic players and Hamilton who can fill it up at shooting guard a Billups who can nail 3 pointers. I never thought I would see a team take the Lakers out of there game.If anything can be said maybe other teams in the league can now figure out how to beat the lakers of course you need the players but slowing the ball down does prove advantageous.

The Lakers as we know them I predict will have major changes leading with either Bryant or O Neal (probably Bryant) changing uniforms which is good for the league.I am tired of seeing the bragging lakers just to decide to turn it on when they want to.In this series they are being humbled by a team that plays great defense and doesn't have the egos the lakers do.Still one more game never count out the fakers but looks dim!

[Wretch]

No matter how much people cry about ugly, low-scoring games. This series creates drama - and that makes sports all the more interesting. Each game becomes important, each possesion critical, and the waning minutes of each game have a profound impact on how the series plays out.

And should the Lakers storm back in game 5, the reaction of Laker fans (and sympathizers) will be all the more excited. Triumph in the face of adversity is always a good story and works better than stomping all over the competition.

This is just great for the NBA regardless of who comes out on top. Detroit has turned this into a series. I don't really care who wins, I would just like to see the Lakers play a little better and tighten these games up. Detroit has been the better team, but the Lakers are just coming apart at the seams. Regardless, I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad that this isn't the Spurs and the Pistons.

Could you imagine the blog-fest...

[Plainview1981]

Can't believe I actually enjoyed this ugly game tonight.lol

Lakers are done.

[Diesel]

Where is he???

This is a small taste of what happens to Kobe without Shaq. Larry Brown is using the Kobe rules. Let Shaq get his, focus a constant double on Kobe. What happens, Kobe shooting up all kind of airballs... It's brilliant Coaching. LB understood that Kobe gets an easy ride with Shaq being the focus of every defenses attention so he decided to let Shaq get his points and shut down Kobe...

The other part of the plan is the continuous beat down of Gary Payton. No need in calling Payton the Glove any longer. Every time he's on the floor, Billups or Rip is looking to go right past him. Then there's Wallace, he's posting up everybody but Shaq.

LB is taking advantage of every Laker weakness. Starting with their laziness on the break.

Malone and Payton may not get rings?

[chillzatl]

There's a lot more to it than your prohpetic "see what kobe does without shaq" nonsense. There's a lot more to it than any one players bad games...

There is not a player in the game today, hell, maybe in the history of the game, that would find success in Kobe's shoes right now. That includes Jordan...

What LB and the pistons have done is make this a one man team, shaqs team. He is the only person they are willing to allow to score. It's not just Kobe. They aren't giving ANYONE ELSE a shot either.

They're also throwing more than a double team at Kobe. I'm not sure what games you've been watching. But every time he touches the ball there is AT LEAST 3 guys waiting on him. They put a man in front of him and another to each side of him..basically trapping him. Sometimes there are four guys waiting for him...

They are able to do this because the Lakers are a two man team. They don't have anyone else to worry about. Mainly because Malone is gimped and Payton is scared to shoot the ball.

Not to overdefend Kobe myself. He's stunk it up. HE's been frustrated into taking bad shots..simply because that is all he can get. He knows he can't pass it to someone else because he doesn't have another teammate that can score. So he's forcing it. Doesn't matter who you put out there in his place though. You would see the same results.

Great finals though, one for the ages.

[Diesel]

These last few games of the relentless defense that Detroit has shown toward Kobe is just an example of what all these other great scoring SGs (that don't have Shaq) face.

When you coach a basketball team and the other team has a great player, what do you do?? You formulate a gameplan to stop him. Kobe hasn't had this approach taken with him until now and it's very successful.

Quote:

---

There is not a player in the game today, hell, maybe in the history of the game, that would find success in Kobe's shoes right now. That includes Jordan...

---

The truth of the matter is that Jordan did face this... In every playoff series. He played against the Original Bad Boys. He played against the Legendary Boston Celtics. He played against the most Physical NY Knick teams that have played since the 70's. The Pacers! These Pistons are a good defensive team, but they don't hold a candle to these other defensive teams that I have mentioned.

I mean.. It's not worth it to talk about the Bad Boys... So what about the Knicks: Ewing, Oakley, Mason, Starks, & Jackson... You don't get much more Physically intimidating or defensive than that. Now look at the Pacers:

Smits, Davis, Davis, Miller, and Jackson... Another Physical team.

Jordan played against those teams and their gameplan was ... Stop Jordan... Until Chuck Daily came up with the idea... Since we CANT stop Jordan easily, Stop the rest of the Bulls... (The Jordan Rules).

[Diesel]

Not only is Detroit killing Kobe... But they are winning because of the lack of TEAM... LB saw the lack of Chemistry and exploited it. He knows that Kobe and Shaq really don't like each other. He knows that Both have Egos the size of LA. He knows that Malone and Payton really haven't fit in. If Malone were 100%, the results wouldn't differ as much. Because Brown has tapped into the weakness that the Lakers are a bunch of individuals. So yeah, when Kobe gets the ball and there are three defenders around him, he puts up CRAP... It's not because he can't pass out of the double/triple, it's because he wants to be the man and right now is the goat.

Watch the games. Shaq is as dominant as Shaq can be....But there are times when they go away from Shaq. None of the guys on the Lakers are truly unselfish. I mean, it's all good when you're up by 7 and Kareem Rush is 5 for 5 from three. Sure it's easy to be unselfish then. But how about when you're down by 5 and everybody but Shaq has bad numbers.

The other thing is that deep down, I think that Kobe doesn't want Shaq to win another MVP. Why else do they go from Shaq to Kobe putting up Junk....

gentlemen, we're watching the break up of the Lakers.... Give Lindsey Hunter his Ring and credit.

[emeans]

Dumars should get executive of the year. Even though he didn't draft Carmelo, he has made the moves to potentially make them NBA champions (with the help of the Atlanta Hawks).

I really like this Detroit Piston team. They are unselfish and they play great defense without the egos. There are really no true superstars like Shaq and Kobe and they are still getting it done.

Kudos to the Pistons!!!

[Blunt91]

It was nice to see Rasheed have a good game. I know he was only a Hawk for one game but I still have love for all former Hawk players who go on to better themselves. The Turnaround jumper from 18feet out is nearly unstoppable when Sheed gets it going. I still think SHeed is a top20player in the league but he needs to cut down on the 3pointshots and play under the basket more. Rasheed said they didn't double him in this game like the others so he took advantage of it. The Lakers don't have an answer for Raheed Netither Malone, Medvedenko or Deaven George can guard him. Look for the Lakers to double him in the next game but only to get burned by Billups. To me there is as much pressure on the Pistons to win the next game as it is the Lakers. They don't want to go back to L.A. with the Lakers gaining confidence after winning the game to extend the series. BTW I think the Pistons would do well to pickup someone like Dermarr Johnson for his 3point shooting. I was thinking those 3pointers Tayshuan Prince was missing Dermarr would have hit and he isn't that bad of a defender as well.

[JTFan31]

I agree with Diesel here. Yes Kobe plays and moves alot like Jordan, but there is one thing that separates Jordan from the rest. Jordan made his teammates better, Jordan was a leader, Jordan played under control and everything look so easy, Jordan was unstoppable......Kobe is none of this.

Yes Larry Brown has a great game plan, but this game plan would of not stop Jordan. I saw it Jordan in the playoffs against the Pistons, Celtics, Pacers, Knicks and they practically tried and used these same game plans and didnt work. Sorry Chillz but Jordan is at a totally much higher level than Kobe.

[Wretch]

Michael Jordan was the most complete player in the history of the game. That is what made him so good. There was nothing that he didn't or couldn't do well. He could hit the shot, from any angle, from anywhere on the court first of all...but he had to develop that shot. He did and he perfected it. Before that, he was a dribbler and a penetrator. He's good in the post, behind the arc, getting into the lane...nobody could stop him. And if he were having an off night, he would beat you doing something else.

He was an all-defensive 1st teamer, he could get into guys' game and their heads. He played team defense, individual defense, transition defense...didn't matter. If he wasn't scoring, he would rebound, hustle, and dig in deeper. And when they threw 2 or 3 guys at him, he would find open guys...not just people spotting up either - but guys cutting, guys posted up behind a tricky passing angle...

Michael Jordan has gone up against some of the toughest defensive schemes. He beat them because he could do EVERYTHING. His teammates knew it and were ready to play off of him; and there was nothing really special about any of his teammates - except Pippen and Rodman.

You put Jordan out there with this Lakers team...WITH SHAQ???? and this series gets ugly from the game one tip.

[Diesel]

I'll say this... Jordan didn't start off complete. Jordan started off as an awesome scorer and he added to his game year by year. Some believe that Kobe will do the same and say that Kobe is in fact ahead of where Jordan was.

Well, he may be ahead of Jordan at the same age... But only by virtue of Shaq. Give Kobe the same team that Jordan had and Kobe would not have 1 ring or have gone far into the playoffs.

Jordan got to the point that he got to because of determination and loss. Jordan had to be humiliated by the bad boys in order to go to the next level. Jordan had to score 63 and still lose to the Celtics in order to get to the next level. Jordan had to spend a yr playing PG before he learned how to incorporate all his teammates into the game. Jordan had to be physically punished by the Knicks on every occassion in order to get to the next level. Otherwise, Jordan's career would have ended like Nique's career. No rings, but damn he was talented.

When you see Kobe, do you really see progress from year to year. Aside from his first 2 years, has Kobe gotten any better. Has he become any more of a team player. Or is he just another stat stuffer.

Many guys can't do what Jordan did.

Tmac... Will not follow Jordan's footsteps. He's very gifted, but he's crying for help, claiming he don't understand how to play against certain defenses. Not advancing. He lacks the determination.

Vinny C will not follow Jordan's footsteps. He's changed his game from being a dunker to being a three point shooter... That's good. However, he doesn't exhibit the heart of a champion.

In today's game, there are only 3 persons who remotely seem destined to be like Jordan.

King James.

Dwayne Wade.

Carmello Anthony.

It doth not yet appear if one will follow, but these are the guys to watch.

[CHORO44]

Please don't compare Kobe and MJ. Kobe is super talented but he just doesn't stack up to MJ at all in my eyes. MJ had the will and the desire to go along with the talent. Kobe is a blessed athlete but his mental make up leaves something to be desired.

[Wretch]

What I'm saying is that Jordan would beat this Pistons defense and why.

[Wretch]

That's exactly what happened to MJ. He took on different aspects of the game. He made it a point to be good at everything he did - like a genetic super soldier or something *LOL*. Though it wasn't just the situations he went up against, it was his will to overcome them and the knowledge of what he had to do.

[Diesel]

Right....

That determination is something. I would like to see what Wade, Mello, and James have in the years to come. For instance, Mello willed Syracuse to the championship. Can he do more for Denver. Wade got better as the season progressed and then he blew up in the playoffs. Will he go farther or will he pull a Caron Butler.

The only 3 players that I have heard desire to be the best in the NBA are: Stoudamire(Amare), KG, and Howard(Dwight). I like that kind of confidence.

[Weez]

it's interesting to see you finally admit that TMac lacks the desire.

Kobe has forced things a lot in this series, and often not come up with the desired results. The two biggest things that I've noticed about Kobe's game in this series:

a) his handles aren't quite what MJ's were. a minor, slight decrease...but when he goes behind his back, directly into a move...he dribbles the ball too high, slightly out of control. Don't get me wrong, they're superb, and he's almost always thinking a step ahead, knowing what he's going to do with the ball/move planned, but it's not quite the same.

Which leads me to the next point...his hands. They're simply smaller (thus not allowing him quite the ball control). This was most apparent last night, when he had a ferocious dunk in transition with the give and go off Walton...but when going up, he stabilized the ball, in mid air (a great thing) with his off hand. Jordon wouldn't need to do this, as he could palm the ball easier.

My retort to this is Kobe's own quote though: in the third quarter, getting frustrated at teammates missing shots or not taking them (esp. Malone, wide open)...he walked to Phil and said, "what do I do?" He was passing to teammates, out of double's or realizing that he didn't have a good shot...and they did nothing with it. There's no Pip to pass to, and Sheed's just floating around, preventing many passes to Shaq (while not guarding Malone...no need). What does he do?

I agree that MJ wouldn't have performed this way, for the series...but I throw it back at you...when Shaq's out there, and Kobe has one or two bad trips...the team generally abandons him, they have to go back to Shaq or the others. It's why I think Kobe needs his own team. He's not allowed/not forced to overcome the adversity, cause the team has another 1a option.

Finally, as you mentioned, it wasn't Kobe not going to Shaq...he's tried that, often successful, throughout the series. It's the team not going to Shaq. You said that yourself. It's not really Kobe not going to Shaq. But D, you dodged this before, what do you want Kobe to do? Be selfish or back off almost completely, always defer to Shaq?

PS - MJ was never, in his career, a 3pt threat. He didn't take them that much...though did have the famous shrug in the game that he went six for six in (against the Knicks I believe).

[Wretch]

Peja, Reggie Miller (my personal long distance favorite), Bird, or Hodges...? No, he was no more dominant behind the arc, in relation to those guys, as he was dominant with his passing in relation to guys like Magic or Kidd. So if you are comparing him to the great 3pt shooters, no he wasn't a threat in that regard.

Though as far as knocking it down, yes. He still did it well. Jordan was good from all over the court. You couldn't give him space anywhere. He took plenty from 20' on in and they couldn't stop his jumper, but they still repected him behind the arc.

Most importantly, Jordan was clutch. If it's a 3 pointer that's needed and he's the guy taking it there aren't many people in the building that don't think it has a better than average chance of falling.

[Plainview1981]

Well what I said is that Kobe does play at MJ's level IN

SPURTS/SOME GAMES but he hasn't taken the next step

to make other guys better. It seems to be a HUGE step

that he really isn't ready to make at this point. Two

more things need to happen before Kobe can be compaired

to MJ....Needs to give the kind of effort he gave in game

2 on a consistant basis(WHich I don't think anybody can

do) and make the team better. Honestly, those are pretty

big steps.

[Plainview1981]

I pretty much hated MJ because you just know he's going

to get the better of you. I remember anytime the game

was close at the end of the game my insides would turn

because I just knew he was going to come out on top.

I hope Kobe or LaBron does approach that level one day

because the league needs all the help it can get right

now.