Forget Sura and sign Jon Barry

[Blunt91]

The more I think about it I would rather have Jon Barry to a 1year deal around million dollars than have Bob Sura to a 3year deal for 10million. Barry might not have the dribbling skills of Sura but he can still handle to ball and play in an uptempo offense. Barry would not take away playing time from guys like Childress or Hansen as Sura would. I see JB starting along side Terry and playing around 20mpg. By the end of the season Childress will have had time to adjust to the NBA game and would be starting 2guard while Barry comes off the bench as a sharpshooter. Dampier has said he wanted to see us upgrade our roster and while Barry isn't a star he has been around the league for a while and other players respect his toughness and his shooting ability. We don't have to wait till august 15th to make a decision on whether to keep Travis Hansen. I would keep Hansen and sign Jon Barry as well. Let's stop standing still and get some signings did.

[Traceman]

First of all, who says Barry will come here for $1M right now? He has already said that he would sign with us "if we make him an offer he likes." That tells you right there he is looking for more than the $1M vet exception.

Second, who says Sura is going to get 3 yrs/$10M. That number surfaced because we here on this board have talked about it. No one else has offered Sura such a deal or he would have likely already taken it. Right now, I keep hearing his name associated with MIA and their $1.6M exception. If he is considering that, why couldn't we get him with a deal starting at $2M to $2.5M a season? He likes it here and he would DEFINITELY get a lot of PT if not start here.

Third, Sura is just better than Barry at this stage of their careers. Why not hold out to see if we can get the better player for our price? Just where is Barry going to go anyway?

Finally, I seriously doubt that signing Sura will have an impact on whether or not we pick up Hansen's option. We are talking $620,000 for Hansen. If Billy wants to keep him, he'll figure out a way to do it.

[Vol4ever]

Sura is 5 times the player Barry is. We had Barry here before. I'm not against bringing him back but don't ever compare him to Sura!

[Blunt91]

I did not say that Jon Barry was better than Bob Sura I just didn't like the fact that Sura played alot of minutes last year minutes that Boris Diaw could have gotten. Why do you think Glover asked to be waived because he couldn't get any PT. I just don't want to see Childress, Smith, Diaw or Hansen's minutes taken away because of Sura and Terry. If Sura is brought back then I see Childress playing more at the small forward spot than at shooting guard because tha's were Terry will be playing although on paper his is the starting PG. How things are going we probably won't get Sura or Barry. I think we need to think about trading Diaw or a resigned Hansen for what we need more and that is a pointguard.

[dj_me]

What's funny is that I'm not sure that we have room on our team for either. We have too many young players that we want to develop and, while I'm not against re-signing Sura, it would slow their development. If we were to sign Sura and Dampier...

JT / Diaw / Ivey

Sura / Hansen / Donta

Diaw / J-Chill / CC

Harrington / J-Smooth / CC

Dampier / Collier / Hendu

Not bad. We seem to have depth, even though it is comprised of rookies and sophmores. Thing is, can J-Chill be our backup SF for a time and can J-Smooth leap into PF so soon? I CANNOT BELIEVE how many players we have that can play multiple roles on our team! It's so exciting!

[Traceman]

If we try to rebuild by simply giving the young guys all the minutes, we will be perpetually stuck on losing because those young guys just don't know how to win yet. The Clippers and Bulls are perfect examples of this. Both teams looked good going into the last two seasons on paper but neither did anything because although they had young talent, they didn't know how to win. To make matters worse, some of that young talent seemed to regress as losing took over their confidence. I don't want to see that happen to our young guys, rather, I'd like for them to get confidence by playing with veterans who know how to play (and win). Simply throwing Ivey, Chill, Diaw and Smooth on the floor together for long stretches so that they can get game experience is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. I'd rather see them out there with veterans who know how to play so that every mistake they make (and they will make PLENTY)is not magnified. There will certainly be times that we can put a bunch of young guys on the floor together but we need vets like Sura, Barry, etc who can lead when the going gets rough.

[OGRat]

We don't need just any veterans though. We need a veterans at the key positions which I think are the PG and maybe PF/C. We need a PG who is able control the flow of the game and stabilize the team. A low-post threat provides an option when all else fails.

Anything outside of this only takes away from player development. I like Sura in that he is a creator, but I am not sure of his ability to control the flow of the game consistently. I like Barry's shooting, but that's it.

I think Charlie Ward may be a better option for us, in that he knows how to control the flow of the game, and he can shoot. We don't need anyone that is going to dominate the ball, just someone who can put it where it needs to be.

[TheDude]

essentially what you're saying is that Sura is better than Barry and that's why he'll take away playing time. with me, i'd rather have the better player on the team. isn't that the purpose?

plus Sura understands he's not a superstar so he'll be just as happy as Barry would with giving up some playing time.

[TnDawg]

If we go with this lineup, I believe we have 8 players who are under contract. That leaves Ivey, Donta, Damp, Hansen and Sura left to sign. If we throw in Pryz who I would rather keep over Hendu ( except for Hendu's cap space). Who will most likely go on IL, in order to sign them all? Or do we sacrifice one of our young players who we like for one reason or another, to sign one of the vets who's on their way out.

JT / Diaw / Ivey

Sura / Hansen / Donta

Diaw / J-Chill / CC

Harrington / J-Smooth / CC

Dampier / Collier / Hendu

[Traceman]

Charlie Ward couldn't even get minutes for SA last year when they were DESPERATE for PG help last year. They had to go with Ginobili and Jason Hart to back up Parker in the playoffs. I just don't see what Ward would bring to the table that is so special. He can occasionally knock down some 3's and he can run an offense fairly well(though he's not a creator). On the other hand, Sura can create, score and rebound.

As for player development, is it better to see the young guys get out there and get their confidence destroyed or to put them in situations where they have the best chance to be successful? Baptism by fire works for some but it can also destroy the confidence of young players. I want our young guys to play as much as they are capable of playing without hurting their confidence or feeling the pressure to produce. Every time I look at how Kwame Brown was handled by the Wizards I cringe. Even guys like KG and Kobe were brought along slowly and put into situations where they could be successful. The botom line for me is play them as much as they are ready for but don't put them in a situation where the media is caling them "busts" at the halfway point in the season. This rebuilding thing is a process and I hope we do it the right way.

[OGRat]

What about Sura not being able to get PT in Detroit?

Not that I am a Ward fan or anything, but he went to the Spurs in the middle of the season, and the other guys knew the offense better than he did.

Quote:

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I just don't see what Ward would bring to the table that is so special. He can occasionally knock down some 3's and he can run an offense fairly well(though he's not a creator). On the other hand, Sura can create, score and rebound.

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Who's skills do you really think we need for a rebuilding team? Ward can run an offense. I do not think he is as good a creator but he is a better shooter who won't turn the ball over as much. Ward offers more stability to the team.

As for development by throwing them in the fire, this is not what I am suggesting. I am only suggesting that we have enough SGs and SFs to not justify picking up another, especially if Hansen continues with the progress he's shown during the Summer League.

We need a true PG for this rebuilding, and JT and Sura ain't it.

[Weez]

the second part...perfectly stated.

[Diesel]

There are a few reasons why I like Charlie Ward as a BU PG than Sura as a Starter...

#1. Ward can run an offense.

What we saw in Sura last year was a guy who can create in the midst of choas. We had a bunch of guys playing for a contract at a time when the games meant very little. However, what did Woodson/Brown think about Sura in Detroit where the games did matter?

#2. Championship Experience.

Veteran Leadership is more than just being old. Sure Sura is OLD, but Sura has not seen 1 playoff game. Correct me if I'm wrong but in Cleveland and GS he didn't play in the playoffs. Ward has been to the finals with the Knicks. He knows what it means to play big games.

#3. Ward can be an outside threat.

Ward was shooting 42.8% from the arc last year when San Antonio picked him up. Ward has developed a good shooting touch from Outside. With all these players we will be developing, one thing we lack is outside shooting.

#4. Defense.

Ward plays smart defense.

#5. No real health issues.

Have you checked Sura's history. I'm scared to give him a three year deal. He has not been healthy for a whole season for the last 5 years. Comparitively, Ward has been an iron man. Sura makes Ward look like Cal Ripken.

#6. Cheap.

At his age, Ward would probably take close to the vet minimum with the presumption that he will get to play and will probably take it at less years. Sura has suggested a 3 yr deal worth over 8 million.

#7. Fits our need.

What we really need is a BU at PG. Vaughn looks to be going to NJ. All we have behind JT (who's not the best PG in the world) are rookies. We need somebody to come in who can run an offense. That's Ward. Sura on the other hand is a Sg. Dress him up as a PG all you like and Like GS found out, you will be disappointed.

#8. Won't disrupt development.

I liked your blurb on Kwame. I disliked the way he was mistreated too. However, that's not the same story. Unlike Washington with Jordan, we are not a team trying to get into the playoff this year. IN fact, our whole team from the GM on down are learning and developing on the Job. That means that it probably won't be a trial by fire if we play Childress at Starting Sg. In fact, it would be similar to what Chicago did with Hinrich last year. Let him develop with playing time. If we were a playoff team, I would agree with you. However, because we are not, I don't see the need in benching Childress until he's older and bleeding him in for 8 to 10 minutes a game while a Journeyman SG plays in front of him? Let's be real him. We picked Childress 6th int he draft. Since we are a rebuilding team, we have a duty to play him. Of course it comes down to the coach to know how to put him in and out of games to save his confidence... But I believe that confidence is built better by playing than by sitting on the bench staring out somebody else playing. Just look at what Sitting on the bench has done for Eddy Curry thus far?

[Sage11]

Nope..........BAD DEAL. I would not even consider it.

I say we should sign Sura and be done with it.

[OGRat]

While I think Sura could have a role on the team, I do not think it should be a the PG position, and definitely not a 3 yr $8 mil role.

[Packfill]

T agree that a veteran back-up point guard makes sense, but Ward is not the guy. He is toast. He has bad knees, is not a creative playmaker and could not beat out Jason Hart for playing time behind Tony Parker last year in San Antonio. San Antonio desperately could have used some solid veteran point guard play last year and Ward could not deliver. Based on that, seems to me he should hang up the high tops. I am not sure who else is out there but there has to be someone better.

[Traceman]

In fact, I will be surprised if he's NOT the starter when the season begins. What I don't think makes a lot of sense is to put say Childress, Ivey and Smooth in the starting lineup together and let them learn on the fly. It is going to be hard enough for then dealing with their own rookie mistakes but if all of them are starting, they will have to deal with each other's mistakes as well.

What I hope to see is a lineup of say:

Damp

Harrington

Diaw

Chill

JT

or

Pryz

Swift

Harrington

Chill

JT

start the season and then Smooth, Ivey, Hansen, etc come off the bench in the right situations.

As for Ward, he reminds me of a slightly better Jacque Vaughn. I'd much rather have a guy like Sura who can make things happen.

Actually, depending on what happens with other FA signings and on how ready Ivey is to contribute right now, bringing in both Ward AND Sura is not out of the question. Ward for the vet minimum for a season (2 at the most) would not upset me but not at the expense of Sura.

[Sage11]

What do you propose as a reasonable contract? 2.6 million is not cheap, but it is not a bloated deal for this guy for three years. Old, boroken up Berry would require as much or even more to sign with the team.

[OGRat]

I think that is a fair contract for Jon Barry/Sura... just not on our team. With all the swing men on our team (unless one of them gets traded or cut) we do not need another. What we really need is a true PG and some bigs.

We have Diaw, Hansen, Dante Smith, and Childress all who have promise and are slated to get minutes at the SG. I'd just hate to bring in Barry/Sura to take minutes and we end up giving up on the next Flip Murray.

What Barry would bring to the table is shooting, and some d-fense. What Sura would bring is creativity, and hustle. If what we are saying is that we can't get that out of the players that we have, then we need to get rid of at least one of them, before bringing Barry/Sura on board. I don't think this decision can be made until at least after training camp.

Sura/Barry's position (SG) is just not one we are week at, and I'd like to see the money go to fill the PG/PF/C positions.

[Weez]

Barry also brings more vet influence, something that shouldn't be overlooked by such a young team. For whatever reasons, I "respect," in terms of achievment/ability to be an influence those around him, Barry more than Sura; this is to say that I see Barry as more "powerful" than Sura, who's never played in the playoffs (?), has been less injury prone, etc.

Yes, Barry's mysterious shoulder ailments last season scare me a bit, but I've also seen him some on the Nuggets season following through NBA Insider Stuff..but his outside shooting, level headed play, etc...convince me that I'd offer him a 3 year deal (perhaps with a team option for the third) far before I'd do the same for Sura.