What is a PURE PG?

[Diesel]

Hell NO.

JV was probably the 2nd MOST Celebrated player to come out of KU and that include Pierce and Gooden.

1. Manning.

2. Vaughn

3. Pierce

4. Lafrentz

5. Gooden

6. Adonis Jordan.

7. Ostertag.

[chillzatl]

For a guy who likes to "debate" these things you sure ignore what is said and the context of what is said often enough.

I never said it was about having "good shooters" I mean you like to talk about "easy assists" How freaking hard is it for Andre Miller to get assists with guys like Murry, Person and Davis around him? HUH? Every one of those guys shots 45% or better and two of them shoot better than 40% from the 3pt line. Drive to the basket and kick? YEAH, that's a really hard assist there?!?? TRY AGAIN. Miller has some VERY GOOD shooting players around him. If anything that takes away from his league leading assist total. So while he doesn't have a great team, he sure has 3 really good guys around him to help tally up some EASY ASSISTS. NEXT.

And in typical Diesel fashion you ignore what I said just so you can have something to say. Though it's a pointless something. I never said JT got better as our players BECAME BETTER SHOOTERS. NO. That's is NOT what I said. I said he became better as the players around him learned to play together better and became smarter on the court.

It never was an excuse. THat's just something you've come up with so you can have something to say. What it is, is fact. As the players learned the game better, JT was able to get assists that earlier in the season he woudn't have gotten.

Why don't you try actually READING other peoples posts instead of skimming over them in a rush to make another of your own? Sometimes I read your half thought out replies and I wonder if you even bother to really read posts that aren't your own.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

I never said it was about having "good shooters" I mean you like to talk about "easy assists" How freaking hard is it for Andre Miller to get assists with guys like Murry, Person and Davis around him? HUH? Every one of those guys shots 45% or better and two of them shoot better than 40% from the 3pt line. Drive to the basket and kick? YEAH, that's a really hard assist there?!??

---

Actually, that is about the hardest of all assists. Hard Because:

1. The defense has to believe that you are a threat to score when you drive.

2. You have to have the confidence IN your shooters to pass off the ball.

3. YOUR Drive has to DRAW the defense away from your shooters...

What that really means is that IN that 2 to 3 second that you have drawn the defense, you as a PG has to be able to find out which one of your shooters are open and then pass the ball through traffic to them. You can hee and HAW all you like. That's Difficult.

Easy is the JT assist.

COme across the line. See SAR with his hand up. Pass him the ball, watch him do all the work getting a score.... Watch your assists go up.

Don't get me wrong... JT does drive. But how many times can you remember JT driving, drawing the defense, and passing off to the open man for the shot.

The other thing about Cleveland is that they Have a NON-Existent Low Post game NOW. As a rookie when Miller was Less experienced and Big Z was less injured, Miller made a living driving and dishing to Big Z and Kemp. Until Big Z got hurt, Cleveland was a good team that year. But now... There's no Kemp and Big Z is only a shell of what he used to be... BUT Miller still find open guys or he still CREATE opportunities.

THE DIFFERENCE

JT waits for something to happen.

Miller Makes something happen.

In reply to:

---

I never said JT got better as our players BECAME BETTER SHOOTERS. NO. That's is NOT what I said. I said he became better as the players around him learned to play together better and became smarter on the court.

It never was an excuse. THat's just something you've come up with so you can have something to say. What it is, is fact. As the players learned the game better, JT was able to get assists that earlier in the season he woudn't have gotten.

Why don't you try actually READING other peoples posts instead of skimming over them in a rush to make another of your own? Sometimes I read your half thought out replies and I wonder if you even bother to really read posts that aren't your own.

---

Again, let me point out the failing in your Logic.

You say that as the players around JT learned the game better.....etc etc.

However, here's my question.

with these same guys that JT plays with...

Why is it that Guys like:

MM, JV, Coles, and BK can come in here and run the offense and rack up assists while playing PG?

I mean, if it were the surroundings (other players gelling)..... Why is it that the surroundings do not effect them (MM, BK, Coles, JV)?

While you are contemplating how to answer that or if you want to deny the truth in that statement... Remember that the only reason we found out that JT could play as a SG is because Lon had BENCHED him in leiu of playing MM as the PG in JT's Sophomore year. Then injuries hit.

So... JT has been the receipient of good luck twice in his career:

1. Bibby decides to Leave Arizona.

2. JJ, Lrob, and Dion all get injured at the same time.

Funny.

[JTFan31]

FYI Diesel you cant pickup assists watching Reef do the work and score, because once you take one dribble is not an assist anymore. The easy assists are Miller's assists, he has Murray and Person spot up for jumpers......and then he drives and dish to the open guys. JT didnt have that.

[TomahawkChop]

Man that list above is all [censored], how can you have a list of pure PGs and not include Steve Francis? He's a Top 3 PG behind Kidd and Davis.

[Diesel]

Watching SAR do all the work simply means...

With his back to the basket, SAR feels the defender and within 2 steps scores on him.

The Miller assists are much harder. With no threat in the lane... Defenses do not immediate focus there attention on the low Post. So those assists are ultimately due to Miller being able to DRAW the defense.

To argue that the past into the post is an harder assist than the drive and dish tells me:

1. You don't play much Basketball.

2. You have never played PG.

[JTFan31]

FYI Diesel, once you take 2 dribbles, I did say 1 dribble, but I remember now is 2 dribbles, is not an assist anymore. If JT passes the ball to Reef in the post is a much harder assist, WHY? because most likely he will dribble at least 2 times. Once that happens is not an assist anymore. According to your logic, Diesel then Fisher will be avg 20 assist per game because he has Shaq in his team, so you make no sense about the Reef and JT analogy. And I do play basketball on my free time, played high school ball all 3 years.

[Guest]

The fact that Shareef averaged 21PPG is slightly overrated

in the fact we had no other options.Our 3rd leading scorer

averaged 9PPG!A 9PPG third option is bad unless you have

a 25PPG first option and we don't have one.

Shareef:21.2PPG

JT 19.3PPG

Toni Kukoc 9.9PPG(And even he missed alot of games)

Nazr 9.7PPG

We had two scorers last year...JT didn't have much of a

choice.Even when is shooting was off he had to continue

to shoot because Hanno/Strickland/Newble can't shoot

and score enough.

If I was reading the stats alone considering we had two guys

average double figures and neither of them in the top 10 in

scoring I'd think we averaged 89PPG.We need more talent.

Someone said Dermarr averaged 11.3PPG....Funny when some

body else steped up is when JT"s assist started climbing.What

did he average the last month???7.8PPG with Dermarr starting

to become a 3rd option type of scorer.

[BlackHawkDown]

Babs said we where going to make a big trade in September I pray it is for Battier or M.Miller either would be the third option necessary. JT can become a pure point he just needs someone to pass to think about it if he passes to anyone other than Reef,good luck.

[Traceman]

This is the dumbest post you have EVER made! EVER! JT would have NEVER been a 2nd round pick because he was clearly a very good player even when Bibby was there. Everyone knew how good he was. Coach Olsen even said that JT could have started on that team just as easily as Bibby did but that JT didn't have an ego and so he had no problem coming off the bench. But that's not what makes your post so ridiculous.

Using your logic, I guess Jason Williams would never have been a 1st round pick if William Avery had stayed around. I guess Battier or Dunleavy would never have been 1st round picks if Magette and Brand had stayed around. How DUMB is that? Jason Gardener has put up some impressive numbers at Arizona as a starter and yet he is not NEARLY as well thought of as a PG prospect as JT was even while Bibby was still there. Look at JV, he was one of the best PGs in the history of Kansas but he was a late first round pick. All great college players don't have what it takes to be great in the NBA. Scouts will see talent regardless of where that talent is. You really think they wouldn't have seen the talent of a guy who was capable of leading the PAC 10 in scoring, assists and steals? JT was a TOP 10 PICK! He was drafted higher than EVERY player on that Arizona team except Bibby. He was NEVER going to be a 2nd rounder. Give me a break!

Neither Conzo Martin, King Rice, Dante Calabria or Ward Turner should even be mentioned in the same breath as JT! What do you mean they were better than him as a 2nd rounder? He wasn't a 2nd rounder, they were! And like someone said above, JT as a 2nd rounder would have been one of the biggest draft day steals in recent NBA history.

[Guest]

Please......Please........Please.......

GET OFF OF JT'S NUTS! ARE YOU IN LOVE WITH HIM?

[Guest]

JT is a solid player. No doubt. But his numbers can be misinterpreted because last year he played for a team that was not that successful. I saw him play 3-4 times last year. Here in Sacramento we see like every game-either locally or nationally. I do remember when JT ate the Kings up on different occasions, but it's not like he plays with greatest players of all time. His averages will be higher if he plays on a crappy team. Plain and simple. If JT wants to win badly, then I suggest he demand a sign and trade next year when he becomes a free-agent. JT is tight though. He reminds me of a Marbury-type player, and he will continue to be successful where ever he plays in the future.

[Guest]

What do you want us to do?Talk about overachiever John Stockton

wannabe?Even he will be sad when he gets to the NBA and realizes

he doesn't have Stockton talent.It will be a big shock to him,but I

hope he is able to live with the fact he will not be as good as he

thinks he is.

Then I can tell ya to choke on it.You and"Hugehawkfan"is the same

person.Probably the dork I emailed about that absurd JT for Spree

deal?Are you the one that suggested us bring that rundown piece

of trash here so that the thugs in Atlanta might come see him play?

I can see all the degenerate teens and Atlanta Thugs paying to watch

his overrated a**.Every since the finals year the Knicks have been

on the decline.Now at best they trade him for Nick Van Exel when

Nick is a bigger loser than Spree is.Van Exel/Dice couldn;t get the

job done in Denver so what makes you think they will in NY?

[Diesel]

Name 3 BUs on any collegiate team that were picked in the first round?

Regaurdless of what you FEEL... Had Bibby stayed at Zona, Terry would have been a BU.

BTW, Battier played alongside Brand (and they were roommates).