lets have a pity party for Larry Brown

[chillzatl]

man, this guy has the nuts of a chihuahua. He goes off talking to other teams about jobs in the middle of the playoffs, stringing his team along, as he always has and then has the stones to get on TV and act sad about what happened? Give me a break. He's burned bridges everywhere he's been. I hope he goes to NY, he deserves that horrible team and its wretched fans.

[capstone21]

He is not a coach I would want to sign. He has a history of leaving teams after only a few years in both college and NBA.

[Plainview1981]

I wish he'd go away. Tired of hearing about the entire

deal... He is like a guy that hooks up with women

and bails on them when they get pregnant.

Tired of him.

[chillzatl]

from a coaching standpoint he's Lenny Wilkins. An oldschool coach who always does it HIS WAY, no matter what and is known for not developing young talent. He's good for turning a team around, getting wins. But not good enough to go all the way. The difference is that Lenny has good character and doesn't [censored] on his teams.

I was happy for him when he won his only title (the only one he'll ever get too). But now I wish he hadn't gotten it. Based on his character, he doesn't deserve it.

[AHF]

Brown is a significantly more talented coach than Wilkens, though. If you could transfer their coaching talent into someone loyal to a franchise and who wasn't so egocentric then I'd much rather have Brown than Wilkens.

[detroitdave]

It would have been so easy for Larry to take the high road.

He could have said that he wasn't able to guarantee his health to the satisfaction of the Pistons (which is what he'd been saying for months with that whole Mayo Clinic routine), so he understood their decision and appreciated the opportunity. But instead Larry let everybody else handle his disinformation campaign ... his wife, his shyster agent, his pet sportswriters.

Pistons fans knew it was a one-night stand when they hired him, but we didn't expect him to be friggin' Glenn Close.

[chillzatl]

It's just a matter of opinion. As coaches they are VERY similar in their style and their methods. They both have consistantly turned losing teams into winning teams. They are both considered two of the all time best coaches and they both only have one NBA championship to their coaching credit.

Oddly enough, it could be helming a losing NY Knicks team and being unable to make a difference that marks the final entry on both their coaching careers.

[RAHMOR]

I think this whole thing is overhyped. I have no problem with Larry jumping from team to team. Noone has a problem if a coach gets fired in midseason from a pitiful team he inherited or if a interim coach does well and gets replaced by a big name coach in the offseason. The NBA is a business and everyone in it is looking to make themselves happy, players, owners, and coaches. Larry Brown has paid his dues on good and bad teams on both pro and college level and should be able to do what he wants IMO. When you hire him you know you are getting a coach that will turn you team into winners. The pistons got a championship as a trade off for all the drama so they should have nothing to complain about.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

It's just a matter of opinion. As coaches they are VERY similar in their style and their methods. They both have consistantly turned losing teams into winning teams. They are both considered two of the all time best coaches and they both only have one NBA championship to their coaching credit.

Oddly enough, it could be helming a losing NY Knicks team and being unable to make a difference that marks the final entry on both their coaching careers.

---

It is a matter of opinion and my opinion is that Brown is better but here is what you can quantify:

Larry Brown:

1977 DEN NBA 50 32 .610 2 4 .333

1978 DEN NBA 48 34 .585 6 7 .462

1979 DEN NBA 28 25 .528

After Larry: 1979-80 NBA 30 - 52 .366

Note: Big negative trend after Larry left. Consistent winner with Larry. ++

Pre Larry: 24 - 58 .293

1982 NJN NBA 44 38 .537 0 2 .000

1983 NJN NBA 47 29 .618

Post Larry: 45 - 37 .549

Note: Huge improvement with Larry. No significant change after Larry left. Winner with Larry. ++

Pre Larry: 31 - 51 .378

1989 SAS NBA 21 61 .256

1990 SAS NBA 56 26 .683 6 4 .600

1991 SAS NBA 55 27 .671 1 3 .250

1992 SAS NBA 21 17 .553

Post Larry: 49 - 33 .598

Note: No significant change after Larry left. Winner with Larry. +

Pre Larry: 31 - 51 .378

LAC NBA 23 12 .657 2 3 .400

1993 LAC NBA 41 41 .500 2 3 .400

Post Larry: 27 - 55 .329

Note: Huge improvement with Larry and huge drop without him. High moment in franchise history. ++++

Pre Larry: 41 - 41 .500

1994 IND NBA 47 35 .573 10 6 .625

1995 IND NBA 52 30 .634 10 7 .588

1996 IND NBA 52 30 .634 2 3 .400

1997 IND NBA 39 43 .476

Post Larry: 58 - 24 .707

Note: Improvement after Larry left. Winner with Larry. ++

Pre Larry: 22 - 60 .268

1998 PHI NBA 31 51 .378

1999 PHI NBA 28 22 .560 3 5 .375

2000 PHI NBA 49 33 .598 5 5 .500

2001 PHI NBA 56 26 .683 12 11 .522

2002 PHI NBA 43 39 .524 2 3 .400

2003 PHI NBA 48 34 .585 6 6 .500

Post Larry: 33 - 49 .402

Note: Substantial improvement with Larry and big drop without him. +++

Pre Larry: 50 - 32 .610

2004 DET NBA 54 28 .659 16 7 .696

2005 DET NBA 54 28 .659 15 10 .600

Post Larry: ??

Note: Substantial improvement with Larry. One of the highest moments in franchise history. +++

Pre Lenny: 30 - 52 .366

1970 SEA NBA 36 46 .439

1971 SEA NBA 38 44 .463

1972 SEA NBA 47 35 .573

Post Lenny: 26 - 56 .317

Note: Significant improvement with Lenny and huge drop without him. High moment in franchise history. +++

Pre Lenny: 27 - 55 .329

1975 POR NBA 38 44 .463

1976 POR NBA 37 45 .451

Post Lenny: 49 - 33 .598

Note: Significant improvement under Lenny and significant improvement after Lenny left. +

Pre Lenny: 40 - 42 .488

1978 SEA NBA 42 18 .700 13 9 .591

1979 SEA NBA 52 30 .634 12 5 .706

1980 SEA NBA 56 26 .683 7 8 .467

1981 SEA NBA 34 48 .415

1982 SEA NBA 52 30 .634 3 5 .375

1983 SEA NBA 48 34 .585 0 2 .000

1984 SEA NBA 42 40 .512 2 3 .400

1985 SEA NBA 31 51 .378

Post Lenny: 31 - 51 .378

Note: Significant immediate improvement under Lenny and downward trend for last 4 years. No change after Lenny. ++

Pre Lenny: 29 - 53 .354

1987 CLE NBA 31 51 .378

1988 CLE NBA 42 40 .512 2 3 .400

1989 CLE NBA 57 25 .695 2 3 .400

1990 CLE NBA 42 40 .512 2 3 .400

1991 CLE NBA 33 49 .402

1992 CLE NBA 57 25 .695 9 8 .529

1993 CLE NBA 54 28 .659 3 6 .333

Post Lenny: 47 - 35 .573

Note: Improvement under Lenny. A winner but inconsistent. Drop after Lenny. +++

Pre Lenny: 43 - 39 .524

1994 ATL NBA 57 25 .695 5 6 .455

1995 ATL NBA 42 40 .512 0 3 .000

1996 ATL NBA 46 36 .561 4 6 .400

1997 ATL NBA 56 26 .683 4 6 .400

1998 ATL NBA 50 32 .610 1 3 .250

1999 ATL NBA 31 19 .620 3 6 .333

2000 ATL NBA 28 54 .341

Post Lenny: 25 - 57 .305

Note: Improved an already winning team. Lack of improvement led to rebuilding and dismal 2000 season. ++

Pre Lenny: 45 - 37 .549

2001 TOR NBA 47 35 .573 6 6 .500

2002 TOR NBA 42 40 .512 2 3 .400

2003 TOR NBA 24 58 .293

Post Lenny: 33 - 49 .402

Note: Team trended downward during Wilkens' time in Toronto and improved after he left. --

Pre Lenny: 37 - 45 .451

2004 NYK NBA 23 19 .548 0 4 .000

2005 NYK NBA 17 22 .436

Post Lenny: 33 - 49 .402

Note: Pretty good first year; pretty ugly second year. No significant change in overall franchise performance. -

[chillzatl]

You can pick all the nits you want about who you feel is better. But there is not enough data to logically justify your statement and take it beyond opinion into tangible fact.

[Diesel]

I would almost agree.

I would say that whoever said that they are the same in that they want it done their way was right... BUT what coach doesn't want it done their way?? Or at least what Good coach?

I think that when you look over the two, they have something about them in common in that they both can win without major superstars. They are both opposites of Phil Jackson.

Lenny did his work with Cleveland and Atlanta. 2 blue collar teams that he made into 50 game winners.

Larry did his best work with LAC and Detroit... another case of 2 blue collar teams that he made into good teams.

I think the problems with both is more that of circumstance than talent. Lenny got the big screw job in NY. He was placed in NY with the whims of Isiah to deal with and wasn't really given a lot of time to try to make something work.

I think he also got the big screw job here. They moved out his team for youth and then blamed the move on him?

I think Larry screws everybody else.

Mainly though, I think the guy who will get screwed the hardest may be Flip. If Flip is not able to re-create what Larry did with that Detroit team, Flip will turn out to be the big loser. He would have lost with a good Minny team and a proven Detroit team.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

You can pick all the nits you want about who you feel is better. But there is not enough data to logically justify your statement and take it beyond opinion into tangible fact.

---

That is probably why I said it was my opinion. I do think the objective facts favor Brown but they aren't decisive. (I would also thrown in the NCAA championship for him). I think both have coached primarily for winning, non-elite franchises.

Brown is 236 games over .500 (987 - 751) with a winning record in the playoffs.

Wilkins is 177 games over .500 (1332 - 1155) with a losing record in the playoffs.

I think the edge goes to Brown in the regular season and the playoffs statistically. I also think he has done more coaching jobs that I consider outstanding than Wilkens over their careers. The Knicks job will be uniquely revealing since the talent level won't be significantly different for Brown than it was for Wilkens. We will see if there is a difference in results.

You have your opinion, but I think there is more there to back up mine. If you want to say that at the end of the day, though, it is a matter of opinion then I would agree to disagree on that basis.