Lets try again

[exodus]

To be honest i moved to Atlanta in the summer of '93 and that is when I started following the team. Obviously i didn't know them as well as i do now.

Of course Diesel started the Nique discussion in a desparate attempt to continue his save Al campaign, which has been pretty lame.

[exodus]

Looks like not one person took Diesel's side in either poll. Big surprise.

[bralin1]

When Nique was traded it was the end of the line. The Hawks weren't going anywhere and it was time for some new blood.

BTW, Nique NEVER won a title. Nice fantasy though.

The Hawks were not going to win a title under Nique either and it was not even close. Nique wasn't that good anymore and the hawks wanted to get something while he still had a little value. Diesel, I've read some of your posts and the best I can figure is you really don't know what your talking about the majority of the time. Some of the stuff you write, like the Hawks would have won a title under an aging Nique, is just stupid. Other stuff you put down is based primarily on ignorance. But just because you say it with authority, well, it doesn't do anything to enhance your position.

Let me say this one more time and maybe it will sink in...AL needs to moved as soon as possible because he doesn't even attempt to play defense. If all we had were 5 Al Harrington's on the court at one time we wouldn't win much because the best teams in the NBA play great defense. Al is a bum on defense...only a coach like Woodson would put up with it. Only a GM as bad as Billy Knight would still have him on the roster. Stop your stupidity with AL Harrington. His act on the court is even more tired than yours.

[unknownjdb]

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If Sam Cassell was 25 yrs old, doing exactly what he's doing in LAC and about to be a uFA (as he is), would you trade HIM at the deadline for a box of Krispy Kreme doughnuts and a first round pick to make room for Shaun Livingston?

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Problem with this scenario is that the Clipper's are doing MUCH better than us.

[Diesel]

Ex doesn't know history.. In fact, I would wager that he was still a bullets fan at the time.

For those who remember correctly, we were first in the East, we had dominated both NY and Houston...

We were on our way past the 2nd round for sure, more than likely to the title.

[Diesel]

don't blame me because you are ignorant of Hawks History...

It has nothing to do with me be desperate about nothing. I simply said it's funny that you would justify trading Nique?

Then you continue on with your dumbass litney of ignorance.

You don't know the brokenness this franchise has gone through since that dumbass trade. AND Seeing that you were not a fan, you could never understand the impact.

[Diesel]

Becuase you're just as ignorant to facts as he is..

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BTW, Nique NEVER won a title. Nice fantasy though.

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You can lose money saying stupid stuff like that.

[exodus]

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You can lose money saying stupid stuff like that.

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You mean like "the Hawks will win 10 straight after the Miami game"? LOL

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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When Nique was traded it was the end of the line. The Hawks weren't going anywhere and it was time for some new blood.

BTW, Nique NEVER won a title. Nice fantasy though.

The Hawks were not going to win a title under Nique either and it was not even close. Nique wasn't that good anymore and the hawks wanted to get something while he still had a little value. Diesel, I've read some of your posts and the best I can figure is you really don't know what your talking about the majority of the time. Some of the stuff you write, like the Hawks would have won a title under an aging Nique, is just stupid. Other stuff you put down is based primarily on ignorance. But just because you say it with authority, well, it doesn't do anything to enhance your position.

Let me say this one more time and maybe it will sink in...AL needs to moved as soon as possible because he doesn't even attempt to play defense. If all we had were 5 Al Harrington's on the court at one time we wouldn't win much because the best teams in the NBA play great defense. Al is a bum on defense...only a coach like Woodson would put up with it. Only a GM as bad as Billy Knight would still have him on the roster. Stop your stupidity with AL Harrington. His act on the court is even more tired than yours.

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First off, Nique's situation and Al's situation are/were completely different. One played for th top team in the East, the other plays for the worst team in the East.

But for those of you that say that we wouldn't have won a Title with Nique, that may be true . . but we could've gotten to the NBA finals in that 94 season.

Although Lenny was growing tired of Nique continuously jacking up shots and playing lackluster defense, Nique still possessed the ability to completely take over a game.

When you look at a JORDAN-LESS Eastern Conference back in 94, the Hawks could've EASILY won the conference if he were on that team come playoff time.

Remember, one of the reasons why we lost in that 2nd round series, was the on and off play of Danny Manning. Manning had a game one time in which he scored 6 points in the playoffs. 6 friggin points. The Pacers completely exposed us in that series as a team that just couldn't put the ball in the hole, even though we "supposedly" had a better all-around player in Manning.

Nique was the go-to guy and the takeover guy on that squad. In the playoffs, we just didn't have that. The Hawks broke 90 points just one time in that series.

The Rockets with Olajuwon would've been tough to beat for the title, but we definitely could've gotten there.

And you know what, this organization OWED it to Nique to keep him on a squad that had the #1 seed in the East. They dealt him at the very point in which this franchise reached its peak. How stupid.

And Diesel is right. We've been looking for a Nique-like player ever since we traded him. Hopefully, JJ or Marvin will be that player.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Nique's game log in the 1993 - 94 season as a Hawk:

( I think FEB 20 was the trade deadline that year. So anything before FEB 20th, he was in ATL )

http://databasebasketball.com/players/play...ilkid=WILKIDO01

LOL @ he wasn't that good. Ish, if anything, he was inconsistent. Some nights he was VERY GOOD. Other nights, he was a mere mortal. LOL . . and look at the FT attempts. JJ and Al barely get to the line that much COMBINED.

[keith]

That was the first or second worst trade in professional sports in the city of Atlanta period! The other was when the Falcons traded Brett Farve.I'm not saying that the Hawks would of won the Championship that year,but they were clearly the best team in the east that year.The Pistons were old,Jordan was gone the only real threats were New York and a few western Conference teams.I remember right before the trading deadline the Hawks beat one of the best teams in the NBA in Seattle and I was thinking every thing was great,then disaster struck.For all those who thought that Nique couldn't win a title that year how in the hell did they think the Hawks could win one with Danny(no knees)Manning?Another stupid part about that trade was that they traded one unrestricted free agent for another unresricted free agent.How stupid can you get? It took me ten years to get over that trade. I only started back supporting the Hawks when they brought Nique back in the front office and when they fired Babcock. As much as I hated Babcock,Billy King isn't doing much better as the G.M.

[exodus]

There is no question that Manning was a bum.

Like I said '93 was my first year following the team so i certainly was no expert on them.

Of course that is neither here nor there. Like northclyde says their situations were totally different. Nique was an aging star on a first place team. Al is on a last place team, isn't aging and isn't a star.

Only Diesel could manage to think the two are similar.

[Dejay]

Hate to say it but I agree with Northclyde and Diesel here. The mere suggestion that the Hawks were not close to winning the NBA title the season Dominique was traded is asinine to the nth power. Last I recall, Jordan was 'retired', Isiah Thomas was injured and on his way to retirement, not to mention Magic's situation at the time. If anytime was the perfect time for Nique to get the ring that he long deserved, and sit proudly among the upper echelon of players that have rings on their fingers and are now first-ballot HOF'ers, that was it (do you think Nique's detractors would talk about him hogging the ball if he had the opportunity to hold up that trophy? I doubt it). That team was the top seed in the East BEFORE THE TRADE, having beaten most of the contenders, including slapping the Rockets senseless in the Omni when they started the season 14-0. That team was already a Finals contender; one shooter would have put them over the top (of course, you could attach that claim to 1986-1989 as well). Babs and Lenny got what they wanted after Manning came to town; a younger, better 'all-around' player. However, they never had the foresight to realize that in order to get to the Finals, especially back then, it was paramount to have a go-to, no doubt who was getting the ball with .000005 on the clock, with four guys draped on him like a cheap table cloth player to put the ball in the basket and they had NOBODY after Nique was gone. The Pacers quickly exposed Manning to be the fraud of a player to build a team around, embarrassing the Hawks in a series that really wasn't that close. Atlanta sports fans already foresaw this when the trade went down and, well, no need to rehash the immense backlash the Hawks have felt, even to this day. What turned the front office even more for a loop was how callous Manning was toward them after they were eliminated; how many seconds did it take for him to get to Phoenix anyway? Short of the NBA title, there was no amount of PR in the world that could possibly spin that as a good move, not now, not ever. How one could honestly say that the Hawks wouldn't have advanced to the Eastern Finals AT THE VERY LEAST had that hideous move had been left on the table is beyond me. Ever since that day of infamy, the Hawks have been looking for someone to embody what Dominique brought to the franchise. Hopefully, Marvin or at least one of the Joshes can fill this much-needed position soon. Its been vacant for a dozen years now.

[Diesel]

Exodus, I'm never suprised.

Earlier you were trying to justify Babcock for trading Nique. When I said that we were title bound you LOL with some emphasis. How ignorant can you be??

Still you try to suggest that somehow, your ignorance has anything to do with me.

No no... I know better. I have been a Hawks fan for a long time. Us Longtime fans remember the hurt of losing Nique and would NEVER try to justify it...

That was just a dumbass thing to say... for you and Coach1 and whoever else you may be.

[Diesel]

No, I mean denying the fact...

Prediction are what they are... Just about everybody predicted that the Colts were superbowl bound... Look at em..

However, to deny a fact coach, is stupidity.. Do your research.

[exodus]

First of all Coach1 isn't me. He posts on RealGm under TheAtl. His main goal is to see Woodson fired. Has been for awhile.

And yeah I didn't follow the team before I moved to Atlanta and had forgotten that season was during Jordan's retirement.

However whatever happened then has no relevance to Al's situation now. Your desparate attempt to link the two just shows how clueless you really are.

[Diesel]

Don't you remember... You linked the two.

You said that we should consider FAcy status of a player.

I asked you specifically about Dominique and you said that Dominique needed to be traded. .. What a dumbass statement that was.

I think it is you who are trying to keep the link together. When have i said anything about Al and Dominique together other than they were both lead scorers, who didn't play much defense, who played in front of younger guys that needed development, in their FA year (and everybody expected them to get big contracts). Now that you mention it Exodus, there is a little bit of a similarity there. ... I never looked at it that way, but thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Moreso than just being UFA, the Dominique situation does share some commonalities with the Al situation. Ex, you are a genius man. Aside from the records of the teams, the situation is the exact same.

You guys want to trade a team leader, lead scorer, for ANYTHING..

This is my problem right there... It's not trading Al, it's trading Al for Anything. Babcock was willing to trade Nique for Anything and the franchise has just started to recover... You guys want to trade Al for anything...

I say we trade Al for equal compensation. Do you have a problem with that Ex??

Or will you continue to try to devalue Al?

[exodus]

You aren't going to get equal value for a ufa since he can walk.

Just ask Boston. They got Walker for a couple of months and gave up a 1st round pick. Do you think they would do that trade again?

And Al's situation has nothing to do with Nique. Everyone can see it except you.

[Final_quest]

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So in essence, you say that Babcock was right to throw away Dominique the way he did because Dominque was about to be a UFA. Dominique wasn't a good defender... Plastic Man was playing behind Nique...

Do you think we made a good trade there Ex?

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This was the first mention of Dominique in this thread. So I'm gonna have to say Diesel was the person who linked the situation with Dominique to our current situation.

[Diesel]

You don't notice the similarities? I'm not saying they are the exact same, but you don't see the similarities at all?

Lead Scorer = Check

Team Leader = Check

Weak Defensively = Check

Free Agent = Check

Expected big contract = Check.

Ex, there are more similarities here than differences...