Why all the hate for Al?

[Lascar78]

yeah I mean like I always say, if you sign people to the right contracts, you can always trade them later for better fits.

I would move Salim+Zaza but only if it brought us a real big man (or a PG if we get Aldridge or someone)

[Wretch]

I don't dislike Al at all. He's a very good scorer, decent rebounder and passer, good attitude. The problem I have with him is that he's a good 2nd or 3rd option, but he doesn't play with that mentality. Last year, I thought he had the ability to become a star for us...but with no Toine here, he has shown me that he is better suited to a supporting role.

He plays with the mentality that he's a goto guy. On this team, that's not good...because we only go as far as Al will take us without a higher priorty on the court. JJ is our best player, and should be our primary option, but he doesn't command the ball the way Al does...and as a result, even with a primary option, Al is still free to shoot as he pleases. I'm not especially comfortable with that.

Al's numbers are good for a SF, but they are not consistent. Some nights he'll give you 20pts...some nights you'll get 10. That isn't so disturbing...what's disturbing is his rebounding stats. Some nights he'll give you 10+ some days he'll give you 3 or 4. Because of that, you can count on a good 7rbpg...but from a PF, I like to have more. What's more, Al is our primary post option and is very athletic. He should have FAR more double digit rebound games - and consecutively. He's only done it back to back like 2 or 3 times. For 6 - 7 million, his rebounding is fine. But for the pay raise this summer...the "bargain" angle goes right out the window.

There is no comparison between Al and JJ. First, they are two different types of players playing different postions. Secondly, they bring a different set of values to the table...

Wheras Al puts up numbers, JJ is a player that puts up numbers when it counts. That's huge. You can plan your game around JJ and depend on him. You KNOW what he's going to bring every night and you can live or die by it. He's a classic clutch performer. The defense has to adjust to him at any given point in the game, every night, and that creates opportunity for others and that makes us better as a whole. JJ makes the team better.

Al doesn't really make those around him better. Pretty much he gets the ball, he's taking the shot, and it's either hit or miss. I honestly don't have a problem with that attitude and some nights, I have seen Al be completely unstoppable. However, Al has not shown the kind of consistency that makes me comfortable with him in that role. He has been given all the freedom and opportunity in the world to establish himself this season, and yet hasn't distiguished himself as anything more than a supporting scorer (or rebounder) and at times he honestly looks very average.

Does that make him a bad player? No. It doesn't even make him expendable. However, if we are going to be a serious team, then we need at least 2 guys that we can bring it like JJ on a nightly basis. We have to keep looking for the player that can step up beside JJ. I wouldn't just give Al away, but he is not the long term answer for us at SF/PF. Not as we are.

If we land a PG or C who we can depend on like JJ, then perhaps it could work... or maybe we could keep Al and ship out a package to get that. Not to retread, but ideally this would have been our situation had we drafted Paul or Deron. As it were, we set the stage for player movement when we brought in Marvin. You don't bring in a guy with the #2 pick with the intention of making him a 6th man...and you don't pay a guy upwards of 10million to back up your forward spots.

Something has to give.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Al is the 2nd best player on our team. Therefore we must get rid of him to get more playing time for a kid who hasn't proven anything. This team will likely do that and will likely have about the same record or worse next year (IMHO)

---

You are right he hasn't proven anything, but Al has proven time and time again that he is not clutch so I'll take my chances with the new guy.

---

Inevitably, if JJ, Marvin or Smoove don't improve to expectations then you and the rest of the crew will be hating them as well.

---

Not if we are winning. When you are losing you focus a lot more on trying to figure out what is keeping you from winning. If Marvin turns into a bordline All-Star like Rashard Lewis and never becomes the All-NBA player many expected, Hawks fans will be very happy as long as he is a cog on a winning team.

The negative push on Harrington is that we have a numbers crunch with our young players (at a minimum as it regards the long-term cap implications) and we are still losing.

[Diesel]

I say the package is everything.

If we can't find a player better than AL, we keep Al until we're ready to trade him. I think it's just that simple.

If Al walks, oh well say la vie..

If Al comes in less than 10 .. keep him until we're ready to move.

If a good SNT comes.. Let's do it.

But let's not be stupid in our dealing.

[Plainview1981]

Marvin is a foul magnet. If there's a play with a stupid foul involved, it's normally Marvin."

Al averages near 5 fouls per game.

[thesheedera]

Marvin hasn't adjusted to the size/speed of opposing post players. But he doesn't back down, either. He plays less than 25 minutes per game and has 6 to give. I'd rather he use the fouls than give up uncontested dunks/layups. Its the "And ones" that kill me.

My issue with Al is simple. He posts up about 8-10 feet out and the ball stops, and you know he's gonna shoot. His moves from that point on are usually pretty awesome, a quick blow by step and a solid turn around J. But he doesn't look to pass out of that position, and we have a bevy of competent slashers and shooters at the 1-3 spots for him to look for.

I think he feels the pressure to put the team on his shoulders, which is not a bad thing, but he's got to start trusting the other guys more and using his talents to make thm better players.

He'd be so much more dangerous if he were looking to get th other guys easy buckets. Other than Salim, our team is especially unselfish in the half court set, I hope Al will jump on board soon. He does not come across as a selfish person at all, in my opinion, just in that half court set.

[Wretch]

I don't see Al as a selfish player either. We've been looking for an identity for so long, and he came on board with the deadly "P" word tagged on him. Basically, expectations of him have affected the role he's been given. In addition to what we wanted/expected of him, Al obviously has a personal goal...to prove where he belongs (and in a contract year no less).

I think all that plays into the equation. Though, with him having such an important role on this team, I don't think it's likely to stop. And why would we? We pay him lots of money (or we will come summer), we treat him as the 1st or 2nd option...Al is going to shoot it because that's his role.

Unfortuneately, I don't think we go very far with him in that position. Not without a more dominant 1st and 2nd option on the team.

[Popeye]

Quote:

---

I don't see Al as a selfish player either. We've been looking for an identity for so long, and he came on board with the deadly "P" word tagged on him. Basically, expectations of him have affected the role he's been given. In addition to what we wanted/expected of him, Al obviously has a personal goal...to prove where he belongs (and in a contract year no less).

---

Agree AL is not SELFISH he makes some realy good passes in the open court on a fastbreak like last night when he passed it to Ivey for a dunk.

Sometimes he tries to do to much that's all.

[emeans]

I think Al is very talented in doing what he does best and that is score in the post and very short pull-up jumpers.

Al's problem (Maybe coach Woodson's problem) is that he turns into a shooting guard in the clutch moments of games, which has cost us 6 to 8 wins this year.

The end of games are like a scratched record, it keeps playing over and over again.

I am not sure if this is a coaching issue or an Al issue, but giving Al the ball at the 3 point line for him to CREATE a shot during clutch time (late 4th quarter) is dumb basketball. This is not Al's game at all. Al is not a creative Shooting guard. JJ is the only one who should have the green light to do that. Al needs to setup down in the post area and do what he does well. Al gets the ball too far from the basket to be effective in crunch time!!

I have seen him turn the ball over 3 to 4 straight times during crucial periods of the 4th quarter too too many times this year.

The problem is I don't think it is Al's faught. He is either trying to do too much or coach Woodson is grossly misguiding what should happen at the end of games.

Let me repeat however that Al is a talent when he goes to his strengths!!

[DJlaysitup]

Yeah, I'm not criticizing Al for taking the shot - or even criticizng MW for his strategy (?)...

But if you make it a hypothetical question and ask coaches arond the league what to do with 8 seconds left down one point, my guess is that a big majority would say to try and get the ball inside. It simply gives you 2 good things that can happen instead of one (make the shot / get fouled). I know that is stating the obvious, but I would say that almost all other coaches would have taken a time out and set up a play with the goal of getting it to the hoop.

[Packfill]

Quote:

---

I think Al is very talented in doing what he does best and that is score in the post and very short pull-up jumpers.

Al's problem (Maybe coach Woodson's problem) is that he turns into a shooting guard in the clutch moments of games, which has cost us 6 to 8 wins this year.

The end of games are like a scratched record, it keeps playing over and over again.

I am not sure if this is a coaching issue or an Al issue, but giving Al the ball at the 3 point line for him to CREATE a shot during clutch time (late 4th quarter) is dumb basketball. This is not Al's game at all. Al is not a creative Shooting guard. JJ is the only one who should have the green light to do that. Al needs to setup down in the post area and do what he does well. Al gets the ball too far from the basket to be effective in crunch time!!

I have seen him turn the ball over 3 to 4 straight times during crucial periods of the 4th quarter too too many times this year.

The problem is I don't think it is Al's faught. He is either trying to do too much or coach Woodson is grossly misguiding what should happen at the end of games.

Let me repeat however that Al is a talent when he goes to his strengths!!

---

Those are some great points. He has strengths and obvious weaknesses as well, but the way people talk about him he is the devil incarnate. He is not a Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury or Ron Artest chemistry killer.

I am at a loss as to why the coaching staff plays him at the 4 on defense when Smoove would likely be a better fit. Anyone know why?

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

But if you make it a hypothetical question and ask coaches arond the league what to do with 8 seconds left down one point, my guess is that a big majority would say to try and get the ball inside.

---

Actually, I agree.

But you don't make that kinda decision with 1 second on the clock and the ball has been passed to you in your spot.

It's obvious that the original play that they were running was spread the floor to give JJ room to drive and give his floater. Well, when 3 players triple team JJ at the top of the key, his trained move (because they do this at least once every game) is to hit Al for the outside shot.

I can't believe you guys are so critical about this one play.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

But if you make it a hypothetical question and ask coaches arond the league what to do with 8 seconds left down one point, my guess is that a big majority would say to try and get the ball inside.

---

Most of the last second shots I see are done by guards in that scenario because they can always get off their shot whereas you aren't guaranteed to be able to get the ball in the paint in 8 seconds. Guys like Kobe, Billups, T-Mac, etc. are the guys taking most of the last second shots rather than guys like Shaq, Howard or Ming.

[Vol4ever]

Quote:

---

You don't have to block shots to be a good defender.

Hell, Juwaun Howard is a good defender and he doesn't get too many blocks.

defense is about moving your feet, effort and position.

---

J Howard of Houston????? He couldn't guard me, you've gotta be kidding Diesel.