Smoove/Marvin combo: The key issue

[exodus]

is whether or not Smoove wants to play the 4.

If he want to then I have no doubt he can do well there. I am sure he will get stronger and be better able to hold his position against bigger players. And I have no doubt that he can develop a post game.

But what if he doesn't? What if he doesn't want to bang against bigger players night in and night out? What if he resents having to play the 4 so Marvin to play the 3, where Smith wants to play?

Then there is a problem.

There is no way any of us can know how Smith feels about it.

However the team surely does and given the progress Smith has made he has I think they definitely have to build the team around him and JJ.

If it boils down to a choice of playing Smith at the 4 against his will or trading Marvin, I would trade Marvin.

[dalamchops]

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is whether or not Smoove wants to play the 4.

If he want to then I have no doubt he can do well there. I am sure he will get stronger and be better able to hold his position against bigger players. And I have no doubt that he can develop a post game.

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he has already been developing that post game, he's been trying that jump hook/running hook for the past couple games and he's hit a couple of them. He's no doubt trying to develope the post game.

[Packfill]

Another question is which position better optimizes his talents. Hard to say right now since there is a decent amount of projecting for either (i.e., gaining strength and developing moves to play in post; refining shooting and improving ball handling at the 3).

[DJlaysitup]

Well, realistically we can't have a frontline of Zaza, JS, and MW. Too weak. To run MW and JS at the forwards we will need some more strength at the center spot.

That would be fine with me if they can pull it off...but hopefully not via the draft. We would need a solid vet to be mediocre next year (hopefully that's the goal). Realistically, whichever way they go (PF or center) a vet would be a big help.

With some savvy GM work maybe we can get a vet banger and keep JS and MW (best scenario IMHO). But then again - we only have so many bargaining chips.

[exodus]

Whatever the Hawks do in the draft I am hoping that they sign Nene or Prz. They have the size to defend guys like Howard, JO and Duncan as well as the experience.

[gsuteke]

Quote:

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is whether or not Smoove wants to play the 4.

If he want to then I have no doubt he can do well there. I am sure he will get stronger and be better able to hold his position against bigger players. And I have no doubt that he can develop a post game.

But what if he doesn't? What if he doesn't want to bang against bigger players night in and night out? What if he resents having to play the 4 so Marvin to play the 3, where Smith wants to play?

Then there is a problem.

There is no way any of us can know how Smith feels about it.

However the team surely does and given the progress Smith has made he has I think they definitely have to build the team around him and JJ.

If it boils down to a choice of playing Smith at the 4 against his will or trading Marvin, I would trade Marvin.

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bro you've been watching too much daytime television.

[exodus]

You obviously have no idea what goes on in locker rooms.

Do you think Smith should have no say on what position he plays?

[Admin]

I can see that as being a legit posibility. This time last year nobody really knew the growth that Smoove would make in his game over the course of his 2nd season. Who would have ever thought we would see him hitting clutch 3pters, or 3pters at all.

Marvin is younger than Josh and came into the league more developed physically than Josh did so there is always the chance that he could become a Chris Webber type of 4 with his passing ability and shooting ability.

This offseason will be very interesting to follow in those regards.

The big key will be getting a physical 5 who is a tough defender and rebounder. I would ALMOST be willing to throw the max at Ben Wallace this offseason on a 3-4 year deal simply due to the fact that he would be the perfect fit for us at the 5.

[tmac13]

I think you can rule out Pryz, and probably Nene also..BK holds a grudge, so the fact that Pryz left the Hawks before probably rules him out..With Nene, it has been written that he wants a contract similar to those that Chandler and Dalambert got last year..If BK, had no interest in Chandler and Daly, both coming off pretty good seasons, I can't see him looking at Nene coming off an injury in the same price range.

Go ahead and eliminate JT, BK already traded him once..Jackie Butler noshowed BK in summer camp last year, so cross him off the list..Speedy Claxton is apparently resigning with NO before free agency starts.

[exodus]

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I think you can rule out Pryz, and probably Nene also..BK holds a grudge, so the fact that Pryz left the Hawks before probably rules him out..With Nene, it has been written that he wants a contract similar to those that Chandler and Dalambert got last year.

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Prz only played 12 games here, and according to Trace is was BK who decided not to offer Prz a contract. Trace got that straight from BK.

Chandler and Daly were coming off career years. Nene is coming off a major injury. I don't think his bargaining position is that strong.

[Lascar78]

your whole post is pure speculation on your part. There is no reason to believe that BK won't go after Nene or Pryz. As a matter of fact most reports about BK not forcing a deal with Denver for Nene reported that BK didn't want to give Al up when he felt that he had a great chance of signing him outright this year.

As far as Chandler and Dalembert, any reasonable person knew that they weren't going anywhere because they liked their clubs and those clubs were willing to pay them. Much like no one has a shot at Ben Wallace this summer.

I don't know what basis you have to say BK holds a grudge. I know you're not a BK fan, but no need to make things up. The only thing I've seen BK do that could resemble a grudge would be the Delk situation, and that was because we'd rather try to develop young talent rather than play a guy who'll barely make us any better and would be gone soon anyhow.

No one knows how BK and JT feel about each other. Same for Pryz. You're just making things up

[tmac13]

Making things up??..Maybe grudge is the wrong word, but anyone that has watched BK operate the last 3 years knows that BK is arrogant and vindictive..Your explanation of the Delk situation is complete bs..Delk sat inactive on the bench when we were shorthanded 2 players, one of them Lue..At that point Delk wasn't going to take any time from Salim..So, either BK doesn't care anything about winning, or he is vindictive..you tell me..Bk traded a perfectly decent player in Nazr for a 2nd round pick..He turned right around and traded that 2nd round pick for Drobniak..Nazr was traded for 1 reason, he was a Babcock leftover..He basically traded a decent starter for a euro-softie because he wanted to shed all things Babcock..Arrogant? vindictive?, you tell me...

Besides that Lascar, isn't about 99.9 percent of anything on any message board a matter of opinion and conjecture?

[Lascar78]

They shipped the whole babcock regime of players to send the message to the league that this is a new franchise, new ownership, new GM, new players, all so that free agents who normally wouldn't have given us the time of day could take a second look at us because we were a new franchise starting over committed to winning in the long run. None of that was vindictive. It's a PR move. You think JJ would have considered coming here before we made that all clear? Hell no.

You can debate the Delk situation, he was probably mishandled, I don't know that it was vindictive though. If he was really vindictive, Delk would still be on our inactive roster unable to play for anyone. BK cut him so that he could go try to get a ring. That's doing the man a favor.

Again, I don't see any basis for saying that BK is vindictive, or for saying that we won't go after Pryz or Nene. JT may or may not have hard feelings, but I can't imagine that BK has hard feelings towards him.

[Diesel]

I think there is something to BK... I think he does have preferences and that he is unchanging.

About Delk, he didn't release Delk primarily so that he can go and play for the Pistons.

He released Delk primarily to create roster space to try out some bigs.

He also released Delk because regardless of how vindictive he might be, he still has to seem like a class act to FAs...

[Lascar78]

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I think there is something to BK... I think he does have preferences and that he is unchanging.

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I agree. I do think he's stubborn. He thinks he knows best. But I don't think he's vindictive with players. If Pryz didn't want to stay the first time, I don't think BK is the kind of guy to say screw you you turned me down. He knows this is a business. If he thinks is worth our time, he will go after him.

As for Delk, I don't think it was to make room. I don't remember the last time we've even had 14 players, which is the max. Right now we might have 13 after picking up Grundy. He isn't picking up big men for that last roster spot. Hell it was pretty clear that he picked up Lang only because of league rules on minimum # of players, we never intended to play him.

I think he did release Delk to let him go chase a ring. Just like he traded Barry to a place where he could have a better shot and fit in better. And the Sheed trade. Since the clearout of our roster, BK has done everything to show the league that players who come here will be treated very well even if they don't end up working out for us.

[thesheedera]

Seems like your post suggests that Smith could be a power forward if he wants to, but Marvin is locked in at SF no matter what.

[exodus]

Pretty much. I don't see any 4 in Marvin's game at all, on offense or defense.

[thesheedera]

How much 3 did we see in Smith's game last season?

[exodus]

It was pretty clear that he wanted to play a perimeter game he just wasn't that good at it.

One thing i thought was strange was that, especially early in the year, he was a much better shooter off the dribble than catch and shoot. That made me optimistic that he could develop into an effective scorer, because a pullup J off the dribble is tough to defend.

As far as Marvin playing the 4, he seems allergic to contact. And oddly enough he keeps jumping into people even though he doesnt have the strength to take contact and finish.

I haven't seen a post move from him all year. Not one turnaround J or jump hook. I haven't seen him even attempt either one. And he definitely isn't as strong as Smith.

Oh yeah and Smith is 4th in the league in blocks.

Marvin is definitely a better man defender at the 3 than Josh though.

[thesheedera]

All I'm saying is that we're talking about raw rookie prospects. Josh didn't show me anything last season that made me think he'd ever be a great SF. He couldn't dribble, he made awful decisions with the ball, he couldn't hit a jumshot. He could dunk, and he could block.

Now he's showing some polish as a SF and a playmaker, and my mind is changed about him. I CAN see him as an All Star SF kind fo player.

Marvin looks like a signpost right now, just standing in one position, waiting for something to happen around him instead of making things happen himself. It seems like he only plays assertive when the vets are on the bench, and Childress is out there with him. Childress looks for Marvin regularly in the offense.

But I'm convinced that Marvin will be more aggressive if/when he adds strength. And if we pigeon hole him now, we most likely miss out on what he'll really become.

The strange thing is that as a college player, he played EXCLUSIVELY in the post, and he had no problem at all with contact. I think he feels like a boy among men out there, and if/when he bulks up, we'll see that proactive attitude he played with last season.

The big debate is really about the if/when. Marvin fans think its a "when", the anti-Marvin crowd think its a longshot "if" at best.