If Chicago selects Roy...

[Diesel]

Either, they could be picking him for us.

or they could be picking so tht They can trade Gordon to us.

Either way..

I would be pleased with an Al trade that netted us a good OG and a draft pick of Shelden Williams.

Think:

Gordon/JJ/Smoove/Shelden/Zaza!!

Welcome the Landlord!!

[Buzzard]

I think given their lack of size in the post, they would be crazy. But I have heard reports they are considering picking a SG to place along side Henrich (sp).

Hope they do, so then we have a better chance at a quality big. But not the landlord, I want a 7 footer or a guard at 5, just say no to reaches. We need to get bigger downlow and quicker in the backcourt...

[Diesel]

as much as defensive ability.

I think it's a wasted argument for us to get a defensively weak 7 footer. Let's go re-sign Drobs is that's the case.

I think however, we need a steady defensive force. Not a jhonny come lately, but someone with an actual track record for playing good defense.

That's why I like the Landlord as a PF. I think he's stronger than most of the guys coming out and playing. I think he has the timing of a shot blocker. I think he plays positional defense with his feet better than most of the guys coming out. He didn't do so well against people who were 7 feet and strong like Hibbert and Johnson.. however, that's why we play team defense. On top of all that, he has a good offensive arsenal. Why not choose him? He's exactly what we need a real Pf who can play defense.

[Buzzard]

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I think it's a wasted argument for us to get a defensively weak 7 footer. Let's go re-sign Drobs is that's the case.

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True enough and if all the decent 7 footers are gone, we don't reach for Sheldon or any big. Just take the guard we need who will also be BPA by the time Morrison, Aldridge, Bargman are gone anyway.

Sheldon is described as a garbage man offensively, whose ceiling has been reached (draftexpress weaknesses). Considering he is a senior, this is probably closer to the truth than describing him as having a lot more upside if any... He does have a tough time with bigger players and there are a lot more of them in the NBA than in the ACC.

Don't get me wrong, if we moved down and wound up with Sheldon and a guard or another project type big. I would be pleased. But at #5, Sheldon is a reach, who could end up being nothing more than a short defensive PF/C role player who comes in off the bench.

[b3bawla]

How has Shelden Williams' ceiling been reached. He averaged just about a 17/10 for the last two years in the best conference in college basketball (ACC) And yet he's got tons of stuff that he can get better at. His is jumpshot only good out to 12-15 feet. What if (and this is just a crazy idea) his jumpshot actually improves now that basketball is his job and he doesn't have to worry about getting grades in one of the most demanding universities in America. What if he learns post moves, as all he has now is a right handed hook. Seriously it KILLS me when people say that a player has no upside.

Oh yea, and I think we all have to start reallizing that 7'0 does not always make one big man better than another. Think about this. A basketball player only uses the heigth up to his shoulders (or his finger tips when they are stretched in the air). The area from his shoulder's to his head is usesless (in terms of heigth). Williams has freakishly long wingspand, something like 7'2".

My last comment is that Duke (and this hurts because I am a North Carolina fan) has been doing very well at developing undersized big men. Elton Brand (6'8 260), Carlos Boozer (6'9 250), and now Shelden Williams (6'9 250). Guess what, the first two got better after they went pro. Williams compares more favorably to Boozer on offense and Brand on defense. I really don't think 5 is a reach for him here. I honestly think that he will probably be one of the 5 best players from this draft. And I am very convinced that he will not be a bust. Plus we got tons of upside in Smoove, Marvin, Zaza, and even some in JJ. We need production.

[DrReality]

Why would they draft one guard when they trade a similar one?

[DrReality]

I think he could make the most impact most immediately. One other thing to take into consideration, he didn't have much help inside. He was pretty much their lone muscle guy and played against some big guys.

[Buzzard]

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Seriously it KILLS me when people say that a player has no upside.

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I just repeated what was said. But a lot of players have already maxed out their upside in college and due to this they end up being bust and/or role players in the NBA.

I do not think Sheldon is in the top five here by a long shot. I would take him with the 10th on down. Duke is a awesome program and the ACC is a great conference but this is the NBA.

I remember when Duke beat NC this past season. Roy Williams was in shock that Sheldon was able to take his team apart almost single handedly. That game put Sheldon on the map for me but it also caused me to look hard at his game.

Was Roy in disbelief because of how good Sheldon was or was he in disbelief because a player with good but not great skills could do that to his team all by himself?

I got the impession Roy did not think Sheldon was really that good.

[b3bawla]

I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. It's just that the idea that a physically gifted player(though not an athletic freak) with a hunger to get better (seen in his prgoess over the years) has his best years behind him as a 22 year old is pretty ridiculous. At least that's how I feel on the matter.

But I do know this. UNC's 04-05 championship team is the best team (read team...collection of individual talent) team I had seen in the ACC (I been closely watching since the early 90's). Shelden Williams beasted us that year to the tune of 16.5 points (.68% from field), 6.5 boards, 4.5 steals, 5.5 blocks. He KILLED us. Roy Williams should have had a bunch more respect after that.

[Buzzard]

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I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. It's just that the idea that a physically gifted player(though not an athletic freak) with a hunger to get better (seen in his prgoess over the years) has his best years behind him as a 22 year old is pretty ridiculous. At least that's how I feel on the matter.

But I do know this. UNC's 04-05 championship team is the best team (read team...collection of individual talent) team I had seen in the ACC (I been closely watching since the early 90's). Shelden Williams beasted us that year to the tune of 16.5 points (.68% from field), 6.5 boards, 4.5 steals, 5.5 blocks. He KILLED us. Roy Williams should have had a bunch more respect after that.

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I can relate. Have been a tech fan since Cremins and the three amigos....

I think Sheldon has a good chance of maiking it. Just not with our 5th pick. If we traded down and grabbed him along with another quality pick, I would be fine with it. I think he is a risk but as long as we are not putting all our apples in his basket its worth it...

[deester11]

Well, in regards to Sheldon Williams, I may be in the minority, but I wouldn't want him unless we have two picks to play with. I'm an ACC fan and only watched him in a handful of games...he is good. Just not top 10 good (just my opinion). I'd rather draft Roy/Foye and deal Harrington for a big or sign a big to an offer sheet.

[uga2006]

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My last comment is that Duke (and this hurts because I am a North Carolina fan) has been doing very well at developing undersized big men. Elton Brand (6'8 260), Carlos Boozer (6'9 250), and now Shelden Williams (6'9 250). Guess what, the first two got better after they went pro. Williams compares more favorably to Boozer on offense and Brand on defense. I really don't think 5 is a reach for him here. I honestly think that he will probably be one of the 5 best players from this draft. And I am very convinced that he will not be a bust. Plus we got tons of upside in Smoove, Marvin, Zaza, and even some in JJ. We need production.

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That is true, it's just his upside isn't as great as some of the younger players but you know this guy is gonna learn as much as he can and give it his all. The only weakness I saw was he'd sometimes get overmatched by bigs who were athletic. He'll contribute alot and I wouldn't doubt if he wins ROY b/c he is fundamentaly sound. Is he worth number 5? Probally not but top 10 definately.

[b3bawla]

I see you guy's point and if this were your average darft I would agree with you. But it's not. There is one player who I imagine would be a top 5 talent in most other drafts (aldridge...and even that may be a stretch). There is usually a huge dispairty between those top 5 and everyone else. But not this year. Look at who these players are compared to. Morrison-> Szerbiak, Thomas-> Stromile Swift, Marcus Williams-> Mark Jackson, Bargnani-> Radmonovic, Foye-> Mike James, O'Bryant-> Chris Kaman...it' pretty obvious that most of these cats would be in the 7-15 range in most drafts. And I think Shelden Williams has just as good (perhaps an even better shot) of projecting to be the solid starters (but not superstars) that this draft will probably produce.

I mean everyone has said this draft has no top end talent but it's deep. So why are we looking for upside. So that if we "reach" for the Landlord at 5, it's not really a reach. There is no Lebron, Carmelo, Yao, Duncan, or Shaq in this draft. Folks, this ain't the draft for putting a high pick on a guy that has upside and lacks productivity. The whole idea about not allowing high schoolers in the draft is to get teams back to evaluating players on production and potential. Look at the Bulls. They've drafted productive ball players from great schools and they've gone from a crappy team to making the playoffs the last 2 years. In 04 they drafted Gordon (UCONN), Deng (Duke), Duhon (Duke), and signed Nocioni (a member of the Gold medal Argentinian team since 1999). In 03 they got Hinrich from Kansas. We need producers like that...We need S. Williams or Roy (with M. Williams closely as a viable option).

[Diesel]

The rumor mill states that Chicago's coaching and Gordon is not mixing well.

Here's a story from earlier this year.

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The Chicago Tribune's Sam Smith floated the notion of the Bulls pondering a trade of Gordon back on Dec. 26. It was meant as an "All I Want for Christmas" rant, and, in one of the more comically quick cases of rumor becoming fact, soon the NBA's sewing circle began throwing out possible destinations for Gordon.

The reason why: a trade of Gordon makes a lot of sense. The Bulls' current three-game win streak hasn't erased the bad taste of an eight-game losing skid that preceded it, and especially not the team's 15-19 record. Following a surprise 47-win campaign in 2004-05, Chicago's fortunes were believed to be on the rise with a rapidly maturing roster that had reaped the rewards of the defensive approach evangelized by head coach Scott Skiles.

With so little production coming from Chicago's frontcourt and some serious redundancy in the backcourt, the Bulls appeared to be a strong candidate for a trade. Four guards -- Gordon, Kirk Hinrich, Chris Duhon, Jannero Pargo -- all 26 and younger, all 6'3" and under, all capable of playing both guard spots and all worthy of more playing time could be dealt for big man help.

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When you think about the redundancy, you're right it doesn't make sense to get another guard. But I think they may believe that getting Al, getting Nene, and getting a guy like Roy could be their fix.

[Diesel]

I like the frontcourt of:

JSmoove/Shelden/Zaza.

You have defense, scoring, and rebounding.

[Diesel]

I think that Shelden is easily a top 7 player and probably better than that.

He has more offense than Okafor.

He's in better physical shape than Okafor.

He's probably on the same level defensively as Okafor.

In a league starved for big man talent, i don't see many of the players mentioned ahead of Williams right now as being better than Williams. I mean Rudy Gay?? Come on. Foye?? There's a lot of Johnny come latelys in the draft that has spent their college careers doing nothing but living on HS hype. Williams spent his college career playing the best and being the best.

[Diesel]

You're new around here, but you speak the truth...

[drzachary]

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You're new around here, but you speak the truth...

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Ha!

Speaking the 'truth' (how can an opinion be 'truth,' except to the speaker?) doesn't make you an outcast. Repeating it ad nauseum does.

[AHF]

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I think that Shelden is easily a top 7 player and probably better than that.

He has more offense than Okafor.

He's in better physical shape than Okafor.

He's probably on the same level defensively as Okafor.

In a league starved for big man talent, i don't see many of the players mentioned ahead of Williams right now as being better than Williams. I mean Rudy Gay?? Come on. Foye?? There's a lot of Johnny come latelys in the draft that has spent their college careers doing nothing but living on HS hype. Williams spent his college career playing the best and being the best.

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I respect Williams and think he would be an OK pick for the Hawks but I don't get the "better than Okafor" comparison. Okafor was considered a potential #1 pick (was the #2 pick) in a deep and extremely talented draft. Williams isn't being considered for a top 3 pick in a draft that is notably weak at the top. Why do you think that is given that both had significant college "resumes"? I think it is because it was obvious that Okafor had shown more potential by the end of his college career than Williams. If Williams was really Okafor with more offense then he would easily be the #1 pick in this year's draft, IMO. (Incidently, what is going to kill Okafor's pro career is his back problems).

[DJlaysitup]

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I like the frontcourt of:

JSmoove/Shelden/Zaza.

You have defense, scoring, and rebounding.

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That looks like the safe route to being reasonable competitive next year (without Al). Our years of glamour pick "BPAs" with potential should be over. We need to fill the holes and get on with being a competitive team.