Hawks forwards vie for 2 spots

[DrReality]

Several Hawks forwards vie for 2 spots

Woodson sees lots of shared playing time

By SEKOU SMITH

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 10/05/06

A government numbers cruncher isn't needed to solve the Hawks' logjam at the forward positions.

A pre-schooler could figure this one out.

JOHN AMIS/STR

(ENLARGE)

Josh Childress puts his foot on Josh Smith's back as he, Marvin Williams and Joe Johnson (right) laugh during media day.

There are two starting spots and no fewer than five players vying for the jobs and rotation minutes. Hawks coach Mike Woodson insists that who starts games is far less important than who finishes.

It's a sound theory but one hard to sell to first-, second- and third-year NBA players focused on helping the Hawks rebound from years of losing and establishing identities of their own.

That's why training camp is more like a month-long audition for many of the players involved, namely third-year players Josh Smith and Josh Childress, second-year players Marvin Williams and Esteban Batista and rookies Shelden Williams and Solomon Jones.

"I know for me personally, that's my approach. I'm definitely treating this as an open competition," Marvin Williams said. "Especially for me, after not starting last year and trying to come back at another level this year. This camp is just totally different to me, the vibe is totally different. We're all competing at a different level than a year ago.

"But we're all in this together, too. I want Josh to get better just like I know he wants me to get better. And we're all here for Solomon and Shelden. So it's a good feeling knowing that we're all in this together."

Smith said he hasn't even wondered about who's going to start.

"It's not a matter of who does or does not start," he said, "it's about what you do when you are out there on that floor."

Smith and Marvin Williams would appear to be the easy answers as the starters at power forward and small forward, respectively. Based on their performances last year, particularly during the latter stages of the season, and the fact that they complement each other well, playing them together makes the most sense.

With training camp just two days old, however, Woodson is taking his time in making those decisions.

"There's no question both Josh and Marvin have earned the right to play minutes this year based not only on what they did last season but on the work they put in over the summer," Woodson said of his young and talented tandem — both Smith and Williams are 6-foot-9, more than 230 pounds and just 20 years old. "They worked their [tails] off to put themselves in a position to help us. So I absolutely think those two guys can start for this team. But I don't think you give a starting job to a guy just to be giving it.

"That's why guys like Solomon and Shelden, and even a veteran like Lorenzen Wright, have to earn big minutes on this team."

What is clear is that both Smith and Marvin Williams will be in line for some of those heavy minutes at the forward spots. Shelden Williams, Jones and Batista will have to battle for rotation minutes.

Childress, who can play as many as three different positions, is actually slated to serve as the primary back up to Joe Johnson at shooting guard. But if the Hawks decide to play with a smaller lineup, he'll be at small forward.

And it's that type of versatility that is both the beauty and the curse of a roster filled with more "wings" than a bucket of chicken.

"I really think that's one of the great misconceptions about our team," Childress said. "We do have a lot of guys who are what would traditionally be considered forwards. But look at what everybody else has. Everybody in the league is shifting toward that. I think it's a pretty good thing for us. And once we put this thing together, [Hawks general manager] Billy Knight is going to be known as a genius. So people can say what they want to say, but all this competition is only going to make us better."

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[DrReality]

AJC > Sports > Hawks > Blog

Emphasis on ‘D’ is serious

By Sekou Smith | Wednesday, October 4, 2006, 03:55 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

After just three practice sessions the tone for business in Hawksville this season has already been established.

Competitiveness -– up.

Attention to defensive detail -– way up.

Overall intensity -– way, way up.

Hawks coach Mike Woodson and his staff designed it this way. Woodson said after Wednesday morning’s workout that he’s had to do much less teaching (now that his roster only slightly resembles that of a Division I program) this year as compared to the last two.

The extra emphasis on defensive intensity shouldn’t surprise anyone. The Hawks were one of the league’s most accommodating defensive units last year, negating all the positives that usually come from putting up 102 points per game of their own.

Without the benefit of any scrimmage action thus far, it’s extra hard to tell which players have made the biggest improvements in their specific games. But if the frantic nature of the drills I’ve been allowed to watch are any indication, the scrimmages should be plenty entertaining. Guys are going to be going after each other in an effort to earn the starting jobs and minutes that are available.

And for anyone who wants to see what I’m talking about, the Hawks are holding a scrimmage open to the public Saturday at Woodward Academy in College Park. The doors open at 9 a.m. and the session runs from 10 a.m. to noon.

Since they won’t start scrimmaging until Friday at the earliest, I’m expecting Saturday’s workout to be a pretty good show.

Permalink | Comments (4) | Post your comment |

[Lascar78]

What's not to love? I can't wait for the season to start. Season tickets just got here in the mail, I'm officially pumped.

It seems like the rest of the team is catching up to Este's intensity. I was surprised to hear that he was not the first to draw blood this year.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, but

Speedy/Lue/Ivey

JJ/Salim

Marvin/Chill

Smith/Shelden/Batista

Zaza/Wright

should be the 12 man rotation until further notice (when Speedy is healthy). Let Shelden learn off the bench. If he earns the start later in his career, so be it. But for now that starting lineup looks like the no-brainer. Smith is in the post to get extra help blocks. On offense, he and Marvin can interchangeably go in the post or on the perimeter depending on the opponent and how they evolve.

I can't wait to see us finally gain some respect again.

[DrReality]

The guys we had last year didn't have a leader, except JJ and he was new to it. Lo brings that. But just as they were starting to deveop some intensity ?? last year, Jason C died. That is a duanting task to anyone, but given the youth of our team, I think they were walking zombies trying to deal with it. I hope they develop some momentum in training camp and come out swinging.

[Blunt91]

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"I really think that's one of the great misconceptions about our team," Childress said. "We do have a lot of guys who are what would traditionally be considered forwards. But look at what everybody else has. Everybody in the league is shifting toward that. I think it's a pretty good thing for us. And once we put this thing together, [Hawks general manager]

Billy Knight is going to be know as a genius.

So people can say what they want to say, but all this competition is only going to make us better."

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Wonder what Walter will say in response to Chill's comments??

[Johnnybravo4]

I just hope that Woodson tries to be too cute and start Shelden Willams and Lo Wright, or some ish like that.

[frosgrim]

Its great that the coaching staff has to do so much less teaching this year. That's one of the reasons I think that they too Shellhead- he just doesn't need that much teaching, coaching yes, but not teaching.

Smith has two years of NBA experience and a lot of minutes, he should be ready for a very solid and consistant year.

If Marvin's post game is as good as being said, he might have a monster year, but I am still expecting around 17pg with maybe 6 boards.

Once they start the scrimages it will be good to hear who gets into it with each other. I would think that Wright is going to take Sheldon to school until the rookie learns how to push back.

Here's to hoping that Woody can create a good rotation and that everyone on the team stays on the same page.

[Packfill]

If Marvin averages 17 and 6 this team will be even better then what most expect. I don't think he will have those types of numbers, but I would be disappointed if he earns less then 30 minutes a game or averages less then 11 a game.

[WraithSentinel]

I like Chill comments.

[Diesel]

I like what Woody said...

You don't give a guy a spot just to be giving it...

That's great. I agree... Make him earn it!!!

Too many people are promised spots and inherit spots without having earned nothing!

Woody is right.. Competition is good. Because then at the end of the day, there is no crying about not being treated fairly!

[gutz]

I think Josh Smith and Marvin are going to be huge this year!!! They are both two nasty freakish athletes and both are 6'9 and over 230lbs and only 20yrs old. They can easily man the SF and PF spots. Plus we got JJ, a legit PG in Speedy and an improving young center in Zaza. The more I think about our team the more excited i'm getting honestly. This team has a chance to surprise the whole NBA this year. See you all at the home opener Nov. 3 against the lowly Knicks. We should blow them out of Phillips Arena that night! Go Hawks!

[gsuteke]

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I think Josh Smith and Marvin are going to be huge this year!!! They are both two nasty freakish athletes and both are 6'9 and over 230lbs and only 20yrs old. They can easily man the SF and PF spots. Plus we got JJ, a legit PG in Speedy and an improving young center in Zaza. The more I think about our team the more excited i'm getting honestly. This team has a chance to surprise the whole NBA this year. See you all at the home opener Nov. 3 against the lowly Knicks. We should blow them out of Phillips Arena that night! Go Hawks!

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but on the AJC Hawks page there was a picture of Shelden standing next to Marvin. Shelden is a half inch taller.

[MoonKnight]

I don't see SW starting at one of the forward spots over JS and Marvin. IMO, SW will be battling Lo for the first big man off the pine. I also think SW will play more of the 5 spot than many here might imagine especially given the leagues current trend of smallball. While SW is a short 5 he does have good strength, shotblocking and attitude. Lo vs. SW is the real battle to watch.

[Diesel]

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They can easily man the SF and PF spots.

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Basketball is not about what you play offensively, it's about what you can defend. I don't think either can defend the 4 position. Moreover, I think when teams break us down to a halfcourt set, all Smoove and Marvin will do offensively is chuck up the shot. IN the offensive halfcourt, we must have a player who can go to the low post and score or draw a foul... Marvin Running into the lane with his head down won't get it against good defensive teams. To say that Marvin and Smoove will man the position easily, especially in the lack of a dominant big is ludicrus. Al managed the spot well because Al has a very good low post game. Unless something have drastically changed over the summer, we have become more a team of Jumpshooters.... which means, we will be victims of the three.

[gsuteke]

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They can easily man the SF and PF spots.

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Basketball is not about what you play offensively, it's about what you can defend. I don't think either can defend the 4 position. Moreover, I think when teams break us down to a halfcourt set, all Smoove and Marvin will do offensively is chuck up the shot. IN the offensive halfcourt, we must have a player who can go to the low post and score or draw a foul... Marvin Running into the lane with his head down won't get it against good defensive teams. To say that Marvin and Smoove will man the position easily, especially in the lack of a dominant big is ludicrus. Al managed the spot well because Al has a very good low post game. Unless something have drastically changed over the summer, we have become more a team of Jumpshooters.... which means, we will be victims of the three.

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could it be any worse than last year with Al "matador?"

[Diesel]

A lot of guys (exodus especially) made a referendum of Al based on his defense alone. The truth of the matter is that Al's offense helped our offensive effenciency more than anything Smoove or Marvin could have done did. Al was 2 points in the post. Because he was 2 points in the post, teams would crowd him which generally left room for JJ, Smoove, or Chillz to drop the three. How many times did Al whip it to Smoove for a three coming down the stretch. How many time was it the JJ and Al show? In fact, there were a few games where JJ didn't show up at Al and Al carried the team.

My fear this year is that Marvin and Smoove will be good but they won't be dependable. We need a dependable scoring threat either midrange or Low post to open the floor for our shooters.

[skyhawk]

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They can easily man the SF and PF spots.

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Basketball is not about what you play offensively, it's about what you can defend.

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I'm not sure if I agree with that as the NBA is becoming an offensive game as more teams are adopting the 'run-and-gun' style of play. Consequently, offense dictates/determines matchups, tempo and style of play - not defense.

Everyone's talking about how we won't be to match up with other teams defensively while ignoring the fact that we're a very good offensive team that will definitely cause problems for the other teams D.

[Diesel]

You say that teams are becoming more run and gun.

OK.

Look at your past championship teams:

Miami, San Antonio, Detroit, The Lakers...

These are teams that All slow the game down to a halfcourt game and pound you with their defense.

Offense still sells tickets.. But Offense can't win championships. If it could, Portland, Dallas, and Sac-Town would have gotten a few.

What you are noting is that building a strong offensive team is the easiest way to rebuild. If you add in versatile as one of your preferred buzz words... Then that's even better for the purpose of rebuilding...

However, to move from rebuilding to championship calibre, you have to move away from the very things you glory... such as run and gun style and versatility and move towards what has always won: tempo control, board domination.

That's why in my mind, the next championship calibre team that will come around will be the Clipps and the Magic.

These teams get it. You build inside to outside. You need good point gaurd play. You need to be able to defend and force teams to take a lower quality shot.

Notice when the Clipps had Miles, Odom, Magette, Brand, and Miller.. they couldn't get it to work. They were all the things that we're trying to be... Well, now, they've gotten real Centers. They've gotten a real PG, and their bigs know how to dominate the game.

[gutz]

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They can easily man the SF and PF spots.

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Basketball is not about what you play offensively, it's about what you can defend. I don't think either can defend the 4 position. Moreover, I think when teams break us down to a halfcourt set, all Smoove and Marvin will do offensively is chuck up the shot. IN the offensive halfcourt, we must have a player who can go to the low post and score or draw a foul... Marvin Running into the lane with his head down won't get it against good defensive teams. To say that Marvin and Smoove will man the position easily, especially in the lack of a dominant big is ludicrus. Al managed the spot well because Al has a very good low post game. Unless something have drastically changed over the summer, we have become more a team of Jumpshooters.... which means, we will be victims of the three.

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Its far from ludicrous to say that Smoove and Marvin can easily man the forward spots. Josh Smith only led the league in blocks last year. Marvin is already tons better defensively than Al will ever be. Plus Marvin HAS a low post game and it was evident in the summer league with all the fouls he was drawing. And of course Smoove has been working on his post game as well in the offseason bulking up another 15lb. to about 240lb. These 20yr. old guys are only going to improve here so I think its absurd for you to even say they can't man the forward spots. Al is so overrated its ridiculous. I don't know how many times I saw him chucking up 3's and jumpshots most of the game.

[DJlaysitup]

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...Al is so overrated its ridiculous. I don't know how many times I saw him chucking up 3's and jumpshots most of the game...

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It will certainly be interesting to monitor how Al works out in Indy. Many think he will do very well there and improve the Pacers considerably. Of course he will likely play the 3 there, with an all-star type 4 and a serviceable 5, so we can't compare directly. My guess he will do well and Indy will come out of the box winning. Hope we do the same :-)