Strong 2 man (JJ &Marvin) game within the offense

[thesheedera]

Why "Lite"?

I think he's more of a Josh Howard, Extra Strength.

[Nicholasp27]

marvin will be better than tim thomas either this year or next

el oh el @ tt lite

u are worse than walter sometimes

[Diesel]

I just read where Josh Howard takes Serious exception to being compared to Tayshun Prince. I'm sure, he would feel the same with the comparison to Marvin.

Like it or not, Marvin hasn't accomplished anything yet.

[AHF]

You are right that Marvin hasn't accomplished anything of significance yet. However, I would take any bet that he is a better player than Tim Thomas (excluding scenarios where he goes down with injury).

Using Thomas as a reference sets a pretty low floor, IMO.

[Diesel]

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marvin will be better than tim thomas either this year or next

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On what basis? Summerleague play? high reports? We have the same from Dion Glover and Raja Bell a few years back. Neither of those guys ever lived up to the hype after their record breaking Summerleagues and strong camp showings...

Now Nick..

I noticed that you want to LOL but you don't want to commit yourself to any conversation of substance... do you see where I'm going with this? You're another Hawks fan who can't justify anything you say and you try to laugh your way out of a serious conversation... or worse, insult your way out of the conversation.

How am I like Walter... Because I bring up facts that you can dispute? O, I'm sorry... You did dispute my claim by saying " ONE DAY, Marvin Will be better... You'll See!!!".

You're like a kid trying to argue the existence of Santa Claus. "He is real... He is real... You'll see!!"

Come on man. Are you the guy that labeled him as Lebron Lite too??? That would figure.

Why not try this..

Until Marvin has shown that he's capable of carrying a team, try not mentioning him in the same breath as Lebron... Or for you in the same paragraph.

Moreover, if ever you want to defend Marvin... Trying bringing some defense with Substance... Not some rhetoric and old tactics that shows that you have no defense.

[Diesel]

You have to understand something.

The player that Tim Thomas could be and the player that he is are two different players. Tim Thomas has more potential than Marvin. More. He's 6'10, he can dribble, rebound, and run an offense.

What he has done with that potential is all you see.

Well, when we talk about Marvin... All that there is is potential. Too many Squawkers talk about Marvin at the peak of his potential as if he has already reached it or as if he will reach it... however, the example that we have from Bender, Thomas, and others say that potential doesn't always reach it's peak.

So What can I compare of Marvin's.

ONLY WHAT HE HAS DONE

[gsuteke]

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I just read where Josh Howard takes Serious exception to being compared to Tayshun Prince. I'm sure, he would feel the same with the comparison to Marvin.

Like it or not, Marvin hasn't accomplished anything yet.

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I can tell you along with the rest of the board are getting irritated with Walter and his obsession with Shelden.

You on the other hand apply Walter's Negative Nancy approach to all things Marvin Williams.

[Yeti]

I missed the scrimmage. Did Marvin show any indication that he had extended his outside shot to the 3-point range? Remember last year that he was always 1-2 feet inside the line. Just curious if he has fixed that.

[HAWKEYE]

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I missed the scrimmage. Did Marvin show any indication that he had extended his outside shot to the 3-point range? Remember last year that he was always 1-2 feet inside the line. Just curious if he has fixed that.

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He did not take any 3 pointers prefering to work inside. I can't wait till the Memphis preseason game tomorrow. I'm sure the Hawks are ready to go to work against some other teams instead of each other to see how things sort out.

[Diesel]

I'm not negative about Marvin, I'm realistic.

I'm not calling Marvin a Bust, I'm saying that Marvin is not a superstar...

When I say that Marvin = Tim Thomas lite... they have very strong similarities...

They both played one year of Basketball in college.

They both were "versatile" players coming out of college.

They both failed to fit a particular position coming to the pros.

They both were highly favored because of their potential.

They both showed some flashes in their rookie year (I still think Thomas/Iverson could have worked).

That is real and factual.

Walter goes on his [censored] fit every year about somebody.

2 years ago.. it was Chillz.... Chillz is a bust, Chillz is a bust was the call.

Last year, it was Paul... Paul is too short to play the position. Paul is a bust, Paul is a bust... was the call.

This year it's Shelden... Shelden's too short. Shelden lacks the standing reach... blah blah blah..

Nobody has called Shelden a superstar... The savior of the team... So Walt is just doing what he always does... Bark up the wrong tree.

Me.. I've heard how Marvin was the next Lebron, how he would be better than Worthy, how he was better than Jordan coming out of UNC...

What I say is CoME ON BE REAL... STOP FEEDING THE BOARD THIS POTENTIAL CRAP..

[AHF]

Under that rationale I guess you could say that Greg Oden hasn't shown he is a better prospect than Priest Lauderdale since Priest made it to the NBA whereas Oden hasn't done anything yet!

Seriously, Tim Thomas' second season he averaged 7.2 ppg and 2.5 rpg. I won't exactly be holding my breath to wait and see Marvin surpass those numbers.

[Diesel]

Actually, it's true.

If Oden sleepwalks this season through OSU schedule...

Would you think that he would move the heavens of the NBA?

[AHF]

I don't expect Marvin to be anywhere near Jordan or Lebron. Marvin's numbers were better than Jordan's per minute in Carolina but that doesn't mean that much in the big picture except to see that Marvin was arguably the most efficient freshman in UNC history. That is good but the proof is in the pudding.

Worthy is someone I am not betting on Marvin surpassing but is more like what I would hope to see from him if he meets the high praise heaped on him leading up to draft night.

[AHF]

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Actually, it's true.

If Oden sleepwalks this season through OSU schedule...

Would you think that he would move the heavens of the NBA?

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I'm not saying Oden couldn't bust, but if you are a betting man you would be a fool to be on him having a worse career than Priest or other NBA stiffs, IMO. He is not a high risk bet to surpass the Kandi men of the world, IMO. Hence, I would say that he is a much better prospect than Priest was and that I expect him to be a much better player. He does still have to prove it on the court but I would take it for granted that he will surpass someone like Priest until he proves differently based on scout's opinions of his performance.

[gsuteke]

fair enough

[Nicholasp27]

u are so funny

even u know u are full of BS as you are typing out these posts

i never compared marvin to lebron

i just took issue with u calling marvin 'tim thomas lite'

the same tim who was a 7/2 player his 2nd year

who cares if they had similiar backgrounds or skillsets...when u say someone is someone else lite, u are saying they will not produce as well as the person they are the lite version of

u don't seriously believe that marvin will produce less than tim thomas has...we all know this...u are just full of BS when u post

[thesheedera]

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Like it or not, Marvin hasn't accomplished anything yet.

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I'm not saying he's a hall of famer for crying out loud.

Maybe you didn't notice my hint of sarcasm with the "extra Strength" comment, you're still so quick to point fingers at others for blindly supporting Marvin, yet you blindly support Shelden.

Marvin hasn't accomplished anything of significance, but if he performs in line with the progress he made last season and with what I've read about his offseason and training camp, I think Josh Howard is a good example of the type of player he'll compare well with sooner rather than later. The "extra strength" was a bit of a joke in response to your ridiculous and continuous "Tim Thomas lite" comparisons.

Diesel, we know you don't think it was a good pick, but are you excited about the possibilities of Marvin Williams, at all? Will you be bitter if he becomes a great player? Don't you realize how ridiculous it is to have a grudge against one of your one team's players, especially one with more positive characteristics (basketball and personal) than negative ones?

Lighten up, and enjoy watching him grow, otherwise you'll never be a happy fan.

[Diesel]

Click here.

We can't really compare the future because that hasn't happened yet.

Al we can look at is the comparison of their rookie years...

Take a good look...

They are so similar that it's scary...

Predictably... you will try to find some other player who you favor to compare Marvin's rookie year to... however, I know one thing.. It won't be Jordan or Worthy or Lebron or Mello or any of the usual suspects that you guys call out...

Here's one.

Try Scottie Pippen. He had a bad rookie year too!

[Diesel]

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you're still so quick to point fingers at others for blindly supporting Marvin, yet you blindly support Shelden.

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Like I explained to Teke...

I don't see Shelden as being a savior of any kind. As far as me supporting his pick... yes, I do. I think he was the right player to pick at the right time. We needed a PF and he was the best Pf in the draft. Do I think he will put the team on his shoulders and be "the Man"... NO... I don't.

However, I only say about Marvin that he's not a superstar and it agitates those who live in the world of Potential Alone.

See, when all you have to talk about is potential, then you really have nothing. Marvin has done nothing to distance himself from the 57 other players picked after him. We have talked about Paul.. but hell.... Deron, Charlie V., Granger, Frye, and a whole list of other guys who followed Marvin had better first years than Marvin did... So what's there to talk about...

Ah.. Potential.

Well my friend, Potential is totally meaningless until it's realized...

Shoot, Bender still has potential.

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Diesel, we know you don't think it was a good pick, but are you excited about the possibilities of Marvin Williams, at all?

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I will be excited about Marvin when he starts to live up to his pick. It's not Marvin's fault. It's the hype machine and the fans fault. You guys talk of Marvin as if he's one of the greatest players in the game. He's not even one of the greatest players in his class.

I gave Marvin the respect of using the word "yet"... Did you catch that... That means that I still have some hope that Marvin will do something... hell great things... However, I readily admit that with him all there is is hope... Too many of you have bought into the hype behind Marvin.. Applauded because now Marvin can have the position that he was being held back on having and I wonder what happens IF he doesn't realise that potential.. What if he's just a 14/7 player for his career...

Now, to some of you... that's impossible.

What Diesel says is don't count your eggs before they hatch!

[thesheedera]

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However, I only say about Marvin that he's not a superstar and it agitates those who live in the world of

Potential Alone.

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You don't just say that he's not a superstar, you have concluded that he never will be a superstar, and you continue to play that card non-stop. It is just as frustrating for us to read your crap as it is for you to read some blind fan's crap about potential. Both you and the blind Marvin fan are guilty of the same thing, you've made foregone conclusions about something that has not yet come to fruition.

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You guys talk of Marvin as if he's one of the greatest players in the game.

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You're wrong Diesel, some fans have extremely high expectations and think Marvin will be a savior, while some of us are very realistic. I am a HUGE Marvin fan, I love and support the guy, but that doesn't mean that I can't also be critical and realistic about him when necessary.

Many of us simply have extremely high hopes for him, but we understand that he hasn't proven anything, and that he might not become a great player. So when good news comes along, its exciting.

I know that Summer League games don't win rings, I know that training camp aggressiveness and intensity never notches a single "W" in the win-loss column. But its a hell of a lot hearing POSITIVE things about Marvin, and the rest of the young players, than if all we heard was that Marvin's lazy, out of shape, indifferent.

Many of you biggest criticisms of him have to do with his lack edge and his playing mentality being soft. Those were my same complaints about his rookie season, he didn't play with reckless abandon like he did in college. You assume he never will, I am patient and wait for him to get comfortable. From all accounts in the offseason, it sounds like he's addressing some of those very same concerns that we both had.

I'm looking forward to seeing an improvement, you're hoping it never comes so you can tell me "told ya so".