Strong 2 man (JJ &Marvin) game within the offense

[Johnnybravo4]

I could of sworn that this was a fan board. Take your pessimistic azz to inside hoops. You will have plenty of company there.

[Guest Walter]

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I can tell you along with the rest of the board are getting irritated with Walter and his obsession with Shelden.

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I didn't like the Childress selection but it has been since the MW selection I have increasingly lost not only faith but hope in BK. Woody (not a good coach IMO, too much Sidney Lowe), SW, MW, trading Diaw as a throw-in, trading Al for nothing, not doing enough this offseason given the league's greatest combination of need, capitol, and flexibility, building the team IMO the wrong way regardless, and a history that never includes a winning team as GM.

SW is just one of the many by-products of an egotistical mad scientist "gone madder". He's a particularly bad one, yes. But he's not the target of my ire, BK is. SOMEBODY has to say this stuff because there are too many people licking his boots for him simply because they see 5th overall picks piled up like Pumpkins in a good harvest year. Unfortunately BK doesn't have a clue about what to do with them in terms of building a team. No GM in history has drafted 5 forwards in a row with their 1st rd picks. It's beyond any notion of sanity that a GM could select 5 1st rd forwards in a row and not get his ass handed to him.

W

[gsuteke]

atleast Walter is consistent.

back to the basketball......

[Plainview1981]

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You have to understand something.

The player that Tim Thomas could be and the player that he is are two different players. Tim Thomas has more potential than Marvin. More. He's 6'10, he can dribble, rebound, and run an offense.

What he has done with that potential is all you see.

Well, when we talk about Marvin... All that there is is potential. Too many Squawkers talk about Marvin at the peak of his potential as if he has already reached it or as if he will reach it... however, the example that we have from Bender, Thomas, and others say that potential doesn't always reach it's peak.

So What can I compare of Marvin's.

ONLY WHAT HE HAS DONE

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Tim Thomas potential went out the window about 3 or 4 seasons ago.

[Buzzard]

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Any one who watched yesterdays scrimmage at the open practice I think can see how those two can play off each other. JJ is our unquestioned 1st option. Lue and Josh took quick kickouts at the perimeter for open looks. Marvin with that killer crossover with those super long arms if his man hesitates for a second he has that giant step and he's in and around him. His inside outside and midrange game is coming around rather smoothly. Even though he was playing for the other team in the scrimmage one could see the possibilities for the 2nd option. No question, Josh Smith is still a possibility. Everything is still open as this team finds an identity. Marvins man to man coverage with those arms will create turnovers (deflections, blocks, steals). Is it just me, I think JJ is not getting near the calls he should get when he gets roughed up inside because he does not (work) the refs. He is a little too gracious. Even scrimmage refs did not give him calls he should have gotten.

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Thanks for the info. This is the kind of positive information most of us like see!

[Buzzard]

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Here's one.

Try Scottie Pippen. He had a bad rookie year too!

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So why do you not do a Scottie comparison instead? Oh yea, this is a Marvin hater and positive thread jacker I am replying too...

[Diesel]

When does Potential go out of the window???

He's still 6'10". He's still a good ball handler. He still can shoot from range. He still can rebound. He still can defend.

I guess, you would have said the same about Chauncey Billups and a whole slew of late bloomers.

I don't suggest that his potential went out of the window, I suggest that it was never realized. There's a very fine difference.

[Diesel]

Actually, I did do a Scottie comparison and unlike I first believed, they don't compare... Scottie was a much better passer/scorer than I gave him credit for...

Tim Thomas however, is a tight fit!

[Diesel]

Are you the Artist this week?

JB, you know I have very little respect for your views on the Hawks mainly because they are not consistent. One weak you are a pessimist, the next you are attacking me for being a realist by calling me a pessimist. The next week you are "the Artist"...

[Diesel]

That's what the Marvin Nuthugging Alliance has become. Let me explain. The MNA has seen the rise and dominance of Chris Paul all season... and they really can't explain why we didn't pick him. Meanwhile, Marvin (who plays a dime a dozen position) floundered most of last season. Paul wins ROY. Marvin is only 2nd team all rookie. Paul goes to play for TEAM USA and was the starting PG. Marvin goes to SL.

So that's pretty much what has happened. Paul looks dominant against international competition. Marvin is dominant in SL.

Here's the reality check. SL means nothing. I have stated that for many years now.. SL means nothing. But for fans who are dying of thirst... strong SL play for them is like a big bottle of water on the table. The fans will tell you how great the water is, how cold it is, how it's better than Coke, Gatorade, Wine, or Dom Perignon. However, it's just Water. It may be good water, but it's still only water.

I'm not saying that Marvin is a bust... I'm saying that he has done nothing to be given the label team savior or even to be thought of as the 2nd option on this team.

Too many people want to describe Marvin based on his potential and not based on what he's really done. If that's the case, then Tim Thomas is probably just as great as Marvin. If we're talking about Potential as though it were real ability.. then Hell, Bender and Skita are good players too!

[Plainview1981]

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When does Potential go out of the window???

He's still 6'10". He's still a good ball handler. He still can shoot from range. He still can rebound. He still can defend.

I guess, you would have said the same about Chauncey Billups and a whole slew of late bloomers.

I don't suggest that his potential went out of the window, I suggest that it was never realized. There's a very fine difference.

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I Think once they've hit the late 20's and you don't really see any real desire to get better that's a pretty good hint. I think Tim Thomas is the same soft player he's always been. Really, why would you believe a 30 year old soft player would get better?

Tim Thomas doesn't seem to have a whole lot of work ethic and 30 year old players with no work ethic aren't likely to improve very much.

He can still rebound? At what point in his career did TT ever give the slightest hint that he could be effective on the boards? For somebody that's 6'10 and 240 pounds, I don't think a career high of 4.9RPG is very impressive.

[Buzzard]

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Actually, I did do a Scottie comparison and unlike I first believed, they don't compare... Scottie was a much better passer/scorer than I gave him credit for...

Tim Thomas however, is a tight fit!

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Pippen averaged 7.9 pts, 3.8 boards, 2.1 ast, and 1.66 turnovers his rookie year. Exactly what would you call a bad rookie season if Pippens' was so much better than what you originally thought?

[Johnnybravo4]

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Are you the Artist this week?

JB, you know I have very little respect for your views on the Hawks mainly because they are not consistent. One weak you are a pessimist, the next you are attacking me for being a realist by calling me a pessimist. The next week you are "the Artist"...

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I am almost never pessimistic. The only thing that I can't stand is negative fans. So most of my negative posts are about that stuff.

[Diesel]

There's no need for me to go through the comparison... But why not try comparing per 48 numbers with Marvin and you will see what I mean. you have to normalize those numbers my friend..

Ah,

What the hell..

Click here..

Hopefully, this satisfies your need to ask dumb things..

Pipp was a much better passer, much better defender. Even as a lowly rookie.

[Diesel]

You never know. Just like Buster Douglass was motivated late in his career and he became undisputed heavy wt champion... Anybody with potential can realize it. It's not about timing, it's about desire. How old was Steve Nash when he became MVP of the league 2 times in a row? Previously, people would have laughed if anybody said Steve Nash and MVP. The potential was there.

What about Chauncey Billups, Ben and Rasheed Wallace? As long as a player has the tools, the potential is still there... i.e. Eddy Curry can still be a dominant Center. However, Desire has to meet tools for potential to be realized.

[thesheedera]

Paul Paul Paul...I thought you wanted Deron?

[Diesel]

Working from the statement by JB:

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I am almost never pessimistic.

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Click1

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FIRE MIKE WOODSON! I mean is there really any reason to bring him back next year. This team sucks on defense, his substitution patterns suck, they don't play inspired ball.

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We need to trade Harrington for Franchise, draft Lemarcus Aldridge, and lets be a playoff team. But we can't do that with Woodson at the helm, regardless of what team we put out there. He is incompetent plain and simple.

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I believe an AAU coach could get us 10 more wins. Any coach who believes starting Royal Ivey is a good idea isn't bright enough to coach my team.

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In other words, a good coach can teach Salim to run an offense, but all the coaching in the world won't give Ivey or Jack an offensive game.

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In fact the most pivotal possession of the game is when ford blows by Ivey for a dunk in the lane. Where was that stellar Ivey defense that I keep hearing about? He is effin garbage and I am tired of debating this S*it with you mindless people.

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If Woody puts Chill at the point he should be whacked right in the center of Phillips...lol

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I could continue, but why bother. Just more of you swinging from Salim's nut set. And bashing Woody and BK... But you're not pessimistic?

[emeans]

Here we go again!!! Dude he hasn't played but one year!! And he played very well at the end of last year.

You can't possibly conclude what he is going to be in the future (superstar or not) THIS EARLY in his career!!

Cut that non-sense talk out. He very much showed superstar qualities and play at the end of the season.

You kill me conclude about peoples careers in their rookie year!!

I have news for you...you probably will not know his second year either!! Give him at least 2 FULL years before you conclude anything!!!!!!!!!

[Diesel]

Go back. Check.

I stated one or the other in just about every case...Most of the time I said either Deron or Paul. Needless to say, I felt it would be important for us to get a PG more than another swingman. Moreover, Marvin doesn't compare to Deron favorably either (52% from three point range down)... Nor does he compare favorably to Felton...

So what's your point?

[thesheedera]

My point is that we're having a discussion about Marvin, and once we get into a rationale discussion about hopes and expectations about Marvin, you can't help but play the Paul card. Paul has nothing to do with this thread, its about OUR team, about where our scoring will come from and who is capable and/or likely to step into a mjor role.

We didn't pick Paul, and even if we had picked a PG, we would have picked Deron, and we still would have been watching Paul become rookie of the year and leading the USA Team over the summer. Forget about it, we didn't get our PG. In hindsight I wish we picked Paul too, but my pick would have been Felton 9 times out of 10 over Paul (and they'll still end up comparable in the end), because I had no idea just how good Paul was gonna be.

But none of that has any effect on who Marvin is and what he means to THIS team, which this thread is actually about.