I know a lot of poster won't like this but

[Peoriabird]

It is starting to be clear to me that Shelden Williams should be our starting power forward and Marvin should be our starting Small forward. Smoove will be a valuable player off the bench but his skills have not matured enough to be a starter on a good team. Still can't finish reliably around the basket. Defense and rebounding remains inconsistent as is his outside shot. Ball handling remains sloppy.. Shelden is just a more consistent player and is better suited to man the PF position over Smoove. As far as Sm. forward position goes, there is not even a contest there. Marvin wins hands down!

[NJHAWK]

I think that is an option Woody will have to consider. Smoove goes into spells where he thinks he is Craig Hodges instead of taking over down low. It might hurt his ego and his dad might be pizzed but there is nothing wrong with Smoove, Chills and Lue off the bench to change pace.

[HawksFan87]

Ha Ha Smoove has one bad game and all hell breaks loose, Marvin had 15 points but he still did'nt have a good game the entire team played horrible last night. Shelden had a good game but come on now he did'nt play well either.

[DavidSomerset]

We HAVE to get Shelden on the court with the way he has been playing defense down low.

My ideal situation though would be this line-up...

Speedy

JJ

Marvin

Smoove

Shelden

It would be so perfect if shelden could move down to the 5 eventually and be our version (albeit not as good, obviously) of Ben Wallace...I really feel like over the course of his career Shelden COULD turn into that good of a defender...Not to mention, he's not to shabby on offense either...

I think that line-up gives us a lot of flexibility and athleticism...Hopefully the extra weight Smoove has put on will help him against PF's.

[Peoriabird]

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Ha Ha Smoove has one bad game and all hell breaks loose, Marvin had 15 points but he still did'nt have a good game the entire team played horrible last night. Shelden had a good game but come on now he did'nt play well either.

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If a bad game from Marvin is 15 points and getting to the line 9 times, 3assist, & 2 TO's that is a good sign.

If Shelden didn't play that well with 10 points and 8 rebounds shooting 50% 1 TO, That's a good sign.

I know that this is hard to accept from some squawkers but Smoove doesn't rebound that well and Shelden does. And his defense is still suspect. Smoove wants to play on the outside which is not what you want from your power forward. There is a reason that teams get off to this great shooting start against the Hawks. He would be a great change of pace forward off the bench.

[Peoriabird]

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We HAVE to get Shelden on the court with the way he has been playing defense down low.

My ideal situation though would be this line-up...

Speedy

JJ

Marvin

Smoove

Shelden

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that line-up definitely won't stop any decent center/power forward combo down low. Lets face it, Smoove is the odd man out of the starting line up not Zaza. Heck, Zaza has out played them both so why would you want to bench him?

[HawksFan87]

Smoove is not the odd man out, Shelden still has A LOT to work on. Smoove wont be replaced any time soon if any player continues to struggle they ofcourse they should sit on the bench but after one bad pre-season game no way it aint even happening.

[DJlaysitup]

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...My ideal situation though would be this line-up...

Speedy

JJ

Marvin

Smoove

Shelden

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Walter wouldn't allow that - remember - Shelden was a bad pick with extra forehead and a poor standing reach. We can't get stuck up on effectiveness.

[gutz]

Quote:

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We HAVE to get Shelden on the court with the way he has been playing defense down low.

My ideal situation though would be this line-up...

Speedy

JJ

Marvin

Smoove

Shelden

It would be so perfect if shelden could move down to the 5 eventually and be our version (albeit not as good, obviously) of Ben Wallace...I really feel like over the course of his career Shelden COULD turn into that good of a defender...Not to mention, he's not to shabby on offense either...

I think that line-up gives us a lot of flexibility and athleticism...Hopefully the extra weight Smoove has put on will help him against PF's.

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I have to agree with you here on this. This has always been my ideal lineup as well. That lineup right there is downright nasty but does lack the size against other teams. I hope we can at least employ this lineup during portions of games because I think they could dominate on both ends of the court with the speed and athleticism. If only Sheldon was 6"10ft. tall it would be bliss!

[macdaddy]

I think you're point about needing Shelden at PF may be right but Smoove has the starting job at SF to lose in my opinion. He makes some mistakes sure but he brings shot-blocking, energy and more experience than Marvin.

I like Marvin but he hasn't shown that he can be a force in a real nba game the way Smoove has on many occasions. At 20 you are still going to have bad games but he showed last year that he can perform as a starter and in crunch time. Marvin hasn't shown that yet. He will I'm sure.

[skyhawk]

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It is starting to be clear to me that Shelden Williams should be our starting power forward and Marvin should be our starting Small forward.

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I got a chance to see the Rockets game and there's no way that Smoove should start over Marvin. I'm basing this on the skillsets they both have and not last night's performance. A frontline of Marvin, Zaza and Shell would be very effective on both ends. Of course, matchups will determine who's on the floor at a given point but I do think that Shel will help tremendously...

[ATLien_]

LOL you have got to be kidding me. Other than last night, Smoove has scored more and shot a higher percentage in every pre-season game than Marvin this year. You Marvin lovers are killing me. I don't understand why you guys want one guy to fail so the other can do well. It's crazy talk. Marvin has played well in the pre season also. They both have played well.

Josh Vs Marvin this pre-season

PPG

12.5 vs 12.8 Marvin is clearly the best player look he average .3 more points a game. LMFAO

FG%

474% vs 442% Yep I see your point Smith is a terrible shooter.

3p%

438%(7/16) vs 1000%(1/1) Everyone knows Marvin will keep this percentage up. And Smith obviously needs to stop shooting threes.

FT%

875% vs 833%

Rebs per

4.30 vs 5.00

APG

2.3 vs 2.2

SPG

.75 vs 1.00

BPG

1.00 vs 1.00

Again there is no basis for these constant rants. These guys are a statistical push as of now. Both look good to me and I want both on the court when possible. Obviously Smooth is going to block more shots in the long run, and Marvin will get to the line more. Why because thats their respective games.

On top of that Smoove has proven he can knock down clutch shots, in real NBA games(not preaseason).

On a side note. I think Claxton will help Smoove more than any other player on this team.

[Yeti]

That gets us closer to our goal of an all 6'9" team. (just kidding) But I think we'll see a lot of combinations including that one. It will be interesting.

I was not a Shelden fan - not because I didn't like him (I had never seen him play), but because I wanted Roy. And then he stunk up the summer league. But Shelden's recent play is making me think he'll be alright. (Anyone have a recipe for grilled crow?) Reminds me a bit of Kevin Willis. Not as tall, but longer arms.

I think it is great that we have all these young guys pushing each other for playing time. Not sure I care who starts (that never hurt Havlicek) - they all deserve time on the floor. We shouldn't see much of a dropoff when someone comes off the bench. Good sign for the Hawks. Now all we need is to see how Speedy fits in.

[Peoriabird]

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I think you're point about needing Shelden at PF may be right but Smoove has the starting job at SF to lose in my opinion.

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Wow! There are so many holes in Smoove's perimeter game that I don't know where to start. Marvin's perimeter skills on offense are far superior to Smoove's that its not even close. I don't think that anyone could make a case for Smoove having better handles, ability to take players of the dribble, inside moves, finishing around the basket or getting fouled, outside shooting over people, shooting off balnce, ability to use either hand etc. Smoove is not that kind of player that can create his own shot like Marvin which is what most Small forwards are required to do. Now, I'm not saying Smoove is not good at other things because he is but Marvin clearly is the better Small forward.

[Peoriabird]

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LOL you have got to be kidding me. Other than last night, Smoove has scored more and shot a higher percentage in every pre-season game than Marvin this year. You Marvin lovers are killing me. I don't understand why you guys want one guy to fail so the other can do well. It's crazy talk. Marvin has played well in the pre season also. They both have played well.

Josh Vs Marvin this pre-season

PPG

12.5 vs 12.8 Marvin is clearly the best player look he average .3 more points a game. LMFAO

FG%

474% vs 442% Yep I see your point Smith is a terrible shooter.

3p%

438%(7/16) vs 1000%(1/1) Everyone knows Marvin will keep this percentage up. And Smith obviously needs to stop shooting threes.

FT%

875% vs 833%

Rebs per

4.30 vs 5.00

APG

2.3 vs 2.2

SPG

.75 vs 1.00

BPG

1.00 vs 1.00

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You left out one very important stat for non-point guards Turnovers

[Iman]

If Coach Woodson decides to take major minutes from Smoove and Marvin by playing Shelden then he is signing his ticket outta here. It may happen due to Woodie's preference for defense. What we need to do instead is keep Speedy, JJ, Marv, and Smoove on the court together as much as possible and run. Shelden, ZaZa, and Lo can use there fouls and some helpside blocks from Smoove to at least slow down teams in the paint versus last year. It will take some time for us to get more accustomed to running and to Speedy but that is our future. I'd rather see Shelden and Lo take big minutes from ZaZa unless he decides he can defend now that he has some help.

[Traceman]

There are 96 mpg available at SF and PF and I'm sure that Shelden will get some minutes at C as well. I don't know who will start but minutes in each game will likely be determined by who plays best when they are in the game.

From what I have seen, Shelden has certainly shown that he deserves his fair share of the minutes at PF. He is CLEARLY a better rebounder and interior defender than either Smoove or Marvin and those were big weaknesses for us last year.

If you look at the boxscore from last night, it is obvious that neither Smoove nor Marvin could effectively rebound with Josh Howard in the game. Because of their lack of size/strength, there simply will be some matchups where a Smoove/Marvin lineup won't be the best way to go. At other times, that lineup will be the best way to go.

Bottom line for me is that in limited minutes, Shelden may not have outplayed either Smoove or Marvin but he has shown that he deserves some PT. Heck, the fact that as a ROOKIE (regardless of his age) he is able to be as effective as either of those guys says that he deserves to play.

[mrhonline]

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There are 96 mpg available at SF and PF and I'm sure that Shelden will get some minutes at C as well.

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Yes, but don't forget to figure Childress' minutes at the 3 in as well. (By the same token, JJ will get minutes at the 1).

[Traceman]

to go around for Smoove, Marvin and Shelden.

The fact that we are discussing the idea that all 3 of these guys might warrant starter's minutes is a good thing in my opinion because in theory, there should not be a significant dropoff when one of them goes to the bench.

[Peoriabird]

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to go around for Smoove, Marvin and Shelden.

The fact that we are discussing the idea that all 3 of these guys might warrant starter's minutes is a good thing in my opinion because in theory, there should not be a significant dropoff when one of them goes to the bench.

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Its not a matter of just dividing up minutes. Its a matter of who goes up against who. The other team's 1st string power forward may be strong for Smoove to rebound against but the back up may not be. This is why it may be better for him to come off the bench.