Please stop defending Smoove so much!!

[Popeye]

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Josh Smith is only 21

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I have seen this crap everytime Smoove does something stupid and has a bad game.

IS this all you guys can come up with while defending somebody???

He is a 3 year PRO and playing like a rookie, that's not good.

So why is everyone talking [censored] about Zaza's defense??

He is 22.

Why does everyone thinks Marvin is a bust???

He is 20

Why does everyone thinks Shelden is a bust??

he is only 23

Why does everyone talk [censored] about JJ not getting to the free throw line??

he is only 24

Andre Igoudala is only about 22-23 and playing better than him.

Luol Deng is only 22 and playing better than him.

Josh Childress is 23 and playing better than him.

This age thing doesn't mean [censored], he is a three year Pro and has played over 27 minutes in 3 seasons.

Stop making excuses with this "AGE" thing everybody knows that he is only 21, but who cares he needs to step up big time. There is nothing wrong with me saying that SMoove needs to improve, i wouldn't trade him now or in future but he needs to step up. Something would be wrong with me if i was saying that Smoove is playing well right now, but he is not and stop defending him because of his age. Andrew Bynum is only 19 and he is playing well.

[skankin_richard]

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Andre Igoudala is only about 22-23 and playing better than him.

Luol Deng is only 22 and playing better than him.

Josh Childress is 23 and playing better than him.

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Wow.... um, no? JJ's been playing at MVP level so far. how are Deng, Iggy and Chillz playing even remotely close to better than him?

and how is Smoove playing like a rookie? other than his threes, he's been pretty damn good: 16 and 13 last night.

[RAHMOR]

Josh Smith is better than he was just he hasn't been consistent this season. He seems to start slow every season which is the same curse Chilz suffered from prior to this season. Watching Josh Smith so far has put into proper perspective how raw he was coming out of high school. If you think about it the only thing about his game that was NBA caliber was dunking. He lucked up with his shot blocking ability but a smart post player knows how to negate this 90% of the time.

I'm not worried that Josh will never be good I just think it will take him longer to be consistent. IMO and observation players usually breakout by their 3rd year(see Chilz) and I think Josh may not have that brekout season until next year or maybe his fifth since he has so much to work on. Unfortunately for him Marvin's skill set is such that this maybe his year and if not I'd put money on him breaking out next year.

[skankin_richard]

What I don't get is why people are trashing him so much this year?

His Stat Line:

14.6 PPG 7.5 RPG 2.4 APG 2 BPG 1.4 SPG

.39 %FG .33 3PT%

thats not a bad stat line by any stretch of the imagination. other than his shot selection, which will come (he's just developed a jumper, so it'll take him a while to figure out when to use it.), I don't see what's so horrible about his game....

[RAHMOR]

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What I don't get is why people are trashing him so much this year?

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We're on a losing steak.

His FG% is low which as you mentioned is because of his shot selection. I think he supposed place on this team is hurting him in the eyes of most fans. He has had high expectations set upon him even sometimes has been called the second coming of Nique. I myself expect alot of him but understand he has a long way to go. I get fustrated during the game but try not to let it carry over after the last second has ticked off the clock. His age or number of years in the league are irrelevant. He's not Iggy, Chilz, or Deng(all of whom played in college btw). He's Josh Smith and he simply needs more time to become what I'm sure he will.

[SmooveTheFuture]

He has better numbers then iggy and Childress just that his Fg% is bad. Also Deng has a better FG% and 2-3 points more a game thats it. So its not like these guys are allstar players in there 3rd years. He is still trying to find his offense game which will come with time. But his defense is pretty good if you ask me. Keep in mind all these guys you mentioned were top 10 picks which Smith wasnt. Iggy has been a big disappointment in my opinon as well this guy was suppose to be alot better then he is right now. He still cant hit a consistent jumper either and also has alot of trouble finishing in traffic. I saw the game last night vs Clippers and he was missing layups and wide open jumpers. Smith has better numbers then him other then assits and fg% but yet this guy is being labled tradeable and the reason we are losing. Sure I wish he made more of his shots but other then that and his dribbling what is else there to really complain about with him. He is a big part of what we are trying to do along with Marvin , Childress and Shelden. I just wish we could have gotten that pass 1st pg that would have made all these young guys alot better. Like a CP3 or Deron Williams who is gonna make the allstar team and has the Jazz at an impressive 9-1. Hopefully next time we are in a position to draft an allstar PG we dont pass up on him.

[RAHMOR]

I wasn't trying to say Deng or Iggy were better I was saying it may be time to stop comparing these guys to him. His learning curve is diffent. I don't think those guys would have made our record 7-1. Look at their teams records. I for one would rather have Josh Smith b/c his ceiling is higher than theirs. You're right about them being top 10 picks. We couldn't have gotten those guys with the 17th pick. It would be either one of those guys in addition to Smoove and minus Childress, who I wouldn't trade for those guys either.

[GoDawgs21]

I am not going to completely trash or defend Smith, but I see why MW24 says he plays like a rookie. He does huge thins ala the put back that helped us get to OT, but there are little things that he doesnt do that makes him like a rookie. Im not trying to be mean but if you play basektball you notice them.

I literally threw my beer down on one possesion late in the game.

The Hawks were in a zone forcing outside shots. Its harder to rebound to begin with in a zone because you cant immediatly body someone up. Thats why you have to give extra effort. Employee 8 shot a ball from the corner in front of the bench. Josh ran out at him and past him, thats good. The bad part. As a shooter espically from that spot you are taught to follow your shot because 9/10 times it is short and comes right back to you. Josh kept running into the bench (not out of control, just lazyly) turned and watched. Walker did the same, he didnt even move, guess what the ball literally rolled out to him. With any effort Smooth could have taken 2 steps and got in front of him when the shot went up and had an easy reb.

The other play was a 4-2 fast break in the 3rd when we were down 1 and going for the led. Josh got the def. reb and tried to go coast to coast. Lue and JJ were on the wings running with him. He has to give that up, more times then not he passes the def leaves and they toss him an alley oop. Instead he dribbles right into JWilliams and he stole it, wated 4-2 break. Woody just stared him down saying you have two PG's on the break give it up.

Next was the defensive end. On a crucial late 4th quarter possession Lue got switched with JJ on Wade. Wade began to back him down on the baseline. Lue played great d with that height advantage. In that spot you have to shut off the baseline. You let him go baseline and there is no help. it was clear as to this happened before a double team from up top was supposed to come. Lue made Wade go to the middle and Josh just watched he didnt come down at all. Woody called a TO immediatlly and reamed Smoove. You cant just be a spectator.

For all those against Shell, there was a perfect example of his defensive knowledge. One foul he picked up was on an iddentical play. he was almost at the elbow and smith was in the middle of the paint. Wade was posting up JJ, Josh just stood there. Shell crashed all the way down, literally knocking Josh out of the way. he was trying to cover up Josh's mistake and he got called for a cheap foul.

Yes you look at the box score and see 16 and 13 but that was in 51 minutes. 0-5 from 3. Im sorry but I can handle 1 or 2 three's, but 0-5 ????? I dont care if your open drive and make the d play you.

I love Smooth and it pains me badly to say this. But I can at least see a glimps of what Bilas was saying draft night. I think its to a far less extent then stated that night. but it seems Smoove is like a rookie mentally checking out of some plays. yes he does amazing stuff, but in the NBA you have to be in every play you cant take time to be not 100%. Little things like above make a world of differences. Thats why he plays likea rookie, he makes one great play then a bonehead one. i think a lot of this has to be the HS factor. You see guys like Chill and Shell always being in the right place at the right time, that isnt luck. Its good basketball sense that the learned from guys like Coach K and Montgomery. Josh is still mentally playing like a rookie at times whcih concerns me in year 3.

[Popeye]

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His Stat Line:

14.6 PPG 7.5 RPG 2.4 APG 2 BPG 1.4 SPG

.39 %FG .33 3PT%

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He is 6-9 245 and shooting threes just like Antoine Walker.

It's not all about stats, he has good stats for a 21 year old even though his field goal needs to and will improve. But what i am saying is what GoDAWGS said is that he makes some stupid ass game decisions and some bad ass shot selection. He is 6-9 245 crazy athletic and standing aroung perimeter like he is a 40 year old that has back problems. I am not sure if this is Woody's fault or his, all i know is that he needs to stop shooting threes and go inside on every play.

Josh Smith's rookie year was the best year in his career. He didn't know how to shoot, but he was more agressive and he was busting his ass of, getting offensive rebounds, dunking on people.

Woody is plain stupid, Why does he give a guy 51 minutes and Shelden only plays 18 min. He as a coach needs to do waaay better sharing the minutes between players. Smoove would play waay better if he sees that Shelden is taking his minutes.

[RAHMOR]

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The Hawks were in a zone forcing outside shots. Its harder to rebound to begin with in a zone because you cant immediatly body someone up. Thats why you have to give extra effort. Employee 8 shot a ball from the corner in front of the bench. Josh ran out at him and past him, thats good. The bad part. As a shooter espically from that spot you are taught to follow your shot because 9/10 times it is short and comes right back to you. Josh kept running into the bench (not out of control, just lazyly) turned and watched. Walker did the same, he didnt even move, guess what the ball literally rolled out to him. With any effort Smooth could have taken 2 steps and got in front of him when the shot went up and had an easy reb.

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I cursed my televion on that play as well. I think this game more than any other helped me put into perspective that Josh Smith is really unpolished and very prone to have spurts where his focus is dismal at best. I think this is the curse of him being only 21. Some people mature physically faster than others. I've seen some girls that when I found out their age of was like OMFG but that's another story. Why isn't it the same mentally? Josh is not mentally maturing fast enough.

In a way it's a good thing if looking at the whole picture. Josh is not franchise player material yet. This slow pace could effect his next contract allowing us the sign him cheaper and have a situation similar to Al Harrington or Ron Artest where their second contract is not worth their value. On the court it's a bad thing because these little things can cost us games and have but no more than anything else we've done(ie all the missed shots, Joe's free throw performance). I don't want him to become the new Al Harrington, or Antoine Walker of this board receiving the blame for our losses. I think his age and lack of experience are reasonable excuses for his lapses as opposed to Al and Antoine who's age and experience were not.

There was a play when I think it was Jason Williams was driving to the basket faked right and Josh went with him, then he went left. Josh recovered got the blocked shot and managed not to foul him somehow. The block was easy for him with his athleticism, not getting the foul was smart basketball. He's capable of playing smarter and with time I belive he will he's just not there yet. On another play JJ made a great pass to Josh and instead of shooting it with 4 seconds on the clock he tried to thread a pass back to JJ but the clock expired. JJ jumped his sh*t(good for JJ btw) and told him to shoot. That was a dumb play by Josh.

I guess the point I want to make is that Josh is going to do dumb things like that probably for at least the rest of this season but I don't think you can say he's hasn't improved from his rookie season. The real question is whether he will eventually mature enough to get past these mistakes. I believe he will because by most accounts he works his butt off in the offseason. He's dedicated to improving his game which is what it takes.

We all disagree on how much Josh has or hasn't improved, we all disagree on what type of player he is, SF/PF, but I think we all agree that he has the potential to be incredible on both ends of the floor. Are we willing to wait for that to happen?

I have more to say but I hate these long post so I'm stopping.

[Blunt91]

Smoove's lack of basketball knowledge also reflects on coach Woodsen. We brought him in to teach young guys like Smoove to play the right way. So it looks like if you are young and don't have muuch or any college or professional experience then Woody can't help you become a better player. We might as well stay away from real young players as long as Woody is heachcoach. In this case Cenk Akyol should stay over in Turkey until coach Woodsen is fired or leaves. Whichever comes first.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Smoove's lack of basketball knowledge also reflects on coach Woodsen. We brought him in to teach young guys like Smoove to play the right way. So it looks like if you are young and don't have muuch or any college or professional experience then Woody can't help you become a better player. We might as well stay away from real young players as long as Woody is heachcoach. In this case Cenk Akyol should stay over in Turkey until coach Woodsen is fired or leaves. Whichever comes first.

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Blunt, do you see Woodson on the sidelines when Smoove makes those mind boggling plays? It's not like Woodson is just letting this kid do what he wants to do. He tries to correct him and teach him how to play the game the right way. But it's like GoDawgs said . . the kid makes a lot of good plays, but he makes a lot of bad ones too. And with this being his 3rd year in the league, you'd think that he wouldn't keep making the same mistakes over and over.

GoDawgs mentioned that Smoove went coast to coast on a play with Lue and JJ running with him and Smoove turning it over trying to split a double team. He actually did the same thing earlier in the game. But on that play, he was able to get around the defender on the left side, and draw a foul as he was throwing up a wild fade-away bank shot from 12 feet.

The 3 on 2 drill that every b-ball player has done since grade school, pretty much tells you to either get the ball to a guard and fill the wing . . or . . you keep the ball and make one of the defenders commit to you or one of the wings, and make the correct decision with the b-ball once you get to the top of the key.

The pros aren't the place to be teaching basic fundamental basketball. I guess Woodson gets the blame for Salim's ballhandling and turnovers as well. ( LOL @ Salim's lazy pass on the Dorrell Wright missed dunk. He acutally had the open shot, but decided to pass it. But it was a weak pass and he turned it over. )

I would love it if Smoove could shoot 45 - 47% FG . . and produce a consistent 13 - 17 ppg while grabbing 7 - 10 rebounds a game.

Consistency is his biggest problem. And it could very well be the thing that could make him be the one that is expendible, especially if Marvin comes back in December, and proves once and for all that he's the better option at SF.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And for those of you who don't think that the 39% FG that Smoove is shooting isn't a big deal, consider this.

He's 2nd on this team in shot attempts. And 37% of his shot attempts are 3 pointers. Contrast that with JJ and Lue, who see 31% of their shots being 3 pointers. That's why Woodson keeps stressing to Josh to take the ball to the hole.

Smoove needs to develop one post move that he can use on occasion.

[terrynoonan]

A real coach doesn't stress things to players, they demand things of them. Think Woody demands much?

[TheDude]

leave the team alone. i will say it again JOSH SMITH IS ONLY 21. you know why people keep saying that? BECAUSE IT'S A VALID POINT. like a previous poster said, he was extremely raw coming out of HIGH SCHOOL so he needs to develop over time.

i'm just happy he has the work ethic to succeed. leave the guy alone.

and leave the coach alone, this is getting ridiculous.

[skankin_richard]

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His Stat Line:

14.6 PPG 7.5 RPG 2.4 APG 2 BPG 1.4 SPG

.39 %FG .33 3PT%

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He is 6-9 245 and shooting threes just like Antoine Walker.

It's not all about stats, he has good stats for a 21 year old even though his field goal needs to and will improve. But what i am saying is what GoDAWGS said is that he makes some stupid ass game decisions and some bad ass shot selection. He is 6-9 245 crazy athletic and standing aroung perimeter like he is a 40 year old that has back problems. I am not sure if this is Woody's fault or his, all i know is that he needs to stop shooting threes and go inside on every play.

Josh Smith's rookie year was the best year in his career. He didn't know how to shoot, but he was more agressive and he was busting his ass of, getting offensive rebounds, dunking on people.

Woody is plain stupid, Why does he give a guy 51 minutes and Shelden only plays 18 min. He as a coach needs to do waaay better sharing the minutes between players. Smoove would play waay better if he sees that Shelden is taking his minutes.

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I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I totally agree that he shouldn't be taking those threes. but you you gotta understand is that the jump shot is something new to him, and therefore something he percieves as flashy and shiny. think of him as a kid with ADD, that just got a new toy. The jumper is his new toy, and he loves it. But, just like the kid, he'll grow out of it soon. Or woody will get him some ritalin.... either way.

[terrynoonan]

Are you serious? What's ridiculous is the thought of going through another sub .500 season. It doesn't have to happen. I live here. I was born here. Do you know what it's like to be a Hawks fan? 9 1/2 out of 10 people you talk to think we are a joke. Every kid thinks we suck. We're almost a dying breed. I like Smoove, but Woodson needs to, among other things, keep him in line. BTW, have you ever played a sport? It's been 7 years. This is getting so old. It's the way we lose. It's coaching. The players deserve better.

[hawkman]

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leave the team alone. i will say it again JOSH SMITH IS ONLY 21. you know why people keep saying that? BECAUSE IT'S A VALID POINT. like a previous poster said, he was extremely raw coming out of HIGH SCHOOL so he needs to develop over time.

i'm just happy he has the work ethic to succeed. leave the guy alone.

and leave the coach alone, this is getting ridiculous.

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Something tells me that if we had won the last few games with Smoove playing the exact same way, this discussion would not be taking place. I put this kind of thread in the same category as all of the Terry, Reef, Toine, Salim, and Harrington "he's the reason why we're losing" threads. Heck, Salim wasn't even playing when half the board was ready to trade him for a 2nd round pick. JS is having his best season so far except for his FG percentage. He's not the reason this team is losing. In fact, I honestly don't believe this team "works" without him. I don't like the three pointers either but that's just one part of his game. In the game I saw last night I saw a guy who was diving on the floor for loose balls, launching the break, coming up with crucial defensive plays, and who was trying to drive against the stingy Heat interior defense. I see a much improved player from last year who is actually trying to contribute to a winning effort. With today's "me first" athletes, that not something this team can afford to take for granted.

[HAWKEYE]

I have posted this before. It is a scouting report written on NBAdraft.net 2 1/2 years ago about Josh's weaknesses. Things have not changed in 2 1/2 years. "Will need to

improve on his overall ball handling. This will aid him in taking opposing players off the dribble.While he has three point range he lacks consistency. Will need to work on shot selection as he gets a little too carried away. Lacks any real post up game to take advantage of mismatches (even in high school). Settles at times for taking outside shots instead of driving to the basket."

Matthew Maurer 4/8/04

When he hangs out on the perimeter he is being left open which allows 5 defenders to cover 4 Hawks. Usually 2 tightening up on Joe. His overall game has not changed since high school even with mismatches with high schoolers a lot shorter and a lot less athletic.

[GoDawgs21]

Hawkman, please note my point wasnt based soley on his 3pt shooting. Yes he does hustle when he wants to. I wrote last week about how he was hustling, but he seems to pick and chose when to do it. That rebound he gave up as a witness on the bench turned into a layup plus 1 for DWade, thats 3 point swing in the last two min. of regulation in a tight game. If your heart isn't in it to hustle in the final 2 minutes of a game then when is it. He literally should have bought a ticket for the play. He just stays in position, not even hustle or anything just not run past the shooter and turn and watch he gets the reb.

Im sorry I dont know if its hi mentallity, or Woody just not getting on him enough and forcing all out hustle I dont know. I was just saying I can plays he takes off. He hustles 75% of the time but in the NBA you have to do it every play.