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Food for Thought

terrynoonan

By terrynoonan
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terrynoonan Newbie

terrynoonan

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Turnovers are something I hate more than almost anything. They directly lead to a possession differential that you cannot overcome. In addition to displaying poor offensive execution with TO's, they show a lack of understanding and respect for the importance of each possession, that reflects poorly on the defense as well. So much energy is wasted "playing hard", when "playing smart" will always give you a chance to win. The link between turnovers and losing should be obvious. Here are the cold numbers for our Hawks.

YR Record TO's(rank in fewest)

93' 43-39 18th

94' 57-25 9th

95' 42-40 4th

96' 46-36 9th

97' 56-26 7th

98' 50-32 9th

99' 31-19 9th

00' 28-54 16th

01' 28-57 27th

02' 33-49 26th

03' 35-47 25th

04' 28-54 26th

05' 13-69 28th

06' 26-56 28th

You can say we need to do x,y,z, but limiting turnovers is the quickest way to win. I know we're playing better, but it's still too many.

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KB21 Grand Master

KB21

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Turnovers are a contributing factor but not the primary factor, IMO. I think things can be more correlated with the team defense being played. I haven't looked up the numbers, but during the Lenny Wilkens years, the Hawks always played good to great defense. Once the team was blown up, the Hawks defense has gone downhill. As a result, so has their record. So, IMO, team defense is the primary factor in the difference between, this team in particular, losing and winning.

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Plainview1981 Mentor

Plainview1981

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Anyone know how many turnovers we had last night? 19. They had 23. What if we only had 8 or 9? Different game. Always is. BTW-Look at the records under Wilkens. I have issues with him too, but give me a break. He was bashing us because we suck. We are a very poorly coached team.

His teams were hard to watch and heartless. That's the way it is... The late 90's Hawks was probably the most boring team ever.

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TheDude Newbie

TheDude

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Anyone know how many turnovers we had last night? 19. They had 23. What if we only had 8 or 9? Different game. Always is. BTW-Look at the records under Wilkens. I have issues with him too, but give me a break. He was bashing us because we suck. We are a very poorly coached team.

Lenny Wilkens was the perfect in-between coach.*

*= coach between the one fired/resigned and the one who they hope will actually do something.

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terrynoonan Newbie

terrynoonan

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I'm not trying to be an @shole here, but I'm sick of people sayin they were heartless. They probably were boring to people that don't play the game. I think that it is naive to say they were heartless. They were under talented. They played a little to close to the vest. If they would have had a Sprewell type, I think it could have been different. The were all heart if you ask me. Are you telling me Smitty, Mookie, Deke, Ty, Grant, etc., were heartless. Please. You don't play the game. Don't talk about heart. It would have been nice to win a title with Wilkens, but wtf do you like about the last 7 years? Please tell me. How can you be heartless when you care about each possession? They did not turn it over, and played great team defense.

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hawkman Grand Master

hawkman

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I'm not trying to be an @shole here, but I'm sick of people sayin they were heartless. They probably were boring to people that don't play the game. I think that it is naive to say they were heartless. They were under talented. They played a little to close to the vest. If they would have had a Sprewell type, I think it could have been different. The were all heart if you ask me. Are you telling me Smitty, Mookie, Deke, Ty, Grant, etc., were heartless. Please. You don't play the game. Don't talk about heart. It would have been nice to win a title with Wilkens, but wtf do you like about the last 7 years? Please tell me. How can you be heartless when you care about each possession? They did not turn it over, and played great team defense.

Exactly. Those were some of the same points I made in the other thread about Wilkens. Love him or hate him, the Hawks played their best basketball under him. Just because he had some negative things to say about the team, which were true to some extent, does not change that.

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AHF Grand Master

AHF

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Quote:

Quote:

I'm not trying to be an @shole here, but I'm sick of people sayin they were heartless. They probably were boring to people that don't play the game. I think that it is naive to say they were heartless. They were under talented. They played a little to close to the vest. If they would have had a Sprewell type, I think it could have been different. The were all heart if you ask me. Are you telling me Smitty, Mookie, Deke, Ty, Grant, etc., were heartless. Please. You don't play the game. Don't talk about heart. It would have been nice to win a title with Wilkens, but wtf do you like about the last 7 years? Please tell me. How can you be heartless when you care about each possession? They did not turn it over, and played great team defense.

Exactly. Those were some of the same points I made in the other thread about Wilkens. Love him or hate him, the Hawks played their best basketball under him. Just because he had some negative things to say about the team, which were true to some extent, does not change that.

They played equally well under Fratello but I do agree that the Hawks teams under Wilkens were far from heartless. I am not the biggest Wilkens fan in the world and do think he had lost his mojo his last few years with the Hawks, but you can't take away from the fact that he did a very good job with the team while he had his core group of veterans centered around Smitty, Mookie and Deke.
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Plainview1981 Mentor

Plainview1981

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Quote:

I'm not trying to be an @shole here, but I'm sick of people sayin they were heartless. They probably were boring to people that don't play the game. I think that it is naive to say they were heartless. They were under talented. They played a little to close to the vest. If they would have had a Sprewell type, I think it could have been different. The were all heart if you ask me. Are you telling me Smitty, Mookie, Deke, Ty, Grant, etc., were heartless. Please. You don't play the game. Don't talk about heart. It would have been nice to win a title with Wilkens, but wtf do you like about the last 7 years? Please tell me. How can you be heartless when you care about each possession? They did not turn it over, and played great team defense.

They shot 40% as a team in 1999. Exciting team? I think not.

Mookie was just a druggie and liked to play golf too much. Never improved his crappy shot either. Teams with heart don't get ran out of the building like they did againest NY.

Talent? Patrick Ewing didn't even play that series. The team never really even gave effort in that series. The franchise has yet to even recover from that joke of series.

Heck, the only reason they got out of the first round was cause they played some crappy one trick pony Pistons teams.

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jerrywest Newbie

jerrywest

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Quote:

Quote:

I'm not trying to be an @shole here, but I'm sick of people sayin they were heartless. They probably were boring to people that don't play the game. I think that it is naive to say they were heartless. They were under talented. They played a little to close to the vest. If they would have had a Sprewell type, I think it could have been different. The were all heart if you ask me. Are you telling me Smitty, Mookie, Deke, Ty, Grant, etc., were heartless. Please. You don't play the game. Don't talk about heart. It would have been nice to win a title with Wilkens, but wtf do you like about the last 7 years? Please tell me. How can you be heartless when you care about each possession? They did not turn it over, and played great team defense.

They shot 40% as a team in 1999. Exciting team? I think not.

Mookie was just a druggie and liked to play golf too much. Never improved his crappy shot either. Teams with heart don't get ran out of the building like they did againest NY.

Talent? Patrick Ewing didn't even play that series. The team never really even gave effort in that series. The franchise has yet to even recover from that joke of series.

Heck, the only reason they got out of the first round was cause they played some crappy one trick pony Pistons teams.

That was Camby's coming out party and that knicks team was Sprewell's. Patrick was really old then and wasn't that good anymore.
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Plainview1981 Mentor

Plainview1981

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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'm not trying to be an @shole here, but I'm sick of people sayin they were heartless. They probably were boring to people that don't play the game. I think that it is naive to say they were heartless. They were under talented. They played a little to close to the vest. If they would have had a Sprewell type, I think it could have been different. The were all heart if you ask me. Are you telling me Smitty, Mookie, Deke, Ty, Grant, etc., were heartless. Please. You don't play the game. Don't talk about heart. It would have been nice to win a title with Wilkens, but wtf do you like about the last 7 years? Please tell me. How can you be heartless when you care about each possession? They did not turn it over, and played great team defense.

They shot 40% as a team in 1999. Exciting team? I think not.

Mookie was just a druggie and liked to play golf too much. Never improved his crappy shot either. Teams with heart don't get ran out of the building like they did againest NY.

Talent? Patrick Ewing didn't even play that series. The team never really even gave effort in that series. The franchise has yet to even recover from that joke of series.

Heck, the only reason they got out of the first round was cause they played some crappy one trick pony Pistons teams.

That was Camby's coming out party and that knicks team was Sprewell's. Patrick was really old then and wasn't that good anymore.

That's true... I remember wondering if they were not better off without Ewing for those playoffs. But still, I was sad by the teams effort. It put a mental block on me when it comes to the Hawks.

I know everybody wants to believe that I'm just negitive about everything, but I once always thought this team was going to win. That changed after that series.
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Plainview1981 Mentor

Plainview1981

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Talent? Patrick Ewing didn't even play that series.

Patrick Ewing did play that series? What were you watching?

Oh. I forgot!

Excuse me. Yes, he did.... I remember that he did miss some of the playoffs that year. Was it just againest the Spurs?

Yes, I did watch the series and I wish I hadn't. Just because I don't remember every detail doesn't mean I didn't watch the series. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at how the series turned out considering how the Hawks were lucky to beat Grant Hill and a bunch of average players.
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AHF Grand Master

AHF

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Quote:

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Talent? Patrick Ewing didn't even play that series.

Patrick Ewing did play that series? What were you watching?

Oh. I forgot!

Excuse me. Yes, he did.... I remember that he did miss some of the playoffs that year. Was it just againest the Spurs?

Yes, I did watch the series and I wish I hadn't. Just because I don't remember every detail doesn't mean I didn't watch the series. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised at how the series turned out considering how the Hawks were lucky to beat Grant Hill and a bunch of average players.

P.Ew. did play against the Hawks that year in the playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/...1999_games.html
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terrynoonan Newbie

terrynoonan

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Quote:

I'm not trying to be an @shole here, but I'm sick of people sayin they were heartless. They probably were boring to people that don't play the game. I think that it is naive to say they were heartless. They were under talented. They played a little to close to the vest. If they would have had a Sprewell type, I think it could have been different. The were all heart if you ask me. Are you telling me Smitty, Mookie, Deke, Ty, Grant, etc., were heartless. Please. You don't play the game. Don't talk about heart. It would have been nice to win a title with Wilkens, but wtf do you like about the last 7 years? Please tell me. How can you be heartless when you care about each possession? They did not turn it over, and played great team defense.

They shot 40% as a team in 1999. Exciting team? I think not.

Mookie was just a druggie and liked to play golf too much. Never improved his crappy shot either. Teams with heart don't get ran out of the building like they did againest NY.

Talent? Patrick Ewing didn't even play that series. The team never really even gave effort in that series. The franchise has yet to even recover from that joke of series.

Heck, the only reason they got out of the first round was cause they played some crappy one trick pony Pistons teams.

So, you WERE a fan? Until I see you at the court, shut up about heart. BTW-What do you like better about the last 7 years?
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