Smoove is no 4!!!!!!!!!!

[exodus]

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In retrospect I should have taken your bet. I also pm'd you and told you that I would play, but not for money. You imply that I would not take the bet and your assumption was right.

This is a lie, Ex

. You know it and I know it. I did choose to guard you. I can't say the same of you. We won a few games together, blowouts in fact, and now you're trying to act like I don't know ball, or have any guts. Whatever, man.

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Where is the lie? you didn't take the bet like i said you wouldn't, and i didn't know how tall you were. I also challenged you to a shooting contest on this site for $100, and again you didn't take it.

Where is the lie? And where did i say you don't know ball? you just make stuff up.

And you contradict yourself. You say "inside out basketball" when in fact Dirk only scores 3.5 ppg inside.

http://www.82games.com/0607/06DAL12A.HTM

compared to 5.1 for JJ

http://www.82games.com/0607/06ATL6A.HTM

If Dirk is a post player than so is JJ.

[TroyMcClure]

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In retrospect I should have taken your bet. I also pm'd you and told you that I would play, but not for money.

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Here is your lie:

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Where is the lie? you didn't take the bet like i said you wouldn't

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You are "implying" that I'm stupid.

Inside out basketball"" refers to dumping it in and kicking it out. I'm not talking about where 82games says a shot came from.

I also mentioned in previous threads, that you posted in, how tall I was.

Again, I offered to take the challenge. You chose not to enter into it once you got here.

[exodus]

Again i didn't lie. I said you wouldn't take the bet and you did't. To me there wasn't any point on playing if it wasn't for money because i would rather play in 3 on 3 anyway.

I did come to the gym with plenty of cash in my pocket though, just in case.

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Again, I offered to take the challenge. You chose not to enter into it once you got here.

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If you want to take the bet i can arrange another Atlanta trip in the future. I will still spot you 8 pts up to 21 by ones. We can up the stakes if you like

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Inside out basketball"" refers to dumping it in and kicking it out

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Exactly, INSIDE being the operative word. The top of the key isn't inside.

Dirk doesn't post inside because he doesn't like contact and isnt strong enough to establish deep position.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL @ Ex. If Dirk would post people up on the low block, he may could average 35 ppg. But because he wants to be a SG, he'll always limit how effective he can be offensively, even though he's a damn good offensive player.

Troy is right when he says that basketball games are won inside-out. But the league is rapidly changing. If you can score from point blank range, that's just as good as scoring from the post. That's why the "points in the paint" stat is so critical for us. It doesn't matter how we score in the paint, just that we get point there, whether it be from post-ups or lay-ups off penetration.

And that's the whole reason why Smith is better at the 4 right now. Because at the 4, he can get to the basket against the bigger PF's that he faces. Defensively, of course Smoove needs work. Offensively, he's maximizing his talent to the fullest.

It's funny. Some people on this board had the audacity to complain about us giving up that bum Boris Diaw, because we didn't use him right, but Phoenix did.

LOL . . last I checked, Boris wasn't a 4. But Phoenix even played that kid at the 5 many times last season. And what made Diaw so effective, was his ability to take big centers off the dribble and get to the basket . . or shoot the ball from mid-range, before the center could rotate to him. Defensively, Diaw was a complete liability against low post scorers. But offensively, playing Diaw at the 4 and 5 spots, is what worked for them. Now that he's playing more at the 3 and the 4, instead of at the 4 and 5, his offense has suffered because he can't score as easily against the 3's. He'll pass the ball off much more now.

And one thing the board hasn't pointed out is this. Smoove has a better chance of learning how to effectively defend in the post, than he does learning how to effectively defend on the perimeter. In the post, all he needs to do is learn how to keep his man from getting too deep in the post, and play good ground defense once his man does get the ball. On the perimeter, this kid will constantly get beat off the dribble by a slasher, because Smoove's lateral quickness isn't the greatest. Chill is a much better lateral defender on the perimeter than Smoove.

Send Smoove to big man camp. Have him watch LOTS OF FILM of Larry Nance. And he'll be a better player because of it.

Last summer, I hoped that Smoove would model his game after Nance, who was a good on the ball defender, a great help shot blocker, and a guy who had the combo game of knocking down mid-range jumpers, grabbing offensive boards, and occasionally posting people up and scoring on them with a jump hook. And Nance was 6-10 bout only 205 - 215 lbs. He was a SF, without great SF skills, but talents that would let him excel at PF.

Nance in his 2nd year in the league:

16.7 ppg

8.7 rpg

2.4 apg

2.6 blk

1.2 stls

55% FG

67% FT

Smoove, so far this year:

15.5 ppg

8.4 rpg

3.2 apg

2.8 blk

1.0 stls

44% FG

68% FT

And his FG% is low, mainly because he still tries to play that SG/SF role . . instead of that SF/PF role. Playing Smoove at the 4, will improve his FG%, possibly up to the 50% range in future years. He may reach 46% FG by the end of the year.

If he keeps playing at the 4, he'll turn from the "Black AK-47" . . to the "modern-day Larry Nance".

Keep the kid at the 4, and hope his career is on par, or a little better, than Nance's.

[exodus]

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And one thing the board hasn't pointed out is this. Smoove has a better chance of learning how to effectively defend in the post, than he does learning how to effectively defend on the perimeter. In the post, all he needs to do is learn how to keep his man from getting too deep in the post, and play good ground defense once his man does get the ball. On the perimeter, this kid will constantly get beat off the dribble by a slasher, because Smoove's lateral quickness isn't the greatest.

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Atlas said the same thing in this thread.

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If Dirk would post people up on the low block, he may could average 35 ppg

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His problem is that he can't handle contact. I had this argument with Dallas fans and they said posting up just "isn't his game". To be fair Dirk may be the best jump shooter in the league, so whatever.

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But the league is rapidly changing.

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It's the rules. You can double team a post player now before he even gets the ball. You can play zone also. Both discourage post play.

The no hand check rule benefits the smaller, quicker players who can beat people off the dribble.

[TroyMcClure]

Again, You are right about Dirk. This thread isn't about Dirk. Atlas threw him in and here we are somehow. lol!

Technically, since I would not accept a bet for money against someone I had never seen, I guess you are correct. I took the bet under stipulations. You offered no counter proposal, etc.

I'm down, Exodus! Let's give the proceeds to Hawksquawk.

I'll even go for both. 50 bucks each? Win or lose, I'm ready for the competition. It should be fun.

Whenever you can make it. We can pm and talk about the best time and place. My gym is nicer than the last one we played in but we have several options. It may take a little work on my end. Maybe some squawkers can help out.

We'll hype this up when the time is right. Maybe we can get a better turnout and play a game of only squawkers after our little exhibition.

It's all good, Ex.

[TroyMcClure]

I guess my feeling is that Smoove will always be a 3/4 and we absolutely must get someone with actual size and strength to play the 5. That's the only way to get away with Josh at the 4. He will always get pushed around down low and draw fouls trying to block shots. He would need a Deke type to offset his size disadvantage, I think. Also, Josh just isn't the type of guy that plays in the other guys shirt. I think you always need to be feeling and pushing to get position as a true POWER forward. That is the whole point of the thread. Oh, and that I think Smoove's version of AK-47 on the wing is pretty nice. Oh, and that Shelden should be playing if we were going to draft him.

[exodus]

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I took the bet under stipulations. You offered no counter proposal, etc.

I'm down, Exodus! Let's give the proceeds to Hawksquawk.

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Stipulations? What were those? You sure make up some strange stuff.

And i will be taking your money for myself lol. When i made the bet initially i thought you couldn't win. Now i know it. The fact that you said i backed down from you on Saturday is hilarious. Dude.... i am 7 inches taller than you for chrissakes.

You probably didn't notice this but the one time i did get the ball on you down low i didn't even try to get to the rim. I just took a turnaround J. The guys on my team got mad at me for letting you off easy like that.

I am not sure when i can get back down there.

YOu need to stop being so thinskinned on this site. Everyone here has opinions, everyone thinks they are right and no two people agree on everything. That leads to a lot of arguments. And if you start a thread like "the season is over" or "Smoove isn't a 4" you have to expect some disagreement.

This "everyone is picking on me" nonsense is weak.

[TroyMcClure]

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Stipulations? What were those? You sure make up some strange stuff.

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Are you just stupid, or do you hope people don't read?

The stipulation was that I would not play for money. It ended there.

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And i will be taking your money for myself lol. When i made the bet initially i thought you couldn't win. Now i know it. The fact that you said i backed down from you on Saturday is hilarious. Dude.... i am 7 inches taller than you for chrissakes.

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We could have played, you chose not to. Period. I also chose to guard you. Something you did not want or ask to do. That is fact, Ex. It is also fact that you did not score on me while we were matched up in the last game. So, the hilarity may be in you comments. You are 7" taller than me and I punked you out of position to do anything.

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You probably didn't notice this but the one time i did get the ball on you down low i didn't even try to get to the rim. I just took a turnaround J. The guys on my team got mad at me for letting you off easy like that.

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No one got mad at you! Talk about making stuff up. Oh, by the way, you took that turnaround because I wouldn't let you do anything else. You shot over me because I'm short. Guess what, I got a hand up and you bricked it.

Should I mention schooling you twice? In the paint, in fact? You fouled me. I personally think I blew the layups, but fouls were called.

Since your character is in serious question and you have no desire to see Hawksquawk profit from this, I'll need to see a ref if you want to play for money. I don't trust you one bit. This is suppossed to be fun, Ex. I was trying to have fun with it. You just won't let that be the case. Why won't you take the challenge without a bet of money? Why should we play if you are going to be such a d!ck? I've already showed up to play you once.(another thing you assumed I would not do...they are piling up)

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YOu need to stop being so thinskinned on this site. Everyone here has opinions, everyone thinks they are right and no two people agree on everything. That leads to a lot of arguments. And if you start a thread like "the season is over" or "Smoove isn't a 4" you have to expect some disagreement.

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I expect disagreement. I don't expect attacks from someone who has offered nothing to this particular conversation(exodus) This thread was about Smooove and traditional post up pf's. You came in and said someone else's argument(that was made up by the "facts" in their head) "makes more since" than one throw away line out of like 50 at least in this thread. If you had something to say, fine. You didn't.

Then you hijacked on Dirk and all. Notice how Everyone else talked about the thread topic?

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This "everyone is picking on me" nonsense is weak.

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Who's making stuff up? No one is picking on me. I have not said anyone was. You are just being an @sshole. One with a real revisionist history.

By the way, you must need a girlfriend or some competition at the park. I don't need to lie about what I can do or could have done against someone 7" shorter than me 700 miles away.

Also, the season was over and I was right. But real fans like you see the "rebuilding plan" right? You see the progress of the young guys. Please.

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I am not sure when i can get back down there.

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I'm not sure that I care. I'll be playing regardless of what you do in your little world. I guess you need internet battles to stroke your ego. I choose to battle with people in the post. Sometimes they are like 7" taller than me. lol!

I may not be the best, but I'm not really afraid of anyone.

[exodus]

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I took the bet under stipulations.

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That is what you said

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The stipulation was that I would not play for money.

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So you took the bet under the stipulation that you didn't take the bet. LOL

And yes two of the guys did get on my case when i took a turnaround on you. They came up to me and were like take it to the friggin basket, that was weak, which was true.

Trying to say you "didn't let me" do anything else is a joke. I shot it as soon as i got it. I didn't try to do anything else.

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I also chose to guard you. Something you did not want or ask to do.

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LOL i was on offense. The defense chooses who to match up with. WTF

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I don't expect attacks from someone who has offered nothing to this particular conversation(exodus) This thread was about Smooove and traditional post up pf's.

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Attack? all i did is say Atlas' argument made more sense than yours. Your idea that real pfs play "50% of the time with their back to the basket" eliminates almost everyone since even players like Duncan and Garnett generally face the basket as soon as they get the ball.

If that is an attack in your mind then you are probably in the wrong place.

[A-town Hawks]

Josh is a beast at the Four. There is no reason for him to play anything else. He can rebound with the best of them. He is a very siolid post defender with all those blocks. He is a huge match up problem for the other 4's in the league. It really helps his FG% when he plays closer to the basket. He is strong even to hold his own down there. And because of him holding his own down there Marvin can shoot the lights out for us at Small Forward. I think that people who barely watch the games still think he is a SG/SF. He cant shoot well enough to play out their full time.

[TroyMcClure]

That all may be true. The only problem is he stands on the wing at least, 80% of the time on the offensive end. Especially now since Joe has been out. Unless we get a banger at the 5, I don't see how Smoove's 8 or 9 boards is going to be enough. If Smoove is our big man, which he is, we are in trouble.

On the defensive end he is not there yet. He allows people to do what they want, always knowing he can swat anything. He gives up way too many easy ones like this.

On offense I think he is more productive as a wing player, regardless of what positional label is put on him. He is just about the only player we have that can drive, draw and dish. His 3 ball is getting better. He's taking it to the rack more.

I understand the idea that we need him in the paint on defense. On offense however, I think he is too versatile to waste in the paint. He doesn't have much of a game down there and it takes away from what he can do to help others score.

[AtLaS]

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I don't see how Smoove's 8 or 9 boards is going to be enough.

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This is so off. Smith is currently #10 in rebounding for PFs in the NBA. And that's if you count Duncan and KG as PFs, they both play a good amount at center.

If he didn't play the 1st 20 games at SF, his rebounding would be right at 9, and he'd be inside the top 10.

You say that if he's our only big man than we are in trouble, dude we need an upgrade at center anyway! Even if Shelden is to be our PF, we still need a major upgrade at center, at least defensively.

[Popeye]

Bottomline is that Smoove is a better PF than a SF. He is not quick enough to guard other 3's and 2's on the perimeter. I think he wants to be a PF because, Why would he add extra 20lbs than? He is 6-9 and about 245. Diesel wants him to be SF only because he can prove some more that Marvin pick was wrong. He thinks that Smoove is playing PF only because of Marvin. Well even if that is right you can't ignore the fact that Smoove is a better 4 than a 3 and he has proven just that since being moved to the PF position. Smoove is not good defensively vs other 4's in the leaugue only because he is young. He let's his man get close to the rim, because he wants him to get the ball so he can block his shot. That's being young and unexperienced, he will learn that. He has to learn that he doesn't have to block every shot, but just contest it and go hard for the rebound.