I have a great TRADE!!!

[cyman3]

"Tony Parker and Dik Novitzky, but overall most Europeans play that sissy ball I see rich Kids in the burbs play. Shoot, cry foul if someone breathes on you to hard, and run around showing how unathletic you can be."

thats almost like saying i dont like black people playing ball cuz of RIDER and ODOM (which isint true, just used as an example). That comment above is just as bad as saying

"american players play that IM-ALL-THAT-MR-SUPERSTAR play i see in the NBA. Win, smoke weed... say sorry to the media and smoke some more (Odom). Then Run around bitching about how they hate playing for this coach or this organization (Iverson). And then they go thinking they all that and decide to miss practice cuz they feel like it (many players, esp RIDER)."

I was wrong to say what i did above and i dont agree that all players are like that. Only used as examples!

[BlackHawkDown]

People keep going on about how comparing Europes best (nowvitzki,Peja etc.) to America's best is unfair. How? I dont compare students at Georgia Tech to Kennesaw State I compare them to students at MIT or Caltech. The simple fact is as I stated the media loves the "great white hope" which is why Europeans (save Tony Parker) get a lot of extra press. But my real problem with them is that they play that sissy ball rich kids, farmboy from Indiana/Iowa and suburbanites play. Jumpshot Jumpshot. Garbage drive to the hole(no dunk), Cry foul, look goofy running up and down the court. I hate that style of ball it is pure garbage. The second the playoffs hit Dirk and Vlade fall apart. Didn't ypou see how dirk turned to Mike Finley to save him when the pressure was on. If the Nba wants to develop foriegn talent they need to focus on Nigeria, there are a lot of players going undeveloped there and a lot of them are ending up in Eurotrash leagues.

Although I think we will agree I would rather have Eurotrash than puds like bowdler,Ostertag and the like.

PS Allen & Smith are good examples of shooters that dont play sissy ball

[cyman3]

Man, i usually agree with u whether im hawksfan1, cyman3, or defense3. But i gotta correct u on this:

"You mean like Peja shooting up the big Airball when the game was on the line? "

Diesel, would u rather have

1)a SHARPSHOOTER on the team that missed 1 important shot badly but makes it consistantly every other day....

2)a BRICKLAYER 364 days a year, and makes 1 important shot in his life?

which player would u want on the hawks? If u ever get this kind of opportunity to select 1 option, do the right thing!

[BlackHawkDown]

What has race got to do with it?

Every European Player plays sissy ball as described (save Tony Parker I actually like him). Name one that doesn't. Now you want to start insulting African American players, why I have no idea, who can beat all the Eurotrash in America or Europe. I DARE YOU to name 3 Europeans that bang inside, make atheletic moves to the hole and dunk with style dont try saying Vlade or Dirk both are jokes in the post and look bad when they dunk. But this is worse of all I used to laugh when Bird dunked, suddenly I started appreciating him after seeing some of these Euros

[cyman3]

So ur telling me that ur major hate on EURO players is

1)too much Media attention for those non-deserving.

2)sissy ball

ANSWERS:

1)I can totally understand why u would think like this. But hey, i think Webber got more attention than DIRK (sure he deserved it, he played better and reached further in the playoffs). By no means do the press think DIRK is the next MJ. He gets as much press as he deserves. Everyone gets Media attention. They also get it when they choke and the games on the line. Its part of the game. High school players who never did a thing get much media attention as well. So far, what did LeBron James do in the NBA? He scored as many points as I did thus far in the NBA (0). Im not saying he sucks, all im saying is that all athletes get attention.

2)Sissy ball? So if all the Euro players were athletic dunkers and not pure shooters, u wouldnt have much of a problem? I like diversity. I think we need both slashers and dunkers in this league. I agree that the game is boring when its all about the shooting, thats why i dont watch WNBA (just a joke guys). But sissy ball?

Gasol taking it strong and dunking on KEVIN GARNETT is not IMO soft sissy ball/rich kids type ball. Thats straight up basketball!

Dunking on a person (Carter on Weis) is just as fun and exciting as watching MJ shoot an "in ur facer" on __________ (fill in the blank with any NBA player). I like both, and we need both in the NBA.

[BlackHawkDown]

Hey don't dis the WNBA I am actually becoming a fan Atlanta could use a franchise. But more importantly I can see where you coming from on both points although I disagree.

PS Some of the WNBA broads are fine. Check out Tamera Stocks (GO Gators)

[cyman3]

"What has race got to do with it?"

- it has to do with everything we're talking about. Euro players are a race of bball players u dont appreciate. That sum it up for?

How many dunkers do u like in the NBA as of now? The common NBA players will appreciate the dunks of the following players

Webber or Martin (allyoop), Oneal (on others), Bryant, Carter, Francis, McGrady, Jordan (they appreciate everything he does, even bricks). I prob left some players out.

And the rest? When other players dunk, to the common NBA fan... its just a dunk - something all professional nba'ers should be able to do.

"I DARE YOU to name 3 Europeans that bang inside, make atheletic moves to the hole and dunk"

- Peja takes it strong to the whole, Gasol fears no one, Nowistki does take it strong and draw fouls. Im sorry that they cant finish the play when they are going towards the whole and get fouled. No everyone is like SHAQ and CARTER. I just named 3 players out of a small portion of NBA players (euro).

Im almost about to give up. Plain and simple- if dunking means everything to u...

lets trade all our players for dunkers. Get Brent Barry here and as well as Vince Carter. Who needs Ratliffs shot blocking when we have dunkers? trade him. he doesnt do spectacular dunks. Trade Terry, cuz i havent seen him do a 360 dunk. Trade Kukoc, cuz hes a great passer but doesnt dunk with style.

If u only like the game cuz of the dunks, i guess im wrong and ur right- u have the right to hate EUROS as they are unfortunately soft as labeled.

BUT IF u are like me and enjoy a varity portion of the game (the blocks, the steals, the money shots, the dunks, the rebounds) then lets not bash on the EUROs.

[cyman3]

where

1)"Now you want to start insulting African American players"

let me tell u something about myself. Im korean, my best friends are either african american or koreans. Those the people i like watching movies or playing ball with. We joke around, play hard, and its fun. Yet my best friend in the world is white. I have absolutely no problems with any races.

tell me where im insulting african american players? As mentioned in almost all my posts here, all my scenarios are used for examples to counter ur messages.

2)"Hey don't dis the WNBA I am actually becoming a fan"

i had a feeling u were gonna say this. therefore i said

"thats why i dont watch WNBA (just a joke guys)."

just a joke, some people dont read the fine print.

all im saying is, if u can appreciate the shooting and dribbling of WNBA players... why not the same with EURO male players?

WNBA players dont dunk (though i heard some can). By no means do i LOVE this euro players. In fact i was sooo happy that we got SAR instead of an unknown GASOL (and still am). All im saying is that these players DESERVE to be in this league and that they can run with these NBA players without looking like fools

btw- ill check out Tamera Stocks on wnba.com after finishing up with this board.

[BlackHawkDown]

I dont dislike euro players (sve Tony Parker) because they are european. I hater sissy ball. Gasol is okay I stress okay, but soft, he reminds me to much of Dirk, same for Peja von stuple. Other than passing skills Euros look goofy on the floor just look at kukoc. The defense is garbage.

[ATLien_]

Cyman I actually do think it is fair to compare Dirk and the gang to. Shaq Kobe etc.. Because IMO we are looking at Europes creme of the crop.

Why should I compare them to guys like Ostertag that are only in the leauge because you have to have a 12 man roster?

If its their best we should compare to our best or at least our good. Not pure Garbage like Shawn Bradley.

I am willing to bet for every Dirk in Europe there are about 20 Chris Crawfords. They just never make it over here for me to see how sorry they are. Only the Dirks do.

[cyman3]

This debate can last forever and we are both stressing the same points.

Im going to live with your opinion and thats the best i can do U do have the rite to have an opinion and im just gonna respect it even though i dont necessarly agree with you.

btw- u still owe me a list of 25 players that are better than Dirk. You're not gonna get away with that. hehehehe

last thing- whats up with u and tony parker? why u so cool with him and not a big fan of other euros? he doesnt have monster dunks (which u love) and his defense is at best decent. so whats up with the love of tony parker?

[Guest]

One shot?Is that all you got to offer in the arguement?Is it all?No

too much Fire power(even though you new the guys was just coming

off a injury but of course you would know that)

No potential?Ok go ask Memphis Vancouver if Reef or Gasol has more

potential?Go ask people who has more potential...Diop(bad feet at

21 years old) or Gasol.Kiki is looking to build his team around two

forgien players,The Kings have done it,Dallas is doing it,Seattle

has some good ones and Tony Parker started for the Spurs and

punished Gary Payton in the first round and equalling his production

despite being a undersized player compared to Gary Payton whom

was supposed to destroy him.

"Because people love to see a player step up when the game is on the line.

There's another thing about the Euro players."

Then way aren't people calling Derek Fisher a top 5 PG?Remember all

the back breaking 3's he hit in the playoffs last year?Maybe it's Bibby's

terrific but yet rare Pure shooting and ability to actually shoot.

" Not all of them, but certainly, their weakness (not adapt to team play,

selfishness) becomes a huge advantage in big games."

That's trash all together.There is a reason the average person doesn't

care about these players.The NBA has few clutch players so this bullshit

line doesn't cut it.

Obviousally looking at the ratings the fans only give a damn about the

Kings and Mavericks.Well besides the Laker bandwagon fans.The Kings

made the Lakers look better as far as ratings go.Nobody gave a damn

about the Lakers last year,and the average fan still doesn't care about

them.Obviousally the two teams people want to watch has alot of

forgein player....hmmmmmm.....

[Guest]

Also with Euros we don't get the trouble making side show

freaks we get with must American players.Smoking dope,

hitting women,no care for the game at all,players choking

coaches,Kg getting paid more money than his life is worth,

players getting aids from sleeping around*cough*Magic

Johnson and expecting american public to care.

It makes me want to vomit when people ride these players

nuts when a good guy and basketball player like Elton Brand

never gets noticed.It is embarassing and a joke.And even

Shareef because he isn't a thug and hip hop junkie that

is dumb and carries himself like a total idiot like a Allen

Iverson.Good role model eh?He only looks like trash you

know.

Which do I prefer?The guys that can actually shoot and

make shots(which is what USED to go on at basketball

games)or the thugs that commit crimes and choke coaches

and give more of a side show that actual NBA entertainment..

I prefer the guys that can acutally compete the objective of

the game.Not Ostertag pushing coaches and the side shows

these other guys do.

There are the american players that are good guys,but alot of

them aren't.They are greedy,selfish,can't shoot,no care for the

game idiots that probably should be running track and jumping

hurdles instead of playing basketball.Remember Tyson Chandler

taking about how he didnt' care about the game last season?

Remember Mike Dunleavy JR trying to fix things to get drafted

were he wants to play?This is about AMERCIAN players and their

more known side shows that anything they do on the basketball

court.Like Kenyon Martin clobbering Karl Malone(a respected player

and seem to be respectable person)because he is a thug.

So while you watch thugs like Ostertag shove coaches around I

think I'd rather watch pure basketball.Athletic ability is nice,but

you don't have to work for it and that is mostly why the American

players play it now.Get paid millions for something you didn't have

to even work for.Like the dumb goof Ostertag...That dude gets paid

millions and couldn't give a rats a** about basketball.

Blackhawkdown talks about sissy.Have you seen these american

players in fights slapping and kicking each other?lol

American players need to get their act together and quit the side

shows they put on and play basketball THE RIGHT WAY.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

EVERYONE

- why are u guys comparing SHAQ, MCGRADY, CARTER with the Nowitski, Peja (im not even gonna try sp his last name), and Parker? Why dont u compare them against the Chris Dudleys or Ostertags? Its not fair to anyone comparing them to a SHAQ or MCGRADY. These guy are exeptional players.

---

This is the crux of my message. Why not compare them?? The only players that will come from Europe are the very best that they have.... Shouldn't they be compared to our very best. If you go to Europe, you will find a whole lot of Ostertags, Dudleys, and Roberts.... However, those guys will never make it to the NBA. So we take Europe's best and then people start to talk about How European leagues are better.... Come on. If you want to compare leagues, compare our best vs. Their best. Like I have said 1000 times, It's no comparison. Our players play a higher level of competition. So when you talk in terms of potential, an American player will have A better chance at being better.

[Diesel]

That's part of the problem, people believe that saying that the rush to getting Euro players is a fad is a put down. The truth of the matter is that there are several players fall into the fad type:

1. 6'9 PGs.

2. Euro Players.

3. 4 Yr College players

4. JUCO players.

5. JT like PG/SGs

6. Program derived players (Duke, Carolina, Michigan St. , Arizona, Memphis, Georgetown, etc)

All of these are fads. Just like the thought of having a "Georgetown C" went out with Jahidai White, so will the thought that a team must be a europlayer.

Just like Babcock had fallen into the fad that every player we draft must be a 4 yr college player, so will the thought that we need a Europlayer to compete.

It's just a fad.

soon it will die down and Europlayers will be just as commonplace as these other groups, but they won't be coveted like they are now.

[Guest]

Hotlanta why do you have to bring up kid beating his wife? Can a

guy make a mistake in his life without having people throw it in his

face forever. Before that he was considered one of the good guys

in this league."

The dude is a grown man.....hitting a women is something you hardly

do by mistake.I don't believe that is one of those"It could happen

to anyone"type of things.It's surely never happened to me.

And my point is that todays american players are more known for

their side show tatics than they are for what they do on the

basketball court.

American players have turned the NBA into a side show..

As far as McGrady goes,he hasn't even got out of the first round

and atleast Peja and Turk can say they have.Even without

Webber they would still be better than the Magic.he is another

example of the side show by opening hsi mouth all the time.

He strikes me as a loser AS A PERSON I wouldn't want to know

him.

[Diesel]

I'd rather have Robert Horry.

You don't hear much from Horry, until May. In May, he wakes up, hits the Big Important shot.

Let's fix your question a little and make it more realistic.

Would you rather have a guy who shines during the regular season but disappears in the Big games.

Or would you rather have the Robert Horry, Croshere who may have crappy reg seasons but will step up and play big when it counts?

[Guest]

If Robert Horry was on any other team he would be a nothing.It's

funny how you would rip a Derek Fisher apart and praise a Robert

Horry.Talk about the real master of the open shot.lol

[Diesel]

First lets fix up some inaccuracies in your talk:

In reply to:

---

No potential?Ok go ask Memphis Vancouver if Reef or Gasol has more

potential?Go ask people who has more potential...Diop(bad feet at

21 years old) or Gasol.

---

1. Memphis didn't choose Gasol over Reef. Memphis got: Gasol, Lo, and Knight for Reef. If you look at the kind of season all three had last season, they made a smart deal. If you want to compare the potentials of both players, Reef is an Allstar and totally dominated Gasol when they played head up. While Reef is about at the end of his potential, Gasol will probably never reach the place where reef is right now.

2. Diop or Gasol. Well, Gasol was choosen before Diop. However, if you want a view of Diop's potential.

http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2001/s/2001/0622/1217444.html

It's funny that people make reference to his feet. Shaq has bad feet. Most Big men have bad feet. However, after he gets his feet together......

http://www.uncbasketball.com/recruiting/class2001/diop.shtml

[Diesel]

Houston.

And he did it then too.

He should change his name to : "Just wake me up in May".