I have a great TRADE!!!

[Guest]

It will likely be Snow and an unconditional first for Odom

Odom's value is down. AND LAC wants a Big defensive PG .

[Guest]

They are a fad.

Sure they get to play more basketball because they are not handcuffed to the idea of School.

Sure they can become pros faster.

However, the extent of how good they are is based on who they play against.

In Europe, they don't play against the best competition. Maybe every once in a while they might play an aging former NBA Vet. But they do not play against the best. That's what set these Young kids apart.

In america, the young kids who are not as fundamentally sound have the opportunity to play against the best. They get to live, eat, and sleep pure basketball at its highe's level.

There will be some American players who don't make it...

However, if you take the best Euro player and compare him to the best American player, it's no contest.

So, what about the draft. It's a fad to take Europlayers high... Just like it was a fad to go after 6'8 PGs a while ago. Teams will still go after these Unsound Youths everytime... Because even if you have to train them, if you can find a KG at the age 17.... You can almost guarantee yourself a dynasty by the time he's 22?

[Guest]

They bring back to the game the thing people want to see...

Shooting and scoring.Screw scrappy play as I'd rather see

the talent to do what the object of the game is and that is

to score and win.

" They get to live, eat, and sleep pure basketball at its highe's level."

The NBA is not pure basketball.Heat beating Boston 66-64 is not

pure basketball.

I have a real problem with today's dumb players.They can't shoot,

they are immature,they have poor attitudes,they are stuck up,

they care about money and nothing else.

I have a real problem with how American players are turning out.

[BlackHawkDown]

Good Points

Diesel if you give up the crazy trades you would be right almost all the time. However I do think Europe has produce a handful of good players i.e. Tony Parker and Dik Novitzky, but overall most Europeans play that sissy ball I see rich Kids in the burbs play. Shoot, cry foul if someone breathes on you to hard, and run around showing how unathletic you can be. From what I have seen of the Asian leagues, which hasn't been much, they are even worse. Maybe Yao Ming will prove me wrong. I have been more impressed with the African and Brazilian players, most have NBA bodies, unlike the Euroleague sissies, but unfortunately do not have good mechanics, more so from a lack of proper development and lack of pro facilities, than from the anything else. Infact too many African and South American players are going to Europe to develop and instead of developing end up learning Euro Sissy ball.

[Guest]

Yeah right,too bad the more "in the know"people don't agree

with you like Geoff Petrie or Don Nelson.

American players lack of skill is starting to show.All the american

play has is athletic ability and that isn't enough.

[Traceman]

Foreign players are NOT a fad and unless there are some MAJOR changes in the way we develop our players, we will see MORE European players in the NBA, not less.

Quinn Snyder hit the nail on the head when he discussed the situation during the draft. Many foreign players get instruction from the best coaches as soon as they show signs of having talent. These players are practicing twice a day, year round and they are competing against the best players around. In addition, they begin playing professional ball at an early age so the talent that they compete against is superior to the talent that young American players compete against. while the young American players are playing highschool bal, they are playing against the best players in Europe. That is a HUGE difference!

Meanwhile, in the good old USA, many of our best players only get the best instruction when they go to summer camps or play AAU ball. Then, they go to college where they can only spend 20 hours per week practicing with the coach DURING the season and they hardly get to practice at all with the coach during the off season. I would love to see us develop National Sports Academies where we send our best players in all sports once they show talent at an early age. The academies would provide the best academic instruction but the vast majority of the students' spare time would be spent focusing on making them the best they could be in a particular sport. Nick Bollitieri's Tennis Academy is very similar to what I would envision but it would encompass more sports.

All that being said, I DO think that our talented and generally more athletic players will eventually catch up with the more fundamentally sound European players and eventually surpass them as players. I think Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry and other youngsters have a bigger learning curve but I think that eventually, they will prove to be outstanding pros. I don't know if they will end up being better than Gasol or not but I do think they will end up being top level players, it will just take them longer to realize their potential.

I still think this country is producing the best athletes and players but the gap has closed SIGNIFICANTLY and unless changes are made that cultivate our talent, I think more foreign players will find themselves in the NBA. The USA may alwas produce the most top level talent but I think that we may see more of the mid level talent slots being filled by the more fundamentally sound players that are coming from overseas.

For clarification, I don't disagree with you that most top level talent will continue to come out of the USA. What I disagree with you about is that Euro players are a fad. I think we will continue to see a large number of Euro players coming into the NBA and that the numbers will actually increase if we don't change the way we are developing our players.

[KB21]

That's just a ridiculous statement.

The difference between the two types of players are what those players emphasize.

In the US, players now-a-days would rather work on their dunking form than practice shooting free throws or practice the 18 foot jump shot. In Europe, no matter if you are 7-0 tall, you practice the fundamental skills of the game. You start working on your shot from 18 feet out and go in. They care less about dunking and more about setting your feet, bending your knees, and reaching into the cookie jar on the follow threw.

The athletic talent is there for the US players, and US players generally have more athletic talent than most European players (though France has put out their share of great athletes and will put out some more).

There is a lack of emphasis on the game of basketball here though.

[Guest]

Let's see.

You have a problem with Shaq, Kobe, KG, Kidd, McGrady, Carter, and many others.

All these guys were American Kids who came out to the NBA undeveloped. You believe that just because a Euro player may be more fundamentally sound than these American players that they are the BEST way to go??

COME ON MaN.

[Guest]

Actually American Basketball don't have to do anything and it will see Euro player favoritism come and go.

Here's why.

Even the very best player from Euro still has a potential that is Mediocre compared to most American players. The thing that will set American players apart is when Players like:

Tmac, Jermaine Oneal, Harrington, DJ, Billups, Zach Randolph, Richardson, etc. start to hit their Potential. As long as they reach their potential, they will always be the hottest commodity in the draft.... There are really about 4 different groups we are talking about:

1. Young Players with undeveloped skills.

2. Players who played 4 yrs of College ball.

3. Euro players.

4. JUCO players.

Each group has it's pluses and Minuses. For INstance.

1. Young players with undeveloped Skills Pluses are:

a. Age

b. Potential.

c. Trainability.

Their Minuses are:

a. Maturity.

b. Lack of Developement.

c. AGE & Money (KG effect.)

Those are the things that a franchise must consider.

2. A Europlayer pluses are:

a. Sometimes Age.

b. Maturity.

c. Fundamentals

their minuses are:

a. Potential.

b. Physical and Mental Toughness.

c. Sometimes a Language barrier.

d. Skill Level & Defense.

What I mean by Potential is that most Euro players are as good as they are going to be. They are similar to 4 yr players in that aspect (Shane Battier). They don't have much room for being much better than they are. They will get a little better by playing against higher levels of Competition but not much better.

Physical and Mental Toughness. What is never discussed about Europlayers is the FACT that they have to play Basketball and ADAPT to new surroundings. That will wear on their Mental toughness. They have to learn how to be homesickness. They have to integrate themselves into American custom.

Skill Level and Defense. I believe that a lot of the Europlayers come over with Bad defense. OUt of all of them that are here, ONLY one plays pretty good defense. Well maybe 2. Turk and Kirilenko. That's the norm. Reason being is because in the Euro leagues, Defense is not stressed. There are many great one on one defenders. Both Toni and Vlade were horrible defenders when they finally got here.

All that said. The young players will be more valued becuase of their POTENTIAL. Their POTENTial is what sets them apart. We're talking about the right mixture of Size and Athletic Ability. Why hasn't the World produced another Shaq? Kobe? T-Mac?

[Guest]

I'm saying that americans play a ugly game cause they are

less talented than they used to be.Athletic ability is some-

thing given to you.You don't even have to work for it.

Supposedly we have the best players,but in some many

games teams struggle to score points.

"You have a problem with Shaq, Kobe, KG, Kidd, McGrady

, Carter, and many others"

You list those guys,but even you have verbally beaten up

on everyone of them besides Kidd.And now you try and use

them as you're case.lol

And yes I do,none of them other than Shaq is a great player.They

just the best of what is left in the(New NBA)And as much as

Kidd is a good player,he is also a wife abuser so he isn't exactually

respectable.

"that just because a Euro player may be more fundamentally sound

than these American players that they are the BEST way to go??"

Yes.I want to see the game return to a point to were people care

about it again.I and most people don't want to see games finish in

the 60's.That is embarassing score of 48 minute game.

Look at the Kings,they are damn lucky the Jazz are pasted their

prime.Despite them being old as dirt their execution gave the Kings

so much trouble.

American players today lack the ability to execute and it has been

killing the NBA and will continue to kill it.American players kill the value

of entertainment in the NBA due to inability to score.The NBA is a

joke right now.I'm hoping changes for the good come sooner or later

or the league will be lucky to exsist.

[Guest]

Basically what I am saying is watching these athletic numbskulls

unable to execute gets real embarassing.Image how bad the

league would be if dunking was illegal cause that is the only way

they can score.Watching "pros"shoot airballs as often as they

do is a joke.

Why do you think everyone is riding Bibby's nuts????Because he

is one of the few in the NBA that can actually shoot the ball.

Not to mention these players are nothing but money hungry bastards.

[Traceman]

Almost EVERY Euro player drafted is taken because of his potential. Lack of potential is certainly not a minus. that's crazy! Nowitzki was a semi disappointment as a rookie but look at him now. Stojokovic has improved by a TREMENDOUS amount since his rookie year. You think Gasol is through improving? Turkoglu? You think Ming was drafted number one overall because he has established himself? Of course he was drafted based on his potential! Same goes for Tskitishvili.

What have you seen in Nowitzki, Stojokovic, Gasol or Turkoglu that makes you question their mental toughness? That is ridiculous! And physically, they are all very aggressive on the offensive end, it's the D that needs to continue to improve.

Language might be somewhat of a barrier but not enough to matter. If American players can go to Europe and play on their teams with the language barrier, why can't their players come here?

Skill level? As a whole, the foreign players I see coming into the NBA are VERY skilled. Most of them are FAR more skilled than the highschool kids that skip college. As far as D goes, I'd rather try to teach Nowitzki to defend than to try to teach Tyson Chandler to play offense.

Have you looked at the foreign players taken in the lottery over the past few years? the size and athletic ability of players like Nowitzki, Gasol, Moiso, Diop, Ming and Tskitishvili are PRECISELY why they were taken with lottery picks!

The world has not produced another Shaq (hell the USA has only produced one), T Mac or Kobe but the world HAS produced Nowitzki, Stojokovic, Divac, Nash, Gasol, Turkoglu and other talented foreign players and I'd LOVE to have any of them on the Hawks.

[beav]

For Wells, Blazers, only the price might differ

06/30/02

JASON QUICK

Bonzi Wells becomes a free agent Monday, and the Trail Blazers guard said he wants to stay in Portland. Team president Bob Whitsitt said he wants to keep Wells a Blazer.

And because of the changing economic climate of the NBA, there doesn't appear to be a team that can use more money to lure Wells away.

Wells, who made $2.03 million last season, is expected to spend most of July exploring his worth on the market. If another team signs him to an offer sheet, the Blazers will have 15 days to match the offer, or let him go.

The problem for Wells is that only one team -- the Los Angeles Clippers -- was under the salary cap last season, meaning that unless a team makes a trade to create cap room, the most Wells can be offered is the mid-level exception, which is expected to be about $4.5 million.

Wells' situation is part of the new NBA, which for the first time will operate under luxury tax rules that penalize teams one dollar for every dollar they are over the salary cap.

"This is the first time we have a hard cap, and the owners are taking that very seriously," Indiana Pacers president Donnie Walsh said. "When owners say they don't want to go over that number, you don't go over. So there are going to be some players who are in difficult situations. There are not enough teams under the cap to make big-time offers."

Because Wells has played the last four seasons with the Blazers, he fits under the so-called Larry Bird exception of the collective bargaining agreement, which doesn't limit the Blazers in what they can offer Wells.

"The only way we wouldn't have Bonzi back is if some offer is so totally out of line that we choose not to match it," Whitsitt said. "That doesn't mean he can't go out and get $8 million, he just has to find a team that has $8 million who says he is worth $8 million. Then if he signs that sheet, we are in a difficult position, where we have to ask ourselves if we can fit him in our structure for $8 million, or is that too much and we have to let him go."

Wells had his best season as a pro last year, averaging 17.0 points after recovering from surgery in April 2001 for a torn anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee.

But unlike some of his teammates, such as Damon Stoudamire, who long before the luxury tax was contrived signed a free agent contract that will pay him about $13 million this season, Wells is caught in a chilly economic climate.

"It has become a very unfavorable situation for players and management," said agent Tony Dutt, who represents Blazers Derek Anderson and Shawn Kemp. "We've come to a point where most teams are borderline, or over, the luxury tax, and so to better a team is very difficult . . . to the point where it is somewhat scary."

Some, such as Walsh, think the economic trend will change how teams reload.

"At some point, the only way to change a team is going to be through trading," Walsh said. "I'm not discounting the draft, but trading is going to become a bigger element of the league."

The Blazers last week filed paperwork to give Wells a 25 percent raise. It is called a qualifying offer, which allows the Blazers to match any offer Wells receives from another team.

For that reason, Whitsitt is confident the Blazers will keep Wells.

"We get the chance to say 'yes or no' at the end of the day," Whitsitt said. "In my mind, I have a real strong idea of what he is worth. But until he has a chance to go out on the market and figure out what his worth is, we won't be able to sit down and work something out. But I'm always ready to talk."

Both Wells and his agent, Bill Strickland, did not return phone calls

[Diesel]

Actually,

My first inclination that the trade might be Davis, Anderson to Philly for Deke might be right. Anderson has been Bitching about getting traded. Portland needs some size to go with Rasheed's game.

Anderson provides Philly with a 2 that can handle the rock. They can make AI a 1.... Defensively and play him off of Anderson and Sometimes McKie.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

Basically what I am saying is watching these athletic numbskulls

unable to execute gets real embarassing.......Watching "pros"shoot airballs as often as they

do is a joke.

---

You mean like Peja shooting up the big Airball when the game was on the line?

In reply to:

---

Why do you think everyone is riding Bibby's nuts????Because he

is one of the few in the NBA that can actually shoot the ball.

---

Because people love to see a player step up when the game is on the line. There's another thing about the Euro players. Only Toni has been able to rise to the occasion and play big in Big Games. I've seen Dirk, Peja, Vlade, Turk, Tony P, and a whole lot of others fold in the big games. American players love the spotlight. They grow up dreaming about taking the big shot. They live for the moment. Not all of them, but certainly, their weakness (not adapt to team play, selfishness) becomes a huge advantage in big games.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

Almost EVERY Euro player drafted is taken because of his potential. Lack of potential is certainly not a minus. that's crazy!

---

The main advantage that Euro players have on Young underveloped american players is that the Euro players play in a system whereby the can develop TOWARD THEIR POTENTIAL faster. That's what those scouts and GMs are saying "hey these guys already know how to play the game".

BUT....

Their level of Potential is NO WHERE near that of an undeveloped American player with great potential.

Let's take a different player:

Shane Battier. He was Totally developed. Played 4 yrs of College. Did everything you were supposed to do. Was the best Sf in a while to come out.

His draft position was dropped because people said: "He's at the top of his potential."

The same holds true for most Euro players.

If you noticed, Guys like Kwame Brown and others went ahead of College's best player because People know that while Kwame is not as good as Shane now, in 3 maybe 4 yrs, it would be like comparing Shaq to Christian Laettner a few yrs ago.

[ATLien_]

Hotlanta why do you have to bring up kid beating his wife? Can a guy make a mistake in his life without having people throw it in his face forever. Before that he was considered one of the good guys in this league.

I guess you have to talk about wife beating when the player is just better than the Euro player.

Like I said in my origional post I don't care where the guy comes from as long as he can play.

Trace lets not group all european players together and just say they are fundamental. The only ones I have seen are the ones in the NBA now. And while most are pretty Fundametal we are talking about 10 to 15 guys to compared too 100's of American players. And that is europes best IMO so i expect them to be fundamental after being weined to play B-Ball since being a toddler. What we are judging the euro players on is their elite. That would be like us judgeing America's education from the people who went to MIT. Not quite fair is it?

I do believe like you said there will be more Euros being middle of the road type players, but I want to see a great one.

And also China is not in Europe and either is Africa so leave Diop and Ming off your list. I will give you Whang Zhi Zhi though LOL. By european we are talking about our KUkoc's and Nowitzki's right?

Let me ask you this do you ever think a European player will be the best player in the league. Well lets cut it down to in the next 20 years, because ever is a long time.

While the Europeans are good on offense usually I have yet tos see one that is as complete a player as a Kobe, McGrady etc...

Hotlanta you are the one that judges player's by what they have won so why are you asking me what has McGrady done? You are the one that says Arod is inferior to Jeter because his stats count. So again I ask what has the Euro players won?

I just try to be consitent I don't give a player the edge because he is American or European. I just want the best player and the best are currently American.

[cyman3]

"I am a immigrant myself so its not a hatred of Europeans that drives my post"

- by no means am i calling u a racist or bigot so lets totally exclude this concept from our debate.

EVERYONE

- why are u guys comparing SHAQ, MCGRADY, CARTER with the Nowitski, Peja (im not even gonna try sp his last name), and Parker? Why dont u compare them against the Chris Dudleys or Ostertags? Its not fair to anyone comparing them to a SHAQ or MCGRADY. These guy are exeptional players.

All im saying is that these players should receive some RESPECT. Lets not call Stoyakavic a total brick layer cuz of his airball in one of his most important minutes. I bet he gets it hard from the press enuf, the fans dont need to help. Would u put ur life into 1 shot? He messed up, but many players have. I remember Bryant airballing couple 3s his rookie year.

By no means do i think Euro players are better than American players (in general). I love the way the bring the PURE SHOOTING back in the game. How many dunkers do we have in this game today? Carter, Bryant, Oneal, McGrady, list goes on.

How many pure shooters are there in the NBA? At this time i can only think of 2, Ray Allen and Reggie Miller. Back in the day there was 1 pure shooter on every team. Wheres all the CHRIS MULLINs and old STEVE SMITHs? Like i said, i love the way these guys bring in the pure shooting. I love the dunkers as much as the shooters.

BLACKHAWKDOWN- u say that Dirk isint a top 10 player. I can easily agree with you. But not a top 25 player, please list 25 players better than DIRK NOWITSKI- thats all i ask!

[beav]

is anderson bitching now? he was one of the few players that didn't bitch about pt during the regular season last year... I kind of doubt that the blazers will trade anderson... my only beef with him him has been that he has been a bit injury prone...

I wouldn't cry if the blazers traded bonzi... he regressed last year IMO... he decided not to play defense early on... he is a deadly shooter when he is on but tends to run a bit in streaks and exhibited little conscience... portland has enough jump shooters and we don't need anymore... I just wouldn't want them to trade him with davis for deke!

By the way don't get the idea from all of this blazers talk that they are anything other than my second favorite team! I pull for them 80 games a year plus the playoffs! (which of course is typically 3 games vs the lakers)....

[cyman3]

"It's about the american players decline in talent level and that IS happening."

- i totally agree. The overall skill is dropping but the athleticism + strength is increasing.

Look at ONEAL for a nice example. He can dunk on anyone. But after 10 ft, he has no skills.

And Diesel, talking about FADS. I too agree that a dramatic increase in EURO players are a fad. But isint it same with NORTH CAROLINA PLAYERS, DUKE PLAYERS, HIGH SCHOOL PLAYERS?

Roshown McLeod, Jonathan Bender, Leon Smith imo are selected with the same FAD as selecting EURO PLAYERS.

These days POTENTIAL is better than ACTUAL TALENT. If the went by talent, SHANE BATTIER would have been selected higher. Its all a fad.

Lets not "put down" the EURO because of FAD, because its unfair. Everything is a FAD these days. They are just one of them.