Stop feeling sorry for yourselves as Hawk fans

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I haven't given up on the Hawks. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I'm going to do what you probably do every year and that is not buy season tickets. I guess the fact that you don't have tickets means you never were much of a fan, at least by your own logic.

BTW, if you want my seats they are still very much on the market. Just fork over $11,000 and they are all yours. Plus, you get a parking pass. If you do buy my old seats you may discover that you actually care about whether or not they are well coached. You may also care that BK blows draft picks as well because when your financially invested it's a little different. Remember, even though you will discover that you just pissed away some pretty good coin that it's only a game. And it's only money. Your money.

I have a hunch that it won't be you that sits in those seats next year.

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$11,000? Nah, you're right. That's a little out of my price range.

But seeing that I live 4.5 hours from ATL, it's pretty much impossible for me to be a season ticket holder. If I did live in ATL though, I'd definitely be one. And I'd be sitting very close to your section behind the players, judging by these season ticket prices. I'd probably be a "blue seat $75 guy". I'm assuming you're paying for more than just yourself though at $11K.

http://www.nba.com/hawks/tickets/0607_Plan...eason.html#full

Pete, we all know the situation with ownership and the coaches. We all know that they may have not made the best possible choice with every decision that they had to make. That has been discussed at length on this board, and around the country in various media outlets. Which is why the constant crying about it is useless.

It's just that when it came to THIS SEASON, the #1 reason why the Hawks didn't come close to their expectations, are the injuries. That isn't very hard to understand. When your top players miss 150+ games of playing time, it's hard for ANY TEAM to overcome that. And it wasn't like we had one guy out for an entire season, and some other healthy body took his place and played injury free. We had people going out for weeks at a time, come back, and then see someone else go down for weeks at a time. Unfortunately for us, we usually had 2 - 3 players down, instead of one.

When you look at this season, it was damn near the worst case scenario for us. We had multiple players hurt from the beginning to the end of the season. Those aren't excuses . . those are facts that can't be disputed.

The only way the Hawks win 45 games this year, is if multiple players improved significantly, and the team gelled to the point that they would become a very tough out at home, while winning around 40% of their road games.

The only way the Hawks win 30 games this year, is if we had players who didn't develop, and we suffered a rash of devestating injuries.

In a typical year, the Hawks should've been somewhere in the middle ( 36 - 40 wins ), with fashes of brilliant and inconsistent play being the theme of the offseason.

Back in February, when I suggested that the team shouldn't tank the season, I said that because I thought it would be good for the players overall confidence going into next season. To me, it was more important to see improvement in JJ, JS, JC, and Marvin as a unit, than throwing away the season, just to get a chance at Oden or Durant.

I was wrong. But not because I still don't believe that.

Now, I guess it was best for this team not to tank, just for the sanity and confidence of the fans who think that all is lost here, if we don't get that top 3 pick.

But it's funny. If we'd won 37 games, people would be crying to the heavens, talking about how we pretty much handed over the "chance" of getting a top 3 pick, to Phoenix. They wouldn't be talking about how the Hawks could improve next season. They'd be crying over the draft pick.

The sad thing about this season came in March, when Smoove was playing so well. People couldn't even enjoy how well he was playing, because they were so fixated on us deliberately losing games, so that we'd have a "good" shot at a top 3 pick.

JJ raised his level of play and made the all-star team. And contrary to popular belief, he should've been voted on there in the first place, especially over a guy like Caron Butler. JJ has gone from a "4th wheel in Phoenix" to a legit "go-to-guy" with us, in just over 2 years. He's already surpassed the expectations of many Hawk fans, and NBA "experts".

Smoove made tremendous strides in his game during the 2nd half of the season, sometimes showing flashes of being an all-star caliber talent. How can anyone not be excited about what he could bring to the table next season?

Marvin at least proved that he can be a legit starter with this team, with more improvement on the horison.

Childress was Childress. A solid player who did his job night after night. The type of dependable player that every team needs.

When I look at those 4, there's no way I can go into next season with my head hanging down, thinking that the Hawks can't make that jump to playoff level. I don't expect any of those players to regress, regardless of what happens in the offseason.

Sure, we're far from having a championship team here. But we're not far at all from having a playoff caliber team here.

We just need to stay healthy.

[Seano]

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Is this a WWE throwdown I'm hearing? If so, I can be had for the right price. I can shoot from 30 feet on in, the sweetest stroke you ever saw. Plus, I get the ball where it needs to go, the Nash of the ATL plagrounds.

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Hahaha. I'll fly down there from Maine and school ALL your asses!

J/K, I actually suck like an Electrolux when it comes to playing hoops. I always have. I was wicked short in school, only like 5'4-5'5. And now I'm only 5'9. But beyond the height issue, I just can't shoot worth a [censored], my reaction times are glacially slow, I just suck at the game. That's why I always stuck to baseball and soccer and hockey. I play a little playground hoops with my boys and their friends, and these kids are literally running circles around me, like they'll fly right past me before I even know what hit me. Nuttin like getting humiliated by a bunch of 10-12 year old boys, but it's all in fun. I just laugh about it, and they do too. We all know I suck.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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It started when 4-1 became 30-52 while teams that didn't have as good a start finished with much better records. In fact, it started before the season started when I and others knew that the team wouldn't compete for a playoff spot (and being only four games back in February doesn't count) ONCE AGAIN. Sure other teams had the horses to be better than ours but that isn't what we should expect from our guys, shouldn't we? After all, we've been the youngest team in the league since...since...

Pro basketball and the Hawks aren't my entire life as evidenced by my posting less than 300 replies despite being here since the forum started. I've had my case of myopia as everyone else (the announcement of the SAR trade comes to mind) but when there are bad moves being made by my favorite basketball team, I'm not the one to say 'everything's okay, relax, we'll be good one day, let's wait on the young guys to jell'. I simply have higher expectations than being estatic about 30 win seasons, especially when this 'process' of BK's has taken forever and a day.

The fact is that this franchise should be much further along in this 'process' than many will admit to. We should at least be talking about the playoff run we're having or had instead of relying on ping-pong balls to bail out the GM for his jacked up draft picks. If that's being 'negative' or being a cynic, then let it be known then.

Spinning excuse after excuse about why our team stinks out loud isn't what this forum is about. It's about sharing our opinions on our favorite pro basketball team, even it isn't what you'd like to read or hear.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

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Dejay. My stance is simple, as well as yours. You blame our woes on management, coaching and ownership. I blame our woes on youth, inexperience and injuries. To me, each side has valid points.

The difference though, is that we can't do a thing about the personnel moves that we did or didn't make in the past. But the players that we have obtained, can still improve themselves to the point that we can still get to that next level.

We can always play the revisionist history game, and say that this player should've been taken, instead of that player. The question now is . . where do we go from here?

People question the talent here, but say that we should be in the playoffs this year, in the same breath.

They say the coach is terrible, but give him no credit for putting guys like JJ, Smoove, and Marvin in the best positions possible to maximize their offense.

It's not a perfect setup we have here. Firing the coach, just to be firing him, is not the solution to this problem. Blowing up the team AGAIN, just because we didn't get results in 2 years, isn't the answer either.

You have to take everything into consideration. To discount injuries as just an "excuse" isn't fair to the current players on this roster. Those injuries have hampered their development as players.

And you can't look at this as an 8 year process. If we were to fire both the coach and the GM, and trade off our young talent, the fan base would have to be patient with the new administration, to see if they can get results. And from a realistic standpoint, when you blow up something, you're not going to get results immeadiately.

If Woody is fired, your first coaching choice better be a sure thing. You don't want to go through a situation like the U. of Kentucky, which pretty much wanted Tubby Smith gone for about 2 years now. Tubby got smart, and left on his own terms. UK and its fans had pipe dreams about bringing in a Billy Donovan or a Rick Pitino back into the fold. They ended up with Bill Gillespie. For UK fans, they wanted change. But that change may not be in the best interest of the program, seeing that Gillespie coaches almost EXACTLY how Tubby coaches . . which means that the style of play will not change at all, only the coach on the bench. And that fan base better hope that it was Gillespie that took Texas A&M to the next level, and not Acie Law.

The same goes for us. We can toss out names like Rick Adleman, Stan Van Gundy, and Paul Silas out there all we want. But if those coaches wouldn't dare come here, we may end up with some assistant coach on a playoff team, who may or may not be ready to step up to the plate and coach an NBA team.

In other words, we may end up with Woody again . . but with a different name.

Trust the young talent we have here Dejay, and hope they stay healthy enough to get us over the hump next year.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I always like reading the "sub-thread" arguments away from the main topic. It's like watching an old episode of "24", with Jack tracking down the terrorists as the main storyline, and his daughter Kim bein the sub-plot, being kidnapped by some lunatic or being chased by a cougar.

What I want to know, is who should I put my money on? What are the Vegas odds on this matchup?

[Packfill]

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They say the coach is terrible, but give him no credit for putting guys like JJ, Smoove, and Marvin in the best positions possible to maximize their offense.

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How again has woodson put these guys in the best positions possible to maximize their offense?

I didn't realize they had maximized their offense especially given the low shooting percentages of Smoove and Marvin.

[Yeti]

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Good lord. People act like the Hawks have hit rock bottom. We're far from a rock bottom team.

We had tremendously back luck with injuries this season, yet, people act like the 30 wins we put up were the BEST that we could do.

Stop the "woe is me as a Hawk fan" crap. This team is far from perfect, but it's nowhere near the worst collection of talent either.

Cry about who we should've taken all you want. That ish does not matter now.

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Wow... Wow... I want to live in your world. We've put up with really poor performance for a long time. There is no reason to expect a change.

1. We have a confused owner group that appear hamstrung because they couldn't work together and then got outfoxed by Belkin. They preach this Pollyanna BS telling us even thought it looks like sh#t and smells like sh$t, its really chocolate ice cream so go ahead and swallow it. Remember the quote "It's not about winning - it's about entertainment."

2. We have a GM who at best is a poor drafter, and seems unable to make trades to help the team. Not that he screws up EVERY time - that would take talent, but the average hawksquawker could do just as well. And he hides from the fans.

3. We used up our salary cap on a couple of broken-down has-beens. So just why did we break up the team?

4. The coach looks lost. He doesn't seem to handle game time situations and hasn't done that well improving the young talent. Yes - they have improved somewhat but that would have occured without a coach. They need a lot more improvement to justify their salaries.

5. We have no quality PG. We need a post game and some defense in the middle. I won't mention the individual players - I still have hope for most of them. But we need significant changes here or the young guys need to escape.

6. Smoove appears unhappy - how long will he stay without some hope of being part of a winner? How long will JJ stick with it?

7. 'We had a lot of injuries - more than most teams.' Okay ... why is that? Did we get frail players? Do they lack the courage and motivation to play through injuries? Is there something wrong with the training? Is it how they are played? Don't just say "It's the gods". It seems more than a coincidence that Speedy and Marvin got exactly the same bone broken. We are the youngest team, but have the most injuries - does that make sense? Why should we believe next year will be any better?

8. Our biggest hope is the draft lottery. The odds are that we give away our pick to Phoenix and get something at 11. But we could get two real good picks or get none at all. It is really disappointing that our best hope of optimism is from how a ping pong ball bounces - not in inspired and creative management or our young talent. -- We could end up with Oden and Law, but we could end up with essentially the same team that broke our hearts this year.

Sorry for the rant but I really want a great team here ... this is so incredibly frustrating. It is like pouring gasoline on a fire everytime we get one of these unrealistic comments from the owners and their supporters. The product sucks ... just admit it and tell us what is going to change to improve it.

[TexasPete]

Great Post, Yeti.

[TroyMcClure]

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Is this a WWE throwdown I'm hearing? If so, I can be had for the right price. I can shoot from 30 feet on in, the sweetest stroke you ever saw. Plus, I get the ball where it needs to go, the Nash of the ATL plagrounds.

I can play for either side, just let me know.

Lascar, I think you have been called out. I wanna see how this develops.

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Funny stuff, TP. Will you play for the MLE? I don't have the time, energy or desire to meet up with everybody that disagrees with me. Not to mention, 1 on 1 determines nothing. It's really laughable. Have I ever said I was the best this or that? No, in fact I compared my game to Chris Childs!

I am trying to get another game up. Just trying to drum interest. It's funny how I'm the only guy that can get a basketball board hyped to, you know, actually play basketball. It's all good. I'm generally not well liked on the court. I prefer it that way.

I said this long ago but... Let's make this a pro to accepting of the ASG team against those of us that are in disgust. I wonder who would win? It would be a lot of fun and would make for great board fodder!

[AHF]

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If Woody is fired, your first coaching choice better be a sure thing. You don't want to go through a situation like the U. of Kentucky, which pretty much wanted Tubby Smith gone for about 2 years now. Tubby got smart, and left on his own terms. UK and its fans had pipe dreams about bringing in a Billy Donovan or a Rick Pitino back into the fold. They ended up with Bill Gillespie. For UK fans, they wanted change. But that change may not be in the best interest of the program, seeing that Gillespie coaches almost EXACTLY how Tubby coaches . . which means that the style of play will not change at all, only the coach on the bench. And that fan base better hope that it was Gillespie that took Texas A&M to the next level, and not Acie Law.

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All I can tell you is that the UK fanbase is pretty much universally estatic at what we have seen from Gillespie. He is diatrically the opposite of Tubby in terms of recruiting, which was UK's biggest problem. I also suspect you will see a much more organized defense and more in shape players. Both coaches are outstanding defensive coaches who really stress that areas and in that respect are very similar. However, the proof will be in the pudding and I think you will see that Gillispie is for real.

Oh - and UK fans wanted Donovan badly but did not want any part of Pitino. What he has done at UL would not be acceptable in Lexington. I am also personally glad they did not choose or end up with (whichever it was) Rick Barnes. I wanted Donovan but given that he has already been interviewing with NBA teams that may be a blessing in disguise. I want someone commited to UK, not someone firting with the NBA.

[TroyMcClure]

Lascar, I've read your posts for well over a year now. That's why I'm calling you a chump. I give people I've never met, talked to or read about, a completely fair shake.

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Well apparently that would include both you and exodus since you're now saying you'll bet with me. But I'm sure for some reason the @sshole part doesn't apply to you or exodus.

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Can you read? Honestly. Exodus made the bet. I just showed up. Also, I never said I would take your bet. I just told you where I play ball. If you want to sniff my jock that bad, just start showing up. The ball can be pretty good sometimes. AtLaS knows.

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Yeah ok. We'll see if you're talking to me like this in real life. I'm sure you go to people you don't know and tell them you know they have no friends. I'm sure Diesel goes around talking in the third person and telling his friends what the Dieselputer came up with. I'm sure Walter repeats the same sentence over and over and over with his friends. As a matter of fact, let's look at your two first posts, I'm sure this is how you talk to people the first time you meet them:

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What are you going to do? Punch me? You tall guys can be such jerks. It's heightism! If you are a prick to me, then I'll be a prick to you. Get it?

I've made like 800 posts. I've only been the way I was in that first post a few times since. I was new to the board and taken aback that anyone could defend BK, on any level, in comparison to Pete. I don't know you and really don't care to. You seem like you lie to yourself about things and I don't associate with that.

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Oh man that's too funny. This isn't a Disney movie. You're either better than someone or you're not.

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I forgot. You're the best player in the world. You always bring your A game, right? Please. If you have a clear height advantage, you can lean on that in a 1 on 1 game. You're a chump. Let's see you ask to guard someone 6 or 7 inches taller than you. I do it ALL the time. I usually wind up playing a little PF because most people shy away from contact. I don't. I like to win. If I'm giving the effort and sweating, I want to win. I've got a very strong feeling you're more of a "pretty" player. You probably don't even have a real picture of what's going on in a game, only seeing yourself.

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The basketball discussion on this board has mostly gone to crap over the past year and I mostly come here to get a few laughs and see the latest news.

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I am so sick of you and all the others with you're "lol"! this and "you guys make me laugh" that. You insult most of the board. I just insult jerks like you. You act like you are too good for the board. Guys like TP and Walter, Atlas, CBA, Exodus, Yeti, EDS, etc. are too good for you. ( sorry I know I left off a lot of very good posters. You all know who you are.)

I saw the other day, in an old thread, where Sturt was taking you to task for being a tool, like 3 or 4 years ago. Some people never change. You are one of those, I guess. I'm done wasting my time with you and I am thrilled that I have wasted your time in any way possible.

Enjoy the upcoming 35 win season, Lascar. I won't.

[TroyMcClure]

Great post, Yeti. Don't you get tired of trying to convince them that 2 + 2 = 4?

[Lascar78]

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Also, I never said I would take your bet. I just told you where I play ball. If you want to sniff my jock that bad, just start showing up.

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What???? I challenged you, and you responded with "You are a loser with no friends. I have plenty. They even play basketball with me. How about you find 4 guys and I get my 4. Let's see who wins. " So now you are welching on that bet too? I should have figured. What's it going to take? You pick your 5 and my 4 teammates? I spot you 20 points? Shooting from half court? Dribbling drill? You make the call with Ronnie Nunn? You tell me. You pick the format where your plethora of basketball knowledge will be able to dominate.

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What are you going to do? Punch me? You tall guys can be such jerks. It's heightism! If you are a prick to me, then I'll be a prick to you. Get it?

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When did I say anything about your height, about punching you, or anything like that? Talk about a Napoleon complex. I don't know your height or what you look like, nor do I know how you know what height I am. Maybe I should clarify. This is the internet, we can't see you.

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I've made like 800 posts. I've only been the way I was in that first post a few times since. I was new to the board and taken aback that anyone could defend BK, on any level, in comparison to Pete.

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Oh yeah, you're usually so polite and calm and collected... Give me a break. I would bet that there are insults in at least 3 to 400 of those posts.

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I don't know you and really don't care to. You seem like you lie to yourself about things and I don't associate with that.

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Whaaaaaat?? I thought this was real life on here? With the number of times you've responded to me you surely know me by now? I don't follow.

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I forgot. You're the best player in the world. You always bring your A game, right? Please. If you have a clear height advantage, you can lean on that in a 1 on 1 game. You're a chump. Let's see you ask to guard someone 6 or 7 inches taller than you. I do it ALL the time. I usually wind up playing a little PF because most people shy away from contact. I don't. I like to win. If I'm giving the effort and sweating, I want to win. I've got a very strong feeling you're more of a "pretty" player. You probably don't even have a real picture of what's going on in a game, only seeing yourself.

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And this is based on what exactly? I dare you to find a quote where I say anything about how well I play other than me challenging you in this thread. You must have me confused with the author of such quotes as "How many games did you lose in youth league or high school? I didn't lose too many. I don't accept losing", "most people shy away from contact, I don't", or even yet "I'm generally not well liked on the court. I prefer it that way. " I'm sure you're an every day Charles Oakley.

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I am so sick of you and all the others with you're "lol"! this and "you guys make me laugh" that. You insult most of the board. I just insult jerks like you. You act like you are too good for the board. Guys like TP and Walter, Atlas, CBA, Exodus, Yeti, EDS, etc. are too good for you. ( sorry I know I left off a lot of very good posters. You all know who you are.)

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So sad when you have to resort to @ss-kissing. All those guys are good posters except for the spam-master general. Pretty much everyone from when this board was a lot better are still around, they're just drowned out by guys posting the same message over and over, trying to polarize the board instead of discussing the real hawks issues. AHF and Exodus are probably the 2 best posters on here. Some guys like Traceman post less, probably because of the decline in quality.

In the past there was no single issue driven by a single poster (and his one or two cohorts) into every single thread so that no other issue can truly be discussed. 95% of the threads on here this season from December on became tank or don't tank when there was no need for it. It was an interesting issue worth discussing, not something worth turning every thread into a Fox news debate with everyone picking their sides and yelling with their ears blocked.

It's pretty simple really, this board used to be about discussing the hawks. Now it's about picking one side or the other and trying to prove the other side wrong.

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I saw the other day, in an old thread, where Sturt was taking you to task for being a tool, like 3 or 4 years ago. Some people never change. You are one of those, I guess. I'm done wasting my time with you and I am thrilled that I have wasted your time in any way possible.

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Yes you just happened to run across a 3 or 4 year old thread where someone was arguing with me and pulled it up instead of responding to the thread where I was schooling you. Talk about jock sniffing. I just HAPPEN to run into 3 or 4 year old posts of people I don't care about too... I'm just curious, how exactly did you just run across a 3 to 4 year old thread? Seriously I'm curious, it's never happened to me.

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Enjoy the upcoming 35 win season, Lascar. I won't.

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Have fun rooting for us to lose.

Just remember, you're the oversensitive pu$sy who blew up for no reason just because I made a passing comment at the exodus bet as a joke. You're also the guy who turned down a 1-on-1 (twice), 3-on-3, or 5-on-5 bet, any time any place. Maybe you can at least stop the "I bet you don't even play ball" routine and go back to rooting against the hawks, and bashing people who root for them, since it's what you do best. Woooooo, the sky is falling!

[TroyMcClure]

Dude, I don't have time for this. Let me say this one last time. I will not bet for money against someone I have never met. I may take said bet if the proceeds go to Hawksquawk. May take the bet, whatever bet it may be. Is this too hard for you?

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When did I say anything about your height, about punching you, or anything like that?

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I don't know where you live, but where I grew up, this is pretty much a threat.

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Yeah ok. We'll see if you're talking to me like this in real life.

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What exactly did you mean? There was certainly a hostile tone.

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I don't know your height or what you look like

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I've mentioned it in more than a few of these threads. The very ones you are trying to chastise me for. The fact that you don't even read my posts, or remember why you think I'm a jerk is why I say something like this:

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I don't know you and really don't care to. You seem like you lie to yourself about things and I don't associate with that.

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What I'm saying is, is that if you think you can act like a pr!ck to me and then be all chatty in another room of the board or something, you are way off base. That's not the way I am. You don't even read my posts, man. Why should I read yours?

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Yes you just happened to run across a 3 or 4 year old thread where someone was arguing with me and pulled it up instead of responding to the thread where I was schooling you. Talk about jock sniffing. I just HAPPEN to run into 3 or 4 year old posts of people I don't care about too... I'm just curious, how exactly did you just run across a 3 to 4 year old thread? Seriously I'm curious, it's never happened to me.

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Get over yourself. I like to check the Who's online screen. There are always great threads from the past showing on the anonymous users. I'm fairly new to the site and this is a good way for me to get a feel for the history of the place. That's how I saw the thread and bumped it.

Lascar, I never root for the Hawks to lose. I wanted them to win. I just knew they wouldn't. I wasn't in the tanking crowd. Again, you don't even read my posts. The only time I've rooted for us to lose is the final reg. season Indiana game that I bought a ticket and sat in the stands for. I wanted Woody to only win 29 and maybe, just maybe, get canned and we could move on... Like I'm doing now.

Selah

[bonethugz]

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I agree northcyde. We should be supportive of this team and not hope for us to lose to get a better draft pick. However if knight has another bad draft I will agree that he needs to go 100%

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i think i do what people do here. i go/watch/listen to hawks games. i have hawks shirt or jersey and i come here everyday. i or them not supportive enough?

[Lascar78]

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Let me say this one last time. I will not bet for money against someone I have never met. I may take said bet if the proceeds go to Hawksquawk. May take the bet, whatever bet it may be.

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First of all you never said you may take the bet if it's for HS until just now. Secondly, that is the weakest cop out I've ever seen (I may someday take some bet for HS bla bla bla). You don't want to bet, fine, just say so.

Texas Pete you can come play with the winners for this bet that will never happen.

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Dude, I don't have time for this.

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Yes you do.

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What exactly did you mean? There was certainly a hostile tone.

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I was responding to "Dude, this is real life! You are a tool. I'm the same person on this board that I am in your "real life"." And my point was that while you're mr hard ass on here I bet you wouldn't be in real life which is why I don't care about the name calling. Everyone's mr tough guy online. And that's fine, but I'm just pointing it out.

Look man, I don't care about any of this. Like I said before, you act like an @ss on here a lot, but I'm sure you're a nice guy in real life. Like I said, I mentionned the bet as a joke in passing because it was funny and relevant, I wasn't trying to start anything, and I didn't have any real problem with you. It's a hawks message board, it's not life or death. Then you started calling me a retard, an @ss, and other names. So be it. You want to argue, we can argue, you want to play nice, we can play nice. It's not like I came in here and called you an @ss or anything, I was joking about the bet which was funny, like it or not.

You're right I don't pay much attention to your posts in general, I don't comb through every single thread and absorb every tidbit of information. I glance over the board and read any threads / posts I'm interested in. You came on here and were generally an @ss from day one so I mostly tuned you out and just scan over your posts.