I've just about decided it's best to trade the #3.

[mrhonline]

I think we can agree that two players are constantly being batted around as the board's top2 choices at #3 - Conley and Yi.

Yet one thing few people are mentioning is that Knight has said he doesn't really want the team to get younger, and guess which players are the most likely to get drafted by the Hawks:

1. A 19 y.o. PG who has little experience vs. top competition without the best big man in college basketball in the last 10 years. His skill set and potential are nice, but...

2. A 22(?) y.o., perimeter-oriented PF who plays in a league where Anthony Miles averages more points per game than Kobe. His skill set and potential are nice, but...

...Neither of these guys are going to be the difference maker next season, and with the pick guaranteed to go to Phoenix, improvement is not optional.

Methinks the Hawks have to package the pick and Speedy.

[gsuteke]

if the Hawks can swing a deal that would obviously be preferable. I'd take Conley at #3 as of today but then again I think it would be better to pick up someone through a trade.

Gasol, JO, the usual dream list.

Indy should move JO and soon. he's got alot of NBA miles on that body. they'd want too much for him though.

[Guest Walter]

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and with the pick guaranteed to go to Phoenix, improvement is not optional.

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...why do you care what pick we give Pheonix. We just pulled the 4th pick from the jaws of Pheonix, what more do you want? But again, why do you care aside from what our record would have to be. Imagine if Yi/Crittenton didn't significantly improve us next season but the following season one was an All-star and the other made the Sophomore game. Would you really complain because of the pick we gave Pheonix I-F we got incredible players?

People being more worried about what pick we give Pheonix than the quality of the players we get just scares the [censored] out of me.

W

[jerrywest]

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and with the pick guaranteed to go to Phoenix, improvement is not optional.

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...why do you care what pick we give Pheonix. We just pulled the 4th pick from the jaws of Pheonix, what more do you want? But again, why do you care aside from what our record would have to be. Imagine if Yi/Crittenton didn't significantly improve us next season but the following season one was an All-star and the other made the Sophomore game. Would you really complain because of the pick we gave Pheonix I-F we got incredible players?

People being more worried about what pick we give Pheonix than the quality of the players we get just scares the [censored] out of me.

W

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That's one reason I don't think BK is the right person to deal with our current situation. He got too much baggage and too little time (1 more year) to put long term goals of the organization as his #1 priority.

[Guest Walter]

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and with the pick guaranteed to go to Phoenix, improvement is not optional.

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...why do you care what pick we give Pheonix. We just pulled the 4th pick from the jaws of Pheonix, what more do you want? But again, why do you care aside from what our record would have to be. Imagine if Yi/Crittenton didn't significantly improve us next season but the following season one was an All-star and the other made the Sophomore game. Would you really complain because of the pick we gave Pheonix I-F we got incredible players?

People being more worried about what pick we give Pheonix than the quality of the players we get just scares the [censored] out of me.

W

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That's one reason I don't think BK is the right person to deal with our current situation. He got too much baggage and too little time (1 more year) to put long term goals of the organization as his #1 priority.

---

Agreed. It's impossible to fix this mess in one year. Nobody we draft will come in and fix it. Anyone who tries to will only [censored] it up further much like BK did last year when he tried to fix it with "NBA-ready" SW, Lo, and Speedy.

This has to be AT LEAST a two year goal. I don't see BK putting his ego aside enough to allow for the potential he could make the right decisions for the franchise and still get fired for it.

BK could [censored] this up in ways we cannot begin to imagine.

Hope ownership is talking to #2 and getting his opinion independently.

W

[CBAreject]

I see it's already been said, but I want to reinforce this because it's my biggest peeve on here right now.

WHO CARES WHAT PICK PHOENIX GETS???

I want to make the playoffs, but it's because I want to see the Hawks compete for the title, NOT out of spite for Phoenix.

We should make decisions that give us the best chance at a championship, not those that save face in the JJ trade. That's mediocrity mentality. If trading the pick(s) makes us better off for the next 5 years, I'm all for it. If drafting 2 prospects is the better road, let's do it and not think about what draft pick Phoenix gets to use. We're not going to be using it either way. It's a SUNK COST.

[coachx]

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WHO CARES WHAT PICK PHOENIX GETS???

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It goes deeper then that. We have been over this train of thought many times. Here is the time to play Devil's Advocate.....again. Both sides of the coin must be looked at. As much as we think its all about the fans its not...its more about the players. The players are the one getting it done, the players lives are affected by these moves. It only affects our entertainment. Read the whole post & should catch my drift.

How many more lotteries is the current roster prepard to wait through before they lose faith in the organization and demand to be traded or refuse to resign.

Some fans can be patient and are willing to play the lottery game as many times as it takes until you finally hit gold.

Players are not that way. We see the frustration Kobe is going through. Every player in the league feels this frustration when their GMs do nothing to make the team better in the now and continuously get younger and younger saying wait till next year EVERY SEASON. Next thing you know your 30 and YOUR team turns its back on you. You think Kobe (29) cares about the upside of their 19 year old center. Of course he doesn't. He sees Bynum as a chip to get Garnett or some one who can help him now. You think when he resigned with LA they told him the roster we get after the Shaq trade is what we are going to stick with ? Of course not or he would have never resigned.

Now the Lakers may hit rock bottom if the best player in the world does not forgive and forget his GM.

You think when JJ signed with us some promises or statements were not made about getting him a quality guy to play with ? You think JJ does not feel the same way as a Kobe but just chooses not be a team cancer about it ?

If Chills, Marvin, Smith, and Johnson don't get to sniff the playoffs there is no way any of them resign with us and could demand a trade or become locker room problems. The mentality of losing spreads like a agressive cancer. That is the same route the Clippers took. It was not the draft that saved the Clippers, it was them trading their picks for a known commodity, Elton Brand, that got them out of the mess the current Hawks are in now.

Be careful... being too patient may lead to the end of rebuilding project #1 and the begining of rebuilding project #2.

I don't want to be having Grandkids by the time we get to the playoffs.

Would drafting another foward at #3 not send a message to the other 7 fowards on the roster? You think they would be happy with that? You think a player can play to his potential and be a good locker room presence when they read their names in trade rumors every day?

If we draft YI that is what will happen. What kind of continuity and chemistry would be going on in that locker room? Who ever is the PG would have a tough task of not picking favorites out of the 8 fowards on the roster when only 2 can see the court at a time. I would hate to put a rookie PG in that locker room and say hey, be the leader of this disfuntional group... that is for sure.

[bonethugz]

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and with the pick guaranteed to go to Phoenix, improvement is not optional.

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...why do you care what pick we give Pheonix. We just pulled the 4th pick from the jaws of Pheonix, what more do you want? But again, why do you care aside from what our record would have to be. Imagine if Yi/Crittenton didn't significantly improve us next season but the following season one was an All-star and the other made the Sophomore game. Would you really complain because of the pick we gave Pheonix I-F we got incredible players?

People being more worried about what pick we give Pheonix than the quality of the players we get just scares the [censored] out of me.

W

---

he's right. the suns are getting our pick no matter what. just concenrate on what's best for the team. before this post, i was going to make a thread about a trade idea with houston. i was thinking maybe we can ask them for t-mac. i know what kind of player he is. he is a player who can lead you to the playoffs and that's it(remember i'm not here to talk about t-mac). can we somehow get him for our number 3, 11 and marvin(or other player(s)) for t-mac(i'm aware of the salary thing, that can workout someway) without losing joe johnson and josh smith? i think that's reasonable but, yea maybe we need to look long term

[Dejay]

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It goes deeper then that. We have been over this train of thought many times. Here is the time to play Devil's Advocate.....again. Both sides of the coin must be looked at. As much as we think its all about the fans its not...its more about the players. The players are the one getting it done, the players lives are affected by these moves. It only affects our entertainment. Read the whole post & should catch my drift.

How many more lotteries is the current roster prepard to wait through before they lose faith in the organization and demand to be traded or refuse to resign.

Some fans can be patient and are willing to play the lottery game as many times as it takes until you finally hit gold.

Players are not that way. We see the frustration Kobe is going through. Every player in the league feels this frustration when their GMs do nothing to make the team better in the now and continuously get younger and younger saying wait till next year EVERY SEASON. Next thing you know your 30 and YOUR team turns its back on you. You think Kobe (29) cares about the upside of their 19 year old center. Of course he doesn't. He sees Bynum as a chip to get Garnett or some one who can help him now. You think when he resigned with LA they told him the roster we get after the Shaq trade is what we are going to stick with ? Of course not or he would have never resigned.

Now the Lakers may hit rock bottom if the best player in the world does not forgive and forget his GM.

You think when JJ signed with us some promises or statements were not made about getting him a quality guy to play with ? You think JJ does not feel the same way as a Kobe but just chooses not be a team cancer about it ?

If Chills, Marvin, Smith, and Johnson don't get to sniff the playoffs there is no way any of them resign with us and could demand a trade or become locker room problems. The mentality of losing spreads like a agressive cancer. That is the same route the Clippers took. It was not the draft that saved the Clippers, it was them trading their picks for a known commodity, Elton Brand, that got them out of the mess the current Hawks are in now.

Be careful... being too patient may lead to the end of rebuilding project #1 and the begining of rebuilding project #2.

I don't want to be having Grandkids by the time we get to the playoffs.

Would drafting another foward at #3 not send a message to the other 7 fowards on the roster? You think they would be happy with that? You think a player can play to his potential and be a good locker room presence when they read their names in trade rumors every day?

If we draft YI that is what will happen. What kind of continuity and chemistry would be going on in that locker room? Whoever is the PG would have a tough task of not picking favorites out of the 8 fowards on the roster when only 2 can see the court at a time. I would hate to put a rookie PG in that locker room and say hey, be the leader of this disfuntional group... that is for sure.

---

That's what I've been saying since I've been here. Some fans have the patience to wait it out, no matter how many more appearances in the lottery this team has to make. That theory simply doesn't work with me and it certainly doesn't with the players currently on the roster. That process didn't work in Golden State and it didn't in Chicago once MJ left for good. Sure, we can add another youngster and hope he becomes something in 2-3 years, only to find that Smith, Childress, Marvin, and maybe even JJ are wearing other uniforms because they're sick of waiting on BK's 'process' to bear fruit. Then what? What's the gameplan then?

How many times you think those guys hear from their peers about playing for a 'real team' once their deals run out? We have to show our guys that this franchise is deadly serious about being a player in this league or they'll surely leave or want out.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

[DrReality]

Some of the first words out of BKs mouth: we're going to look at a lot of trade options. And there have been several writers say that there will be a flury of trades on draft night. And further that a lot of this hinges upon the Hawks.

I think the info posted about how BK is between a rock and hard place is for real. That being said, I hope he approaches this draft differently and brings in mature talent. If that is the case, we have a good shot at the playoffs next year. If not, I think we are still a year or two off.

[AtlHomer]

DrReality, before it's all said and done, i believe many on this board will come to realize that will need to be done in order for us to make the playoffs next year. Getting younger will not help the team to achieve those goals, regardless of quality of the players at #3 & #11. Like several are saying, I believe one pick should be used to help secure a big man and the other used to select a PG. Someone who was drafted in the past 3 years will probably be traded to help get that big man.

[pound4pound]

We could be talking about the Franchise itself moving. Whispers are abound about that David Stern wants the next professional basketball franchise to be in Las Vegas. The ASG are hemmoraging money and can't keep this up with poor ticket sales and no playoff money. BK has put us into this position and has to get us out.

This third pick, the young forwards we have collected, the big names available and the expiring contracts we have on the roster, we have to get an ALL-STAR PG or Center. I love Conley at three but we really need more than even that. Gasol - yes. Bibby - yes. Gasol and Bibby.........

I am not a conspiracy theorist - but if you go down the path of reprecussion of a continious rebuilding project - you do find yourselves in the Las Vegas discussion. Some franchise is moving there.

[mrhonline]

My point is that I don't believe Knight & Co. have enough time left to put a winning team on the floor to justify a "project" pick.

As I've said many times, what I think is best for the team is completely irrelevant. I'm no "fan in a vacuum."

[BusBoyIsBack]

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...Neither of these guys are going to be the difference maker next season, and with the pick guaranteed to go to Phoenix, improvement is not optional.

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I disagree.

Although I don't think Conley is worth the 3rd pick because of what we will settle for at #11, and although Yi has his work cut out for him adjusting to the speed and strength of the NBA I think both players are SIGNIFICANT upgrades over what we have now and because of that they WILL make an immediate difference.

Add that to the fact that I believe core players on this team will improve next year in Smoove and Marvin and I could care less about Phoenix having our pick next year because we would be a playoff team for sure.

A playoff team that would be one of the youngest teams if not the youngest in the NBA mind you.

If we trade the 3rd pick for a slightly above average player just to get better fast I think it's a huge mistake.

Making the playoffs alone would save BK's job and I think we don't need to try to get a quick fix guy to meet that objective.

I just hope he has the guts to keep the pick.

Trade the 11th and get a vet PG if you have to.

But don't trade that 3rd pick. Not in this draft.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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2. A 22(?) y.o., perimeter-oriented PF who plays in a league where Anthony Miles averages more points per game than Kobe. His skill set and potential are nice, but...

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Also, I wouldn't call Yi's game "perimeter-oriented" that would be a guy like Dirk or especially Bargnani who lives at the 3 point line. The best thing about Yi is he has a mentality of attacking the basket which is why if he's going to be compared to any International prospect it's Pau Gasol.

As far as this whole Anthony Miles thing, the guy averaged 27.8 PPG last year.

And that somehow takes credibility away from Yi Jianlian huh?

Well how about the fact that just about every year in the last 5 years the leader in college basketball has had just as much points if not more than that per game.

And just like Anthony Miles most of these guys wouldn't sniff an NBA team.

So should I take away from the credibility of college basketball?

[exodus]

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I think both players are SIGNIFICANT upgrades over what we have now

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Who is Yi a significant upgrade over?

[AHF]

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2. A 22(?) y.o., perimeter-oriented PF who plays in a league where Anthony Miles averages more points per game than Kobe. His skill set and potential are nice, but...

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Also, I wouldn't call Yi's game "perimeter-oriented" that would be a guy like Dirk or especially Bargnani who lives at the 3 point line. The best thing about Yi is he has a mentality of attacking the basket which is why if he's going to be compared to any International prospect it's Pau Gasol.

As far as this whole Anthony Miles thing, the guy averaged 27.8 PPG last year.

And that somehow takes credibility away from Yi Jianlian huh?

Well how about the fact that just about every year in the last 5 years the leader in college basketball has had just as much points if not more than that per game.

And just like Anthony Miles most of these guys wouldn't sniff an NBA team.

So should I take away from the credibility of college basketball?

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College basketball is not entirely comparable to the CBA because they are organized very differently.

College ball has several different levels of play and most of the guys you are talking about are from lower level conferences that don't play against the BCS leagues.

The BCS leagues are an entirely different level and the scoring leader among BCS leagues is much more meaningful than someone from the Sun Belt.

The CBA, in constrast, is structured more like the NBA where it is a league of teams that compete against eachother and there is more of an apple to apple comparison than with the players you are talking about leading college ball in scoring.

[BusBoyIsBack]

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College basketball is not entirely comparable to the CBA because they are organized very differently.

College ball has several different levels of play and most of the guys you are talking about are from lower level conferences that don't play against the BCS leagues.

The BCS leagues are an entirely different level and the scoring leader among BCS leagues is much more meaningful than someone from the Sun Belt.

The CBA, in constrast, is structured more like the NBA where it is a league of teams that compete against eachother and there is more of an apple to apple comparison than with the players you are talking about leading college ball in scoring.

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I'm just saying people keep using that Anthony Miles line as if to imply the CBA is just as poor competition if not worse than High School. But in actuality it's more like a D-1 Mid-Major as far as competition.

Oh and as far as the BCS schools, Duke is about as major a conference as you can get and JJ Redick who REALLY looked like Kobe Bryant in college in what was supposed to be one of if not the single toughest conference in college basketball, looked like a star night in and night out.

But it doesn't exactly look like he will pan out just like all the other great Duke guards.

That's why I think people should focus less on competition and more on the players skillset. Because I don't care how great a shooter JJ Redick was, if you examined his game closely one could see with his size and lack of athleticism he was going to run into problems at the next level.

Yet with someone like Yi Jianlian, if you examine his skillset you will see a guy who would has athleticism for a big man that would be considered elite even in the NBA which is why his game is more likely to translate.

That's the reason why someone like Carmelo Anthony makes it in the NBA and someone like Mike Sweetney doesn't.

Both went to major schools in major conferences, but one has a game that translates more to the next level.

[AHF]

I don't think anyone would confuse Kobe and JJ based on JJ's college game since he did basically nothing other than hit perimeter jumpers but I agree with your basic premise here. The success of marginal players in the CBA shows the lack of talent in the league but does not mean that Yi's success is meaningless or that he is anything but a very good prospect. It just means you can't rely on his numbers to be all that meaningful projections of NBA numbers.

[exodus]

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Duke is about as major a conference as you can get and JJ Redick who REALLY looked like Kobe Bryant in college in what was supposed to be one of if not the single toughest conference in college basketball, looked like a star night in and night out.

But it doesn't exactly look like he will pan out just like all the other great Duke guards

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Redick was hurt and missed summer league, training camp and preseason. When he got the chance to play he did well, he just didn't get many opportunities.

Here is what the Magic fans had to say about him. Some of these fans didn't want him in the first place.

Redick