Darko Time

[jagstang76]

I'm with Sothron on this one. First off, getting Dark would give us 10 deep - 2 quality players at each position. Second, we have no idea how well Smoove could play at SF because he's been forced to play bigger. I think it only helps us that he can play bigger, but he could become much more productive if he had a chance to focus on one position. Plus, he can stay trim and athletic at SF, whereas he has to beef up more to play PF. Horford and Sheldon can hold down the 4. Zaza and Dark could take care of the 5. Speedy and Law have 1, JJ and Chill at 2, and Smoove and Marvin at 3. Of course there will be flexibility to play big or small depending on the situation, but that's the beauty of it.

The way to get Dark is to trade AJ or Lue to DEN for their TPE. That would give us enough space to probably get Dark. The only trick is the contract length.

[pound4pound]

Something tells me that Darko is going to get something like $45 million over 5 years - Maybe $48 million over 6 years based upon his youth and still unrealized potential. Any NBA team in the leauge can just loft on the extra year to take Atlanta out of the bidding - and will if we ever get serious.

[mudderfudder77]

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Something tells me that Darko is going to get something like $45 million over 5 years - Maybe $48 million over 6 years based upon his youth and still unrealized potential. Any NBA team in the leauge can just loft on the extra year to take Atlanta out of the bidding - and will if we ever get serious.

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Only a team with Bird Rights can offer 6 years. In this case the Orlando Magic.

If the Magic have renounced Darko, they are no longer able to do a S&T, meaning Darko is at the mercy of the teams with cap room - or he will have to accept the MLE.

Word out of Chicago is that if Nocioni truly wants to play in Memphis, Pax would consider renouncing him to clear cap space to make a run at Darko.

[mudderfudder77]

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If they renounce, then they still have an opportunity to do a S&T. It becomes less likely because of cap room concerns, but renouncing a player doesn't mean you can't still S&T.

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My bad - you are absolutely right.

[bfwolf]

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This is a situation of where people talk about BK conserving cap space, but there are two specific deals that BK completely wasted cap space. Lorenzen Wright was a worthless deal that is about $3 mil. And then the AJ trade did nothing but add to our back-up PGs and add on $3 mil. So right there, that is $6 mil and if you were to add that on top of the cap space we already have...BANG! Darko would be here. Or we could use that extra cap space for something else.

I could see someone argueing the Lo deal because he did take a large fall in production from his last year with Memphis to his first with us. But, I don't know how anyone could put a legitimate argument about the AJ trade. We gave up a 0 cost asset for a $3 mil duplication of our backup point guards. It is also very possible that if we didn't make the AJ trade we would have enough cap space to get a hold of Darko, but I haven't looked up the exact numbers and I haven't heard any word on what the new cap number is.

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Completely agree, Hawksfanatic. There were a number of us lambasting that trade at the time...the Hawks' chances of making the playoffs were so low at that point that all it was going to do was hurt our cap situation, lose a 2nd round pick in an insanely deep draft, and possibly cost us in the lottery. What a dumb trade, yet at the time there were people defending it saying that we could always move AJ for a 2nd rounder whenever we wanted to get him off the books.

OK, EVERYBODY. WE NEED AJ OFF THE BOOKS. ANYBODY OFFERING A 2ND ROUNDER FOR HIM? ANYBODY? BUELLER?

Exactly.

[Guest Walter]

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The way to get Dark is to trade AJ or Lue to DEN for their TPE. That would give us enough space to probably get Dark. The only trick is the contract length.

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but if we don't have to then I'm for that too (then later move said player for a future pick since we can't afford all these prospects soon enough).

I think the contract length can be addressed this way. To Darko and his agent: After a 4 year deal you will be entering your NBA prime at age 26 (since you started so young your "prime" starts earlier) and will command a 6-7 year deal for the highest dollars then. I would allow Darko an opt out after either his 2nd or 3rd year. That way if he thinks his value has increased so much he can test the waters early. It's not ideal for us to give him a player option, but I think he would want it. A 28 year old center has a far less chance of getting a 6-7 year deal. That would be my pitch at least.

W

[Guest Walter]

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Second, we have no idea how well Smoove could play at SF because he's been forced to play bigger.

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Exactly. And he's been forced to play "up" with less talent. When JS is playing Pf he has MW beside him. When he plays Sf he has SW next to him. Frankly, it's impossible to assess JS's Sf ability when he would seem to play it so little and when he does the team's talent at the adjacent position drops.

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I think it only helps us that he can play bigger, but he could become much more productive if he had a chance to focus on one position.

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I'd rather err on the side of bigger also. We could still play alot of a smaller lineup but wouldn't be FORCED to and have NO OTHER OPTION but to play small. Right now we can play SMALL or smallER. Boy, those options sould real good. Who all wants solely the option of a small or smaller interior lineup raise their hands?

[Hoosier]

I don't think so, I'm not going to read the Labor Agreement right now, so I'm not positive. But I know under the old agreement if you did not submit a qualifying offer, therby renouncing a player, then a team could not re-sign that player again under any circumstances until a couple of months into the next season. This keeps teams from getting under the cap just to sign plaers like Lewis, then re-signing someone like Darko.

That is why Darko's agent was so livid with Orlando, they just screwed him. He can now look at just a few teams to sign with.

You all are forgeting that Woodson does not want him here, and I agree with him on this. Anyone signing him to a mega contract will rue the day. Stick with making sure we can sign our own players.

[Buzzard]

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Exactly. And he's been forced to play "up" with less talent. When JS is playing Pf he has MW beside him. When he plays Sf he has SW next to him. Frankly, it's impossible to assess JS's Sf ability when he would seem to play it so little and when he does the team's talent at the adjacent position drops.

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Smoove never posting anyone up and never dribbling past anyone is the problem.

When MWill is in and Somoove plays against bigger players, he should be able to get his shot off anytime he wants to. Either by creating space and/or taking the bigger slower player off the dribble.

When he plays against the smaller player; he should be able to post him up anytime he wants to.

If Smoove had either game; a post game or a take someone off the dribble game, he (and we) would have offensive matchups. Problem is, he does not. He can run, board, he can jump and slam, and he can block weakside shots; but he cannot take anyone down the baseline and he cannot post anyone up.

Quit making excuses about when he has to play with this person or that person. You say he is all star caliber; well, I do not hear anyone making these excuses for Paul Peirce. Hell, most big time players score more than they should when they are on a weak team. Not the other way around!

By your aurgument, Paul Peirces game would suffer if he played next to Shelden or MWill and we all know that is a crock of [censored]. He needs to work on his offensive game period. Your aurgument is just a lame excuse and makes no sense at all...

Smoove is a better PF tham SF right now. Chances are he always will be as well. It takes a lot less co-ordination to turn and shoot. This is why players that are 7ft tall and weigh 260lbs can do this; than it does to dribble and move/run; that is why players that are 7 ft tall and weigh 260lbs have a hard time doing this...

Give Smoove a chance to excel and quit making lame ass excuses...You sound like his mother.

[Hoosier]

Like I said before, I don't think so. Maybe your up on the verbage more than I am, but your interpretation just does not sound right to me. The way I see it, it is clear cut, they either give him the QO or they renounce him in which case he is no longer their player to trade.

Maybe one of the in-house legal experts, like AHF, can weigh in with a ruling?

[Sothron]

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I'm with Sothron on this one. First off, getting Dark would give us 10 deep - 2 quality players at each position. Second, we have no idea how well Smoove could play at SF because he's been forced to play bigger. I think it only helps us that he can play bigger, but he could become much more productive if he had a chance to focus on one position. Plus, he can stay trim and athletic at SF, whereas he has to beef up more to play PF. Horford and Sheldon can hold down the 4. Zaza and Dark could take care of the 5. Speedy and Law have 1, JJ and Chill at 2, and Smoove and Marvin at 3. Of course there will be flexibility to play big or small depending on the situation, but that's the beauty of it.

The way to get Dark is to trade AJ or Lue to DEN for their TPE. That would give us enough space to probably get Dark. The only trick is the contract length.

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Can you imagine a roster that would be a legit 10 deep rotation? It would be amazing to have a team that deep. We would be much more ready to handle injuries if we got creamed by them like we did last eyar.

[Hoosier]

Hawksfanatic, I do not know what #36 has to do with what our discussion is about. Maybe you do not understand what is at stake here for Darko and his agent? If you want to pull up something, pull up what happens when a team fails to give a player on an ending rookie contract, a QO.

An article in the Orlando Sentinel spelled it out yesterday. They said that Orlando can trade another player away to get enough under the Cap to sign Darko, and then Lewis. But that this is only a slim possibility, and that the chances of them then being able to trade Darko and receive compensation, are then slim. That is why his agent was so pissed, Darko could very likely have to settle for only the Mid-Level.

Also, you will find out soon enough that the Hawks can go over the Cap to sign there own players, so it not necessary to trade away half the team to sign JS.

[DrReality]

ORLANDO - Hoping to clear enough salary-cap space so they can retain center-power forward Darko Milicic, the Orlando Magic continued sign-and-trade negotiations Friday with the Seattle SuperSonics.

The Magic have already convinced small forward Rashard Lewis, 27, to sign with a five-year, $75 million deal with them on Wednesday. Now, Orlando is looking to maneuver so that it can hang on to the 7-foot Milicic to fortify the frontline

[Hoosier]

That's not the article, it is from Thursday : "Magic might want Darko back despite agent's ire". For some reason I cannot link it.

[AHF]

From everything I have read on the litigation, hawksfanatic is 100% right on this.