For those worried about the lack of extensions.

[exodus]

NO

If a team does clear space they are more likely to be targeting someone else.

So are going to make up some more nonsense to try to back up your RFA position or have you given up?

[Diesel]

No.. I have made up nothing. How were we able to match Koncak's offer from Detroit??

We have your position on Record now Ex... I look forward to seeing you giving the "Well i was mistaken" line later on in the offseason when Smoove becomes a target!

[mudderfudder77]

Quote:

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No.. I have made up nothing. How were we able to match Koncak's offer from Detroit??

We have your position on Record now Ex... I look forward to seeing you giving the "Well i was mistaken" line later on in the offseason when Smoove becomes a target!

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Well - technically Atlanta didn't "match" the Pistons offer. Atlanta offered a 6yr 13.2 million deal, as opposed to the 1yr 2.5 million offer sheet Jon had signed.

[exodus]

Quote:

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No.. I have made up nothing. How were we able to match Koncak's offer from Detroit??

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Shaq got offered more money to stay in Orlando but still left for LA.

He had a choice players no longer have. it isn't complex.

Quote:

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We have your position on Record now Ex... I look forward to seeing you giving the "Well i was mistaken" line later on in the offseason when Smoove becomes a target!

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You mean the way you admitted that your Harrington position was nonsense? You kept saying how important his Bird Rights were because of the extra year and higher raises. Then he signs a 4 year deal.

[Johnnybravo4]

Hey has anybody heard this from Chad Ford?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?pa...antaPreview0708

[Diesel]

Come again?

Koncak was offered 4 years 13 million to play for the Pistons and the Hawks matched.

That's what happened.

[exodus]

Quote:

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Come again?

Koncak was offered 4 years 13 million to play for the Pistons and the Hawks matched.

That's what happened.

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What you don't have the mental capacity to grasp is that Koncak could have left if he wanted to, just like Shaq did.

[Diesel]

Exodus said:

Quote:

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There was never right of first refusal. Sure a team could offer the same amount but the player had the choice to leave anyway.

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Well, looky.. The internet was working!!

Quote:

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Refusal Rights Impede Pact

By SAM GOLDAPER

Published: September 29, 1987

LEAD: Negotiators for the National Basketball Association said yesterday that they have offered the players' union three different proposals to liberalize the right of first refusal on free agency, one of three major stumbling blocks in the way of a new labor agreement. They said that each time, the players rejected their offer.

Negotiators for the National Basketball Association said yesterday that they have offered the players' union three different proposals to liberalize the right of first refusal on free agency, one of three major stumbling blocks in the way of a new labor agreement. They said that each time, the players rejected their offer.

The proposals, which were again discussed yesterday at a two-and-a-half-hour meeting at the St. Regis Hotel in Manhattan, were again rejected by the players, who are seeking complete free agency, along with elimination of the college draft and salary cap.

''Unlike pro football, we in the N.B.A. do not have compensation such as draft choices or money on free agency,'' said Russ Granik, the executive vice president of the N.B.A. and its chief negotiator. ''All we have is the right of first refusal, and if an old team doesn't match an offer to a free agent, it loses the player without compensation. We have even offered to liberalize that, but we have been told by the players to stop making proposals unless we are ready to drop the right of first refusal completely.''

Granik described the proposals as follows:

* A team would lose the right of first refusal to a free agent unless it has offered him a contract based on his salary the previous season. The old team did not have to do that under the old agreement.

* A team would lose the right of first refusal unless it agreed to keep the player for at least one season after matching an offer.

In the past a team could match an offer sheet and then trade the player to the team that had made the offer or to any other team.

* A team could no longer get compensation from the new team by offering not to exercise its right of first refusal, as was the case in 1984 when the Knicks gave the Dallas Mavericks two draft choices for not matching an offer sheet to Pat Cummings.

Under the proposal, a team could only match the offer or lose the player without compensation.

Granik did not say when the league owners had made the specific offers.

In yesterday's discussions, the owners also offered to guarantee that the average salary would rise from the $510,000 they say it will be this season to at least $600,000 for the 1988-89 season.

''The players listened,'' Granik said, ''but it did not help us make a deal.''

''We discussed all three restraints that we are seeking to eliminate, and the owners refused to make any changes in the draft and the elimination of the salary cap,'' said Larry Fleisher, the players' general counsel. ''With regard to their proposals to liberalize free agency, they are meaningless. Just a bunch of words. Our players have lived with the right of first refusal for seven years and it has not worked. There has been very little movement.

''For example, as to their proposal dealing with the trade, any free agent in the past could could get a one-year, no-trade clause if they could get an offer sheet. So the proposal was worthless.

''As to the proposal that a team has to offer a salary based on last year to retain first refusal, a player who earned, for example, $100,000 a year before he became a free agent, but could earn $500,000 as a free agent, would still be restricted. That's why we are still nowhere in the negotiations. There is nothing new in those proposals. They offered them to us months ago when we first began our negotiations.''

No date has been set for the another bargaining session.

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Poor Ex doesn't his ass from a hole in the ground. And worse, there are others falling into that ditch of ignorance.

[exodus]

Quote:

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Published: September 29, 1987

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That was 10 years before Shaq left Orlando.

The problem is that the players eventually DID win the battle. That is why we have UFA's today. Duh.

What was the compensation that the Magic got when Shaq left?

After all they offered more money so they should have been compensated.

[AtLaS]

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If a team does clear space they are more likely to be targeting someone else.

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Why wouldn't a team go after a 21 year old who is already producing GREAT numbers and doesn't have an injury history? Josh will definitely be a target next offseason unless he completely sucks this year.

[mudderfudder77]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Published: September 29, 1987

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That was 10 years before Shaq left Orlando.

The problem is that the players eventually DID win the battle. That is why we have UFA's today. Duh.

What was the compensation that the Magic got when Shaq left?

After all they offered more money so they should have been compensated.

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Diesel is arguing CBA rules from 20 years and 5 CBA agreements ago. I'm not sure why.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

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Diesel is arguing CBA rules from 20 years and 5 CBA agreements ago.

I'm not sure why.

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The answers can be found in some of his previous threads! I'll give you a hint...

[exodus]

Quote:

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Quote:

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If a team does clear space they are more likely to be targeting someone else.

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Why wouldn't a team go after a 21 year old who is already producing GREAT numbers and doesn't have an injury history? Josh will definitely be a target next offseason unless he completely sucks this year.

---

It is a numbers game and centers are more valuable to most teams. Okafor and Biedrins are going to be RFA's. Then there are Deng, Gordan, and Iggy.

That is 5 players. Smith is only one player. Therefore if a team clears space it is more likely that they are targeting one of the other 5. i don't see why that is so hard to understand.

[jerrywest]

Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Published: September 29, 1987

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That was 10 years before Shaq left Orlando.

The problem is that the players eventually DID win the battle. That is why we have UFA's today. Duh.

What was the compensation that the Magic got when Shaq left?

After all they offered more money so they should have been compensated.

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Diesel is arguing CBA rules from 20 years and 5 CBA agreements ago. I'm not sure why.

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So what? If it serves him right, some Presidents use pre-constitution feudalistic laws to argue.

[HawkNJersey]

Why do we overhype other teams player and undervalue our own? I live in the Philly suburbs. Philly has every intentions of making a run at Smoove. One of the Philly players, Louis Williams maybe? Don't quote me on that...said it, himself.

We have real problem on our hands and it could get worse, if he continues to develop.

[exodus]

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I live in the Philly suburbs. Philly has every intentions of making a run at Smoove.

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And Philly is the team we expect to make a move on Smith.

They already have the cap space and a need for Smith.

Diesel is talking about other teams clearing cap space to target Smith.

[TexasPete]

If Philly signs Smith after the year we can match the offer. I know that's a tough thing to understand for some.

[AHF]

Koncak was signed by the Hawks and offered by Detroit in 1989.

The CBA you referenced above was the CBA in effect through 1988. At the expiration of the CBA, the NBA players association filed an anti-trust lawsuit against the league to allow unrestricted free agency. The lawsuit failed but the negotiations that followed produced a new CBA that allowed for unrestricted free agency and right of first refusal.

Quote:

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In 1988, the NBPA settles the lawsuit by signing the Bridgeman Settlement Agreement, bringing true, unrestricted free agency to the NBA — the first unrestricted free agency in any major professional sports league. The Bridgeman Agreement loosens other restrictions, including reducing the college draft from seven rounds to two rounds. Free agency is protected with strict anti-collusion provisions. The terms of the Bridgeman Agreement become incorporated into a six-year Collective Bargaining Agreement. Larry Fleisher, General Counsel of the Players Association since 1963, resigns. Charles Grantham becomes the Union’s first Executive Director.

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http://www.nbpa.com/history.php

The Hawks never used a right of first refusal to keep Koncak. Instead, after Cak received the Pistons' offer, the Hawks came back over the top with the god-aweful contract that turned the Cak from a solid rotation player into Jon Contract - the man who showed how free agency could lead to ridiculous bidding wars.

[Johnnybravo4]

What if Smith is pissed and says don't match or I won't report. That is how you end up with stupid sign and trades.

[HawkNJersey]

i understand that...

I wouldn't call it, clearing out just for Smoove. But every year, teams out of the race clear space. Every year, the season begins with few teams with cap space and the trade deadline happens. It may or may not happen. There are fewer free agents changing teams... than yesteryear. We better be very afraid. Especially since Philly choose not to sign AI to an extension, yet.

I just think, we are selling Smoove short...when we assume noone values him enough to make a move. Smoove has created a buzz. We expect Smoove to continue to get better. The problem is, if he gets too much better...he may out price the Hawks. Yes they "could" match but "will" they? Somethings gotta give. Marvin's contract is coming soon. We will not be able to afford everyone.